What's the story of the (horrible) "grille" on front of some Westerns ?

[Justin Smith]

I was thumbing through my copy of "Seventies Spotting Days - Around the Western Country" (how I desperately wish I was back in the free and easy 1970s......) and spotted a few Westerns with an odd square "grille" on the front. Pics of 1012, 1028 and 1056 are in the book with the grille (just below the windows centre left) plus, apparently 1039 & 1071 had them too, ruining the look of the beautiful "clean" Western front end I may add.
I cannot remember reading about them in my copy of Geoff Endacott's "Westerns, Warships and Hymeks at Work", which surprised me, Does anyone have any more info ?

Pic from "Seventies Spotting Days - Around the Western Country" p77 (Western Sultan working the 19.20 Penzance to Paddington postal at its Plymouth stop on the 5th Nov 1976)

 

[Magdalia]

The grilles were the externally visible part of an attempt to improve cab ventilation. The 5 locos that you mention are the full list of locos receiving the modification.

Source is The Western's Hydraulics by JK Lewis p98.

 

[Justin Smith]

The grilles were the externally visible part of an attempt to improve cab ventilation. The 5 locos that you mention are the full list of locos receiving the modification.

Source is The Western's Hydraulics by JK Lewis p98.

Thanks for that.
Did it work ?
Was it really necessary to deface the locos so badly ? The grille is not even in the middle !
Could they not have just opened a window ? ! ?

 

[Cowley]

Thanks for that.
Did it work ?
Was it really necessary to deface the locos so badly ? The grille is not even in the middle !
Could they not have just opened a window ? ! ?

I think the large amount of glass in the cab was quite a major issue on sunny days. Those widescreens are pretty big…

Unfortunate aesthetics aside though, I wonder how successful the modification was?

 

[33017]

The grilles were the externally visible part of an attempt to improve cab ventilation. The 5 locos that you mention are the full list of locos receiving the modification.

Source is The Western's Hydraulics by JK Lewis p98.

A couple of others had vents in the lip above the windows but they’re very difficult to spot in most photo’s as the area was usually dirty / poorly lit. D1004 & D1052 were two, can’t remember if there were others.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

The grille is not even in the middle !

Given that there is a pillar in the middle of the windscreen and a pillar of identical width in the middle of the headcode box, I wonder if there was a structural member running all the way down the front that could not have been cut into without compromising the strength of the cabs?

Does anyone know if this is the case?

 

[Magdalia]

Could they not have just opened a window ?

Lewis says that the sliding cab windows "had to be kept closed at speed if intolerable draughts were to be avoided".

A couple of others had vents in the lip above the windows but they’re very difficult to spot in most photo’s as the area was usually dirty / poorly lit. D1004 & D1052 were two, can’t remember if there were others.

Lewis identifies 3 locos with this modification, D1045 being the other.

 

[D Williams]

I was thumbing through my copy of "Seventies Spotting Days - Around the Western Country" (how I desperately wish I was back in the free and easy 1970s......) and spotted a few Westerns with an odd square "grille" on the front. Pics of 1012, 1028 and 1056 are in the book with the grille (just below the windows centre left) plus, apparently 1039 & 1071 had them too, ruining the look of the beautiful "clean" Western front end I may add.
I cannot remember reading about them in my copy of Geoff Endacott's "Westerns, Warships and Hymeks at Work", which surprised me, Does anyone have any more info ?

Pic from "Seventies Spotting Days - Around the Western Country"

View attachment 147665

"ruining the look of the beautiful "clean" Western front"

I can't remember many Westerns having "clean" fronts. They were usually thick with insects, bits of birds , oil stains and rust patches!

 

[Cowley]

Given that there is a pillar in the middle of the windscreen and a pillar of identical width in the middle of the headcode box, I wonder if there was a structural member running all the way down the front that could not have been cut into without compromising the strength of the cabs?

Does anyone know if this is the case?

Pretty sure that the pillar on the headcode boxes is part of the actual headcodes, so when they’re open they’re a full rectangle and therefore not structural.

 

[Justin Smith]

Given that there is a pillar in the middle of the windscreen and a pillar of identical width in the middle of the headcode box, I wonder if there was a structural member running all the way down the front that could not have been cut into without compromising the strength of the cabs?

Does anyone know if this is the case?

It'd have looked better with two grilles, possibly smaller ones, either side then !
I am a Deltic man, the most imposing powerful looking loco ever to run on BR, but I still, grudgingly, admit the Westerns were probably the best looking (as in handsomest / prettiest).

Lewis says that the sliding cab windows "had to be kept closed at speed if intolerable draughts were to be avoided".

Surely if opened side windows provided intolerable draughts (as in wide open, one assumes), why not just open them a tad ? ! ?

 

[Justin Smith]

Found this interesting photo of Western Sultan taken in May 1971 with "the cab vent grille with its original louvre type cover".
It was plate 35 in "Profile Of The Westerns" (OPC, Nicholas & Montgomery).

 

[Taunton]

Pic from "Seventies Spotting Days - Around the Western Country"

Somewhere familiar??

 

[Justin Smith]

Somewhere familiar??

I should have mentioned where and when it was, now edited in the original as : (Western Sultan working the 19.20 Penzance to Paddington postal at its Plymouth stop on the 5th Nov 1976).
I like those Seventies Spotting books, I have half a dozen of them. All the pics are in colour and they bring back nostalgic memories of my youth when life was so much simpler (and better in my view ! ).

 

[33017]

I should have mentioned where and when it was, now edited in the original as : (Western Sultan working the 19.20 Penzance to Paddington postal at its Plymouth stop on the 5th Nov 1976).
I like those Seventies Spotting books, I have half a dozen of them. All the pics are in colour and they bring back nostalgic memories of my youth when life was so much simpler (and better in my view ! ).

That’s 1056 at St Blazey open day on 1st May 1971. It looked nothing like that in November 1976, not least as the grille was changed for a larger example.

EDIT: Just realised you were talking about the phot at the top of the page.

Lewis says that the sliding cab windows "had to be kept closed at speed if intolerable draughts were to be avoided".


Lewis identifies 3 locos with this modification, D1045 being the other.

D1024 also had them.