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Wheelchair passenger not allowed to board
- Thread starter northwichcat
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northwichcat
Veteran Member
The end of the report states that Northern Rail are trying to establish what happened before he started filming with his phone.
However, I find the fact that the conductor went off to get the supervisor and then the supervisor said he's been refused entry because he turned up too late a bit strange. Why can the conductor delay the train to fetch the supervisor but not to let a late passenger board?
However, I find the fact that the conductor went off to get the supervisor and then the supervisor said he's been refused entry because he turned up too late a bit strange. Why can the conductor delay the train to fetch the supervisor but not to let a late passenger board?
ralphchadkirk
Established Member
Echo the above - clearly not the full story.
I agree there may be more to the story, but at the same time I really can't understand why they were so keen to stop him filming and never gave any sort of reason as to why things were, or weren't, happening.
Also, if they knew he was filming then it would have been the perfect time to mention over and over the reason they were upset. 'Stop filming, you've already been abusive and told me to f**k off' or whatever. Then the video, unless heavily edited (which would be obvious) would be less one-sided.
Also, if they knew he was filming then it would have been the perfect time to mention over and over the reason they were upset. 'Stop filming, you've already been abusive and told me to f**k off' or whatever. Then the video, unless heavily edited (which would be obvious) would be less one-sided.
First class
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The specfied rules:
Now it is a motorised scooter in the video, albeit a smaller version. It isn't a wheelchair. Therefore, technically, it can't be conveyed anyway and as he hasn't given sufficient notice, alternative transport may not be arranged, (if he would fit in a taxi anyway).
As an aside, it is not the conductors job to load/unload wheelchairs/scooters etc at Manchester Piccadilly. It is solely Network Rail who have that responsibility. The guard/Northern may not be insured in the event the ramp collapses or some sort of accident occurs.
Clearly if you need assistance it's unfortunate you're in that position, but personally I would expect to have to make prior arrangements- and I get the feeling that if this disabled man had given the company 24hrs notice, (or even an hour's notice) none of this would have happened. The government won't invest in new DDA compliant rolling stock for Northern, so unfortunately until then, w/c users will have to be very flexible. It's not ideal, but what's the alternative?
I also get the feeling that the passenger involved likes to think that the world is against him because he is disabled IMO.
Now it is a motorised scooter in the video, albeit a smaller version. It isn't a wheelchair. Therefore, technically, it can't be conveyed anyway and as he hasn't given sufficient notice, alternative transport may not be arranged, (if he would fit in a taxi anyway).
As an aside, it is not the conductors job to load/unload wheelchairs/scooters etc at Manchester Piccadilly. It is solely Network Rail who have that responsibility. The guard/Northern may not be insured in the event the ramp collapses or some sort of accident occurs.
Clearly if you need assistance it's unfortunate you're in that position, but personally I would expect to have to make prior arrangements- and I get the feeling that if this disabled man had given the company 24hrs notice, (or even an hour's notice) none of this would have happened. The government won't invest in new DDA compliant rolling stock for Northern, so unfortunately until then, w/c users will have to be very flexible. It's not ideal, but what's the alternative?
I also get the feeling that the passenger involved likes to think that the world is against him because he is disabled IMO.
blacknight
Member
Now it is a motorised scooter in the video, albeit a smaller version. It isn't a wheelchair. Therefore, technically, it can't be conveyed anyway and as he hasn't given sufficient notice, alternative transport may not be arranged, (if he would fit in a taxi anyway).
You must have had along nightshift or you need to pay a visit to specsavers as it looks like a motorised wheelchair to me. No pun intended but are you honestly suggesting that disabled passengers are not allowed walk up travel & to travel at short notice surely that would breach of DDA.
Also the wheelchair would fit into a DDA Taxi which can be ordered have you not noticed why taxis are starting to look like small vans. Remember that Rules are for the guidence of Wise & for the obedience of Fools
No excuses please staff here c0cked the job up it would have taken couple of minutes to have used onboard ramp & save an internal witch hunt which company will undertake to counter the bad publicity.
If onboard ramp is used it would be Northerns responsibility to ensure it was servicable & fit for purpose.
If the man was on return journey how did he get there in the first place?What if family member is taken ill at short notice not everything in life can be preplanned.
Blame Government I would think wheelchairs go on Pacers every day, that time of night train was not exactly full & standing.
Maybe guard just didn't want to put wheelchair off at unmanned station just wanted a cab ride home.
You must have had along nightshift or you need to pay a visit to specsavers as it looks like a motorised wheelchair to me. No pun intended but are you honestly suggesting that disabled passengers are not allowed walk up travel & to travel at short notice surely that would breach of DDA.
Also the wheelchair would fit into a DDA Taxi which can be ordered have you not noticed why taxis are starting to look like small vans. Remember that Rules are for the guidence of Wise & for the obedience of Fools
No excuses please staff here c0cked the job up it would have taken couple of minutes to have used onboard ramp & save an internal witch hunt which company will undertake to counter the bad publicity.
If onboard ramp is used it would be Northerns responsibility to ensure it was servicable & fit for purpose.
If the man was on return journey how did he get there in the first place?What if family member is taken ill at short notice not everything in life can be preplanned.
Blame Government I would think wheelchairs go on Pacers every day, that time of night train was not exactly full & standing.
Maybe guard just didn't want to put wheelchair off at unmanned station just wanted a cab ride home.
This was initially my first thought before I watched the video, but having watched it the man is definitely not in a scooter. He is in an electric wheelchair.
Could it simply be that the Guard went off in search of platform staff to get the ramp, and the platform staff decided he was too late and sent the train on its way?
Geezertronic
Established Member
I've not watched the video, but surely if the guard went searching for the ramp then the platform staff cannot send the train on its way without the guard?
northwichcat
Veteran Member
142s have a ramp on board. It's also a special ramp as it needs to accommodate for the double step on Pacers.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
It's emerged elsewhere the Guide Bridge (where he wanted to alight) can't cope with the extended 142 ramps so the wheelchair passenger should have been put on the next 323 to Guide Bridge or taxi-ed there. So it seems to be the case that unclear communication was the problem.
ChrisTheRef
Established Member
The whole "I'm afraid to travel by train" thing is a bit too much for me
Lampshade
Established Member
First class said:
What if he didn't know he was travelling 24 hours before? Disabled passengers don't need to give advance warning, I've seen passengers in wheelchairs boarding at unstaffed stations way out in the sticks and they have not been refused at all. However, I'm not jumping to any conclusions as we don't know the full story from the video.
Seconded.
Of course not, but the Guard came back with the platform staff! Remember, it's the platform staff's job to deal with wheelchair pax apart from at unstaffed stations.
Anyway - I see we may have found the real reason now! Question is - why did the Supervisor bloke not just tell him that he couldn't use this type of train but they'd get him on the next 323?! Simple!
northwichcat
Veteran Member
You also get incidents where the passenger says they phoned the operator yesterday but the information hasn't filtered down to the staff on the train they are planning to catch.
Lampshade
Established Member
The unedited version is on Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96pJTbVUoFA&feature=player_embedded
He is offered travel on a later service, something ITV conveniently edited out.
He is offered travel on a later service, something ITV conveniently edited out.
asylumxl
Established Member
No offense to anyone, but he seems a bit of a stuck up **** to me. I'm not suprised he got that reaction, if he talks to people like that. Maybe if he tried being polite he'd have got politer reactions.
(I'm Middle Eastern in origin and Muslim, before anyone tries to stamp anything on this post)
(I'm Middle Eastern in origin and Muslim, before anyone tries to stamp anything on this post)
Snapper
Established Member
Has this been established as a fact?
northwichcat
Veteran Member
It's been mentioned on other forums and on the National Rail website Guide Bridge is listed as a partly accessible station not a fully accessible one.
Having had a look at Stations Made Easy I cannot see why there is any reason why a wheelchair ramp cannot be used by certain types of train however there may be things which are not immediately obvious from the website. Does anyone have any local knowledge?
He's in the Daily Mail now and seems to be doing a number of other slots on TV/radio/print. I've spotted at least one racist comment on the Daily Mail forum, so I do think he may regret asking for all this publicity - especially if he's held back some key information about previous problems/arguments. We all know how the press like to turn on people.
The papers and TV only seem to care about a good story, and that video makes it a great story (especially when edited - although the unedited video is now there to see) but it's still totally one-sided. I'm ashamed to be a journalist and see this total sensationalist reporting, where nobody asks the 'victim' any proper questions to establish the full facts.
I can see on the Digital Spy that a lot of people are slowly pulling his original story to bits, and it reminds me of threads on here where people have come on - been found out - then run away after realising that not everyone just takes everything at face value.
At no point have I said the guard or other staff have acted properly, or shouldn't be reprimanded.
The papers and TV only seem to care about a good story, and that video makes it a great story (especially when edited - although the unedited video is now there to see) but it's still totally one-sided. I'm ashamed to be a journalist and see this total sensationalist reporting, where nobody asks the 'victim' any proper questions to establish the full facts.
I can see on the Digital Spy that a lot of people are slowly pulling his original story to bits, and it reminds me of threads on here where people have come on - been found out - then run away after realising that not everyone just takes everything at face value.
At no point have I said the guard or other staff have acted properly, or shouldn't be reprimanded.
starrymarkb
Established Member
Digitalspy does that, you'll find they soon notice holes in the story and won't let go
Anybody who hasnt seen the full video on youtube needs to do so now.
This guy is in the wrong and knows it, but is relying on the fact that people who arent in full possession of the facts will always have sympathy with someone in a wheelchair.
Any member of the public who utters the phrase "dont touch me, thats assault", when nobody is touching them, should be banned from using all public services. Suggesting that someone is assaulting you, or being close to do so, is tantamount to making false criminal allegations, allegations which could cause a law-abiding employee, doing his job, to be arrested. And as such, is threatening behaviour.
I dont have knowledge of the route, but it appears that pacer ramps are not suitable for use at Guide Bridge. And it seems this was explained.
Personally, I think we should commend all staff involved for remaining calm and polite towards a clearly troublesome individual.
This guy is in the wrong and knows it, but is relying on the fact that people who arent in full possession of the facts will always have sympathy with someone in a wheelchair.
Any member of the public who utters the phrase "dont touch me, thats assault", when nobody is touching them, should be banned from using all public services. Suggesting that someone is assaulting you, or being close to do so, is tantamount to making false criminal allegations, allegations which could cause a law-abiding employee, doing his job, to be arrested. And as such, is threatening behaviour.
I dont have knowledge of the route, but it appears that pacer ramps are not suitable for use at Guide Bridge. And it seems this was explained.
Personally, I think we should commend all staff involved for remaining calm and polite towards a clearly troublesome individual.
MidnightFlyer
Veteran Member
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Watching the video on YT now. He said on the ITV vid he's used this type of trtain (I assume he means 142) before, but has he ever used Guide Bridge before, the platforms are a bit narrow in places 
Lampshade
Established Member
The Glossop bound platform is quite uneven in places although I suspect there may be more to it than that, especially as it seems to only be 142s that have problems.
In that case, I think we should call for a boycott of all Northern Rail services until he is reinstated, and given a full apology.
MidnightFlyer
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God save us, if he gets banned for something like that, there is no hope for the H&S bosses love. The person who made the suspention decision should be sacked. Christ.
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