What's the correct thing to do?

[TBY-Paul]

On Saturday, my wife and I, were aboard the 20:25 Cardiff to Reading FGW service.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C47230/2014/07/12/advanced

Shortly after coming out of tunnel between Bristol Parkway and Swindon (Chipping Sodbury Tunnel?) something hit the window beside us. I'm only guessing, but I think we were shot at by someone using an air-rifle or similar. What ever hit the window didn't "appear" to penetrate the glass, but the outer pane of the, laminated, glass cracked into a mottled pattern with a hole the size of a 50p piece in it. I wasn't close enough to the impact point to tell for sure.

At the time I told the wife to clear the fold-down table "just in case" the window "popped "out (She was in the window seat)

I'm not sure who told the Train Manager or when, but the train stopped at Swindon as normal, but when we got to Didcot Parkway the train manager appeared, and some engineer type crew descended on the train to inspected the glass from outside.

At first the Train Manager asked us, and the passengers in the three other rows of seats nearest the window, to move to other seats in the carriage.
We could see someone prodding at the glass, making the hole bigger, so the laminate could be inspected. After about 5-10mins the decision was made to empty the carriage (coach C) as well coaches B & A.The TM informed us First Class was being de-classified, should we wish to move down there. We choose to just move into coach D, as it would have involved a long walk to the front of the train, and we only had one more stop to go.

Because of the decision to lock coaches A, B & C out of use, it would appear it was quite a serious incident, and now two days after the incident I was wondering what should I, or anyone else nearby, have done at the time the window was hit.

Would it have been appropriate to push/pull the emergency button or similar? Is there a way to contact the TM that does not involve walking through an un-known number of coaches, which due to disability would not be an easy task.

I'm not really sure what, if anything should have been done. I know it's unlikely to ever happened again. But it would be useful to know.

 

[455driver]

If its only the outer panel that is broken then there is no danger to people inside the train and the remnants of the outer pane would just need taping up to prevent bits of glass falling out. There might have been a speed restriction imposed on the train of 100 mph but I cant remember as nothing I drive goes that fast.

That incident sounds as if people were afraid of their own shadows rather than deal with it sensibly, 3 coaches locked out of use for one broken window is plainly ridiculous!

 

[GadgetMan]

If its only the outer panel that is broken then there is no danger to people inside the train and the remnants of the outer pane would just need taping up to prevent bits of glass falling out. There might have been a speed restriction imposed on the train of 100 mph but I cant remember as nothing I drive goes that fast.

That incident sounds as if people were afraid of their own shadows rather than deal with it sensibly, 3 coaches locked out of use for one broken window is plainly ridiculous!

I would guess that the other coaches may also have had broken windows. School holidays more than likely.........

 

[thelongestroad]

3 coaches locked out of use for one broken window is plainly ridiculous!

If I was working that HST I would not want half my passengers separated by a coach locked out of use.

 

[najaB]

That incident sounds as if people were afraid of their own shadows rather than deal with it sensibly, 3 coaches locked out of use for one broken window is plainly ridiculous!

In theory only one carriage was 'out of use', the problem is that you would have to pass through it to get to coaches A and B so they were unusable. I'm sure the main concern was what would happen if the pane failed at speed - even safety glass can do damage when it's flying at 100+ mph.

 

[TBY-Paul]

The thing was, at first it seamed the plan was to just to move the eight people sat next to the window, it was only after the engineer had a close inspection and prod at the glass from the inside that things changed. I didn't hear all the conversation, but judging by the body language and tone I got the feeling it was a little more serious once the engineer had looked at the glass from the inside.
When we got to Reading we walked past the broken window which had had the shattered glass removed and was taped up around the edges with Black & Yellow tape.

 

[ExRes]

If I was working that HST I would not want half my passengers separated by a coach locked out of use.

Assuming FGW have their coaches lettered the same way as EMT (MML) did, then I fully understand A being locked out if B was, but why C unless it was damaged as well

 

[TBY-Paul]

Assuming FGW have their coaches lettered the same way as EMT (MML) did, then I fully understand A being locked out if B was, but why C unless it was damaged as well

We were in Coach C, which was the only Coach damaged.

 

[ExRes]

We were in Coach C, which was the only Coach damaged.

My apologies, the brain must be more addled than I thought, I could have sworn you said B was the damaged coach ............. so this is what senility is like

 

[91104]

Seems a bit of overkill to lock 3 coaches out of use for the sake of 1 broken outer pane of a window. Whenever I've had an outer pane broken on a train I've been driving the guard will normally evacuate the seats near the affected window and give me a buzz and I'll drop my speed down to 100mph even then if someone can come out and place some sticky film onto the window we can then proceed at linespeed as the rule was changed a few years ago if I recall,plus you have MK 1 coaches with only a single pane of glass which can run at up to 100mph still running around and they're quite happy to allow that.

 

[trentside]

The only reason I can see to lock the coaches out of use would be if the inner pane of the window had also been damaged - which I think is a crack of 8cm or larger. If the inner pane is still intact, then the coach can stay in use with the exception of the seats around the window. Speed should be reduced to 100mph, as 91104 and 455driver point out.

Of course, it may be FGW policy not to have passengers in a coach with a partially broken window - can anyone confirm?

 

[muz379]

Without seeing the damage to the window its hard to say what should have happened

However even if the window was not so damaged as to render that coach out of service assuming the train was not that busy I would ask passengers around the effected window to move just to be safe

As for what you should do as a passenger , you should find the TM/guard/conductor and inform them , pulling the alarm or the passcom could bring the train to a stand and the person shooting or throwing stones at the train then has a stationary target .

 

[broadgage]

Agree that one should not operate the emergency alarm as this would indeed perhaps offer a stationery* target* to the criminals.
Even is someone has been injured, it is often best for the train to continue to the next station were help can be more easily obtained.

It would be prudent to vacate the immediate area, just in case the damage is more serious than it first appears. Then inform the train manager, asking someone else to do this if age or infirmity makes it hard for yourself to find the train manager.

*In practice, an emergency stop will probably take the train out of range of the shooter or stone thrower. If the passenger takes say 6 seconds to react, then a train doing about 60 MPH will have moved nearly 200 yards in that time, and with a prompt brake application it will move several hundred yards further before stopping.
However the following train might well be slowed or stopped in the danger zone.

 

[Geezertronic]

Seems pretty sensible to me. Overkill maybe but they avoided splitting the train in two.

 

[No Fault Found]

I was once on a train and noticed a couple of young kids in the cess attempting to throw stones at the train i was on. They were pretty useless shots but i called the BTP anyway, mainly for the kids safety more than anything.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

It's that time of year. Summer. It will be even worse in a week or two when the kids finish school.

 

[Les Burrows]

An interesting event and no mistake.

I'm with 455driver in that as long as long as the damage wasn't serious, i.e. window breached, wind rushing in, lacerations to passengers from broken glass, I would have taken my time and politely informed the Train Manager.

 

[rebmcr]

stationery*

Your correction is incorrect. ;)

 

[ATW Alex 101]

Coming home from Altrincham last week some idiot launched what I think was a stone at the train and it didn't half make a thud but it caused the female TM to jump but she just muttered something about thugs and carried on her normal duty. There was no damage though so it was best left at that.

If it was cracked or anything though, I would definitely have informed the TM and moved away from the window just in case something caused it to fall in.

 

[Deerfold]

Coming home from Altrincham last week some idiot launched what I think was a stone at the train and it didn't half make a thud but it caused the female TM to jump but she just muttered something about thugs and carried on her normal duty. There was no damage though so it was best left at that.

Is it best left at that or might they get a better shot at the next train if no-one's made aware that someone is targetting trains?

 

[LexyBoy]

Of course, it may be FGW policy not to have passengers in a coach with a partially broken window - can anyone confirm?

This happened to me between London and Reading; the train was stopped at Reading for the window to be taped up and the train then ran on after 10-20 minutes. I don't recall the coach being shut out of use on that occasion; I've definitely been on a FGW train with a damaged window where the seats around the window had tape to show not to use but the rest of the coach was open for business.

Broken lighting OTOH is apparently a serious business and nobody's allowed to sit in the coach even during the day on routes with no tunnels!

 

[ATW Alex 101]

Is it best left at that or might they get a better shot at the next train if no-one's made aware that someone is targetting trains?

Well considering it was in the middle of a field with no roads and the fact they ran away immediately after would make it quite hard for police to find without a helicopter. That's why I thought that in this particular situation there was little the TM could have done but optionally report it if felt it was needed.

 

[scotsman]

I'd have moved seat and got the TM. No point pulling the alarm, as nobody's in danger.

 

[sor]

This happened to me between London and Reading; the train was stopped at Reading for the window to be taped up and the train then ran on after 10-20 minutes. I don't recall the coach being shut out of use on that occasion; I've definitely been on a FGW train with a damaged window where the seats around the window had tape to show not to use but the rest of the coach was open for business.

Broken lighting OTOH is apparently a serious business and nobody's allowed to sit in the coach even during the day on routes with no tunnels!

I've experienced it too on FGW just after leaving Newbury, going west, a couple of months ago. They stopped the train while it was taped up and then we could continue on reduced speed, with the seats next to the window cordoned off. They didn't kick everyone out as I was sitting at the other end (and on an already busy train it wouldn't have been a great idea).

Later on at Plymouth (I think) they did some more patching.