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Where has a 195 been?

123*

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Following on from the Grange over Sands derailment thread there seems to be some debate as to where the 195’s have been previously?

Can anyone confirm where on the network they have been either in or out of service?

Thanks.
 
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skyhigh

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Probably easier to list lines on the Northern they haven't been over.
 

_toommm_

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Off the top of my head, a few I can think of where they haven't been:
  • Hazel Grove to Buxton.
  • Edgeley Jn. to Chester via Altrincham.
  • Skipton to Carnforth/Carlisle.
  • Carlisle to Millom (if that's where they're banned from) via the Cumbrian Coast.
  • I don't think many have gone Edgeley Jn. to Stoke or Crewe.
  • Manchester to Glossop/Hadfield.
  • Anywhere north of York on the East side of operations, along the lines of Hexham/Middlesbrough/Newcastle/Saltburn/Whitby.
(Happy to be proven wrong with any of these though, and this definitely isn't a definitive list)
 

YorkRailFan

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Off the top of my head, a few I can think of where they haven't been:
  • Hazel Grove to Buxton.
  • Edgeley Jn. to Chester via Altrincham.
  • Skipton to Carnforth/Carlisle.
  • Carlisle to Millom (if that's where they're banned from) via the Cumbrian Coast.
  • I don't think many have gone Edgeley Jn. to Stoke or Crewe.
  • Manchester to Glossop/Hadfield.
  • Anywhere north of York on the East side of operations, along the lines of Hexham/Middlesbrough/Newcastle/Saltburn/Whitby.
(Happy to be proven wrong with any of these though, and this definitely isn't a definitive list)
Harrogate Line would be another. Have they ever been to Hull?
 

507020

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Other than electric services, there now seem to be 2 distinct schools of Northern services, those that are Civity routes operated with 195s and those that are Sprinter routes operated with 15x, with very few lines seeing both types regularly and increasing standardisation on these 2 service groups.

I am in general quite interested in which lines particular rolling stock pass over so I can have a good guess for 195s.
Off the top of my head, a few I can think of where they haven't been:
  • Hazel Grove to Buxton.
  • Edgeley Jn. to Chester via Altrincham.
  • Skipton to Carnforth/Carlisle.
  • Carlisle to Millom (if that's where they're banned from) via the Cumbrian Coast.
  • I don't think many have gone Edgeley Jn. to Stoke or Crewe.
  • Manchester to Glossop/Hadfield.
  • Anywhere north of York on the East side of operations, along the lines of Hexham/Middlesbrough/Newcastle/Saltburn/Whitby.
(Happy to be proven wrong with any of these though, and this definitely isn't a definitive list)
I would highly doubt 195s have ever been to:
  • Ellesmere Port
  • Stalybridge*
  • Kirkby/Headbolt Lane
  • Ormskirk
  • Colne
  • Blackpool South
  • Clitheroe
  • Morecambe/Heysham Port
*either from Manchester Victoria, Stockport or Guide Bridge. Or between Bolton and Blackburn, or Lostock Junction and Crow Nest Junction.

And on the east side, with less certainty I doubt they have been on:
  • ANY of the Airedale/Wharfedale lines towards Shipley or Hellifield
  • ANY of the 170 operated services towards Harrogate, Doncaster, Goole, Hull or Scarborough (which makes me think I’m not sure about Micklefield/Church Fenton - Hull)
  • ANY of the lines east of Doncaster or Gainsborough towards Grimsby/Cleethorpes
  • Huddersfield - Barnsley via Penistone
  • Leeds - Knottingley or Knottingley - Goole (which makes me think one has never been to Castleford)
  • Moorthorpe - Church Fenton via Pontefract Baghill and Burton Salmon Junction
The only route I am absolutely unsure of is Leeds - Sheffield via Wakefield Westgate or Moorthorpe. It is one you would expect to see 195s on, especially with 331s on the Leeds - Doncaster electric service, but I am unable to find ANY evidence of a 195 operated service that way. Are there clearance issues for them on part of this line? This would be consistent with 195s not running other services between Sheffield, Swinton and Moorthorpe.

195s HAVE however run to:
  • Southport ONCE only, where it was stuck for several weeks afterwards. When contacted, Northern claimed that this was purely for stabling at Southport, but it was obviously an unsuccessful gauging run. You do not run a new unit down a line it is not cleared on purely for stabling purposes at the remote end.
  • Edge Hill - Earlestown via the electrified line, inexplicably the first train from Manchester Airport to Lime Street was Diesel operated (but have they done Huyton Junction - Springs Branch Junction via St Helens Central?)
  • The other route to Sheffield on Leeds - Nottingham/Lincoln services via Wakefield Kirkgate and Barnsley, meaning they have been all the way to Gainsborough, but not the slower services reversing at Castleford. Is it a 195 that does the once a day service to Retford High Level?
  • Services from Manchester Piccadilly to Sheffield, New Mills Central and Rose Hill Marple via Ashburys, but not Hadfield/Glossop, although Sprinters have been on the electrified line to Hadfield/Glossop on hot days.
  • Milner Royd Junction - Leeds via Dewsbury etc Non Stop when Bradford Interchange is closed for engineering works.
  • Euxton Junction - Golborne Junction on the WCML when the Barrow/Windermere services previously went that way.
  • Wigan North Western - Manchester Victoria via Atherton. There was formerly 1 diagram formed of a 195 to cover for the withdrawal of 153s until an additional pair of 158s could be allocated.
There are 2 routes which I believe 195s have only passed over very recently.
  • Manchester Piccadilly - New Mills South Junction via Hazel Grove. Hope Valley services are currently going this way due to an infrastructure failure at New Mills South Junction, calling at Stockport. I travelled this way on the morning of 10 February, but before that, had a 195 ever called in service at Stockport? and
  • Salford Crescent - Euxton Junction. When Barrow/Windermere services were diverted to serve Bolton. If I’m honest, it was better when they went the other way, but until then, I don’t think a 195 had ever reached Bolton. They have also been running all stops between Preston and Bolton when terminating there due to engineering works. I am aware there is a neutral section on the line, somewhere north of Lostock Junction. If the overhead wires are isolated, is it not possible for an electric device to reach Bolton?
After all this, it may be the case that 195s have still never reached Doncaster or Huddersfield, or anywhere south of Manchester Airport or Edgeley Junction. Despite no Northern crews currently signing it, it certainly matters if 195s have never done any of the route between Miles Platting/Guide Bridge and Heaton Lodge.
 
Last edited:

L401CJF

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Other than electric services, there now seem to be 2 distinct schools of Northern services, those that are Civity routes operated with 195s and those that are Sprinter routes operated with 15x, with very few lines seeing both types regularly and increasing standardisation on these 2 service groups.

I am in general quite interested in which lines particular rolling stock pass over so I can have a good guess for 195s.

I would highly doubt 195s have ever been to:
  • Ellesmere Port
  • Stalybridge*
  • Kirkby/Headbolt Lane
  • Ormskirk
  • Colne
  • Blackpool South
  • Clitheroe
  • Morecambe/Heysham Port
*either from Manchester Victoria, Stockport or Guide Bridge. Or between Bolton and Blackburn, or Lostock Junction and Crow Nest Junction.

And on the east side, with less certainty I doubt they have been on:
  • ANY of the Airedale/Wharfedale lines towards Shipley or Hellifield
  • ANY of the 170 operated services towards Harrogate, Doncaster, Goole, Hull or Scarborough (which makes me think I’m not sure about Micklefield/Church Fenton - Hull)
  • ANY of the lines east of Doncaster or Gainsborough towards Grimsby/Cleethorpes
  • Huddersfield - Barnsley via Penistone
  • Leeds - Knottingley via or Knottingley - Goole (which makes me think one has never been to Castleford)
  • Moorthorpe - Church Fenton via Pontefract Baghill and Burton Salmon Junction
The only route I am absolutely unsure of is Leeds - Sheffield via Wakefield Westgate or Moorthorpe. It is one you would expect to see 195s on, especially with 331s on the Leeds - Doncaster electric service, but I am unable to find ANY evidence of a 195 operated service that way. Are there clearance issues for them on part of this line? This would be consistent with 195s not running other services between Sheffield, Swinton and Moorthorpe.

195s HAVE however run to:
  • Southport ONCE only, where it was stuck for several weeks afterwards. When contacted, Northern claimed that this was purely for stabling at Southport, but it was obviously an unsuccessful gauging run. You do not run a new unit down a line it is not cleared on purely for stabling purposes at the remote end.
  • Edge Hill - Earlestown via the electrified line, inexplicably the first train from Manchester Airport to Lime Street was Diesel operated (but have they done Huyton Junction - Springs Branch Junction via St Helens Central?)
  • The other route to Sheffield on Leeds - Nottingham/Lincoln services via Wakefield Kirkgate and Barnsley, meaning they have been all the way to Gainsborough. Is it a 195 that does the once a day service to Retford High Level?
  • Services from Manchester Piccadilly to Sheffield, New Mills Central and Rose Hill Marple via Ashburys, but not Hadfield/Glossop, although Sprinters have been on the electrified line to Hadfield/Glossop on hot days.
  • Milner Royd Junction - Leeds via Dewsbury etc Non Stop when Bradford Interchange is closed for engineering works.
  • Euxton Junction - Golborne Junction on the WCML when the Barrow/Windermere services previously went that way.
  • Wigan North Western - Manchester Victoria via Atherton. There was formerly 1 diagram formed of a 195 to cover for the withdrawal of 153s until an additional pair of 158s could be allocated.
There are 2 routes which I believe 195s have only passed over very recently.
  • Manchester Piccadilly - New Mills South Junction via Hazel Grove. Hope Valley services are currently going this way due to an infrastructure failure at New Mills South Junction, calling at Stockport. I travelled this way on the morning of 10 February, but before that, had a 195 ever called in service at Stockport? and
  • Salford Crescent - Euxton Junction. When Barrow/Windermere services were diverted to serve Bolton. If I’m honest, it was better when they went the other way, but until then, I don’t think a 195 had ever reached Bolton. They have also been running all stops between Preston and Bolton when terminating there due to engineering works. I am aware there is a neutral section on the line, somewhere north of Lostock Junction. If the overhead wires are isolated, is it not possible for an electric device to reach Bolton?
After all this, it may be the case that 195s have still never reached Doncaster or Huddersfield, or anywhere south of Manchester Airport or Edgeley Junction. Despite no Northern crews currently signing it, it certainly matters if 195s have never done any of the route between Miles Platting/Guide Bridge and Heaton Lodge.
195s have definitely been to Ellesmere Port, they worked the short lived Ellesmere Port to Leeds service. There's also a photo on Flickr of one in 2020 on the Ellesmere Port to Lime St via Warrington service.
 

VideozVideoz

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  • Manchester Piccadilly - New Mills South Junction via Hazel Grove. Hope Valley services are currently going this way due to an infrastructure failure at New Mills South Junction, calling at Stockport. I travelled this way on the morning of 10 February, but before that, had a 195 ever called in service at Stockport? and
Yes, many times! The first Manchester to Sheffield service of the day via Stockport (Mon-Sat) at 5:46 is usually a 195
 

skyhigh

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Leeds - Knottingley via or Knottingley - Goole (which makes me think one has never been to Castleford)
No, they have run to Knottingley in service and also run the stoppers via Castleford to Sheffield.
 

YorkRailFan

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195s have definitely been to Ellesmere Port, they worked the short lived Ellesmere Port to Leeds service.
Yes, it's in this video:
(Video description: Geoff Marshall visits Stanlow & Thornton and a 195 is visible at Ince & Elton at 2:45)
 

John C

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I remember a couple of years back there used to be an ECS working from Manchester Piccadilly to Newton Heath that went via Huddersfield running via Marsden both ways and was a 195 (prior to that 142’s). I think it used to come off Rose Hill or Marple peak AM services and was a routed via Huddersfield for route knowledge.
 

pokemonsuper9

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They used to come down the Atherton line until Dec 22 (diagram attached) and still very rarely come down this way when things go wrong (including one time where a 2+2 195 got sent this way, which I think may have only ever happened that once).
Used to be nice to occasionally end up on the 195, but now I have to settle for just Sprinters.

Edit: Just re-read #6 and realised that was in there, did not know the 195 was to cover for loss of 153s.
DIAGRAM: NH 713 195/1
Leeds 06.17 2R82FA
Wigan NW 08.39 08.54 2I07FA
Leeds 11.03 11.17 2R92FA
Wigan NW 13.35 13.53 2I17FA
Leeds 16.02 16.17 2R82FB
Wigan NW 18.37 18.53 2I07FB
Leeds 21.04 21.42 1J05FB
Mancr Vic 23.08 23.19 1J36FA
Leeds 00.45 00+50 5J36MG
HolbeckLS 01+00
MILES: (LD) 522:00 (ETY) 1:40 (TOT) 523:40
 
Last edited:

J-2739

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The only route I am absolutely unsure of is Leeds - Sheffield via Wakefield Westgate or Moorthorpe. It is one you would expect to see 195s on, especially with 331s on the Leeds - Doncaster electric service, but I am unable to find ANY evidence of a 195 operated service that way. Are there clearance issues for them on part of this line? This would be consistent with 195s not running other services between Sheffield, Swinton and Moorthorpe.
They have run that way before, especially if the route via Barnsley is unavailable.
 

eastwestdivide

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1D53

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To correct some of the above I know at least one run Leeds to Bradford FS in service with a 195 alongside the full 6 car test run mentioned above, one also went to Hadfield/Glossop and also the Penistone on a test run back in 2022ish. Alongside the Harrogate Line test run they have also made it in one direction only in service on one occasion.
 

DanNCL

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No idea if one has actually been along any of these. But 195s are cleared on the Durham Coast line, Tees Valley line and Bishop Auckland branch, as well as the ECML to just south of Newcastle.
Can’t remember the full details now, but I remember seeing 195 specific restrictions on one of these routes, think it might have been the Bishop Auckland branch.
 

WF4HA5HE

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ANY of the 170 operated services towards Harrogate, Doncaster, Goole, Hull or Scarborough (which makes me think I’m not sure about Micklefield/Church Fenton - Hull)
Although it wasn't operating a Sheffield-Scarbrough train there is a sheffield diagram were a 195 works a Sheffield-Doncaster stopper on Sundays only. So they have definitely been to Doncaster Although it is a unusual sight. Not sure if it's a booked working or swapped out I know it forms from a Leeds-Sheffield via castleford.

No idea if one has actually been along any of these. But 195s are cleared on the Durham Coast line, Tees Valley line and Bishop Auckland branch, as well as the ECML to just south of Newcastle.
Can’t remember the full details now, but I remember seeing 195 specific restrictions on one of these routes, think it might have been the Bishop Auckland branch.
I don't think we'll see them around the Durham coast anytime soon because as far as I'm aware Newcastle,Darlington and Middlesbrough crews don't sign them.
 
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YorksLad12

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Other than electric services, there now seem to be 2 distinct schools of Northern services, those that are Civity routes operated with 195s and those that are Sprinter routes operated with 15x, with very few lines seeing both types regularly and increasing standardisation on these 2 service groups.
Mostly, aye. The semi-fast Nottingham-Sheffield-Leeds is sometimes a 158 instead of a 195.
  • ANY of the 170 operated services towards Harrogate, Doncaster, Goole, Hull or Scarborough (which makes me think I’m not sure about Micklefield/Church Fenton - Hull)
I've caught a 195 to York from Leeds, last November (disruption between Leeds and Wakefield, so we had to go to York to go to London. The on-board said "The next station is... Garforth" just as we pulled in to East Garforth).
After all this, it may be the case that 195s have still never reached Doncaster or Huddersfield, or anywhere south of Manchester Airport or Edgeley Junction. Despite no Northern crews currently signing it, it certainly matters if 195s have never done any of the route between Miles Platting/Guide Bridge and Heaton Lodge.
When they were being introduced, pretty sure I used to see 195s in the late evening parked up at Huddersfield. They do Leeds-Dewsbury-Brighouse-Manchester, so I'd guess they're cleared from Mirfield to Huddersfield, if not (yet) in revenue service.
 

John C

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Here are a couple of pics of 195’s in Huddersfield but they are not regular visitors.


 

GardenRail

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Other than electric services, there now seem to be 2 distinct schools of Northern services, those that are Civity routes operated with 195s and those that are Sprinter routes operated with 15x, with very few lines seeing both types regularly and increasing standardisation on these 2 service groups.

I am in general quite interested in which lines particular rolling stock pass over so I can have a good guess for 195s.

I would highly doubt 195s have ever been to:
  • Ellesmere Port
  • Stalybridge*
  • Kirkby/Headbolt Lane
  • Ormskirk
  • Colne
  • Blackpool South
  • Clitheroe
  • Morecambe/Heysham Port
*either from Manchester Victoria, Stockport or Guide Bridge. Or between Bolton and Blackburn, or Lostock Junction and Crow Nest Junction.

And on the east side, with less certainty I doubt they have been on:
  • ANY of the Airedale/Wharfedale lines towards Shipley or Hellifield
  • ANY of the 170 operated services towards Harrogate, Doncaster, Goole, Hull or Scarborough (which makes me think I’m not sure about Micklefield/Church Fenton - Hull)
  • ANY of the lines east of Doncaster or Gainsborough towards Grimsby/Cleethorpes
  • Huddersfield - Barnsley via Penistone
  • Leeds - Knottingley or Knottingley - Goole (which makes me think one has never been to Castleford)
  • Moorthorpe - Church Fenton via Pontefract Baghill and Burton Salmon Junction
The only route I am absolutely unsure of is Leeds - Sheffield via Wakefield Westgate or Moorthorpe. It is one you would expect to see 195s on, especially with 331s on the Leeds - Doncaster electric service, but I am unable to find ANY evidence of a 195 operated service that way. Are there clearance issues for them on part of this line? This would be consistent with 195s not running other services between Sheffield, Swinton and Moorthorpe.

195s HAVE however run to:
  • Southport ONCE only, where it was stuck for several weeks afterwards. When contacted, Northern claimed that this was purely for stabling at Southport, but it was obviously an unsuccessful gauging run. You do not run a new unit down a line it is not cleared on purely for stabling purposes at the remote end.
  • Edge Hill - Earlestown via the electrified line, inexplicably the first train from Manchester Airport to Lime Street was Diesel operated (but have they done Huyton Junction - Springs Branch Junction via St Helens Central?)
  • The other route to Sheffield on Leeds - Nottingham/Lincoln services via Wakefield Kirkgate and Barnsley, meaning they have been all the way to Gainsborough, but not the slower services reversing at Castleford. Is it a 195 that does the once a day service to Retford High Level?
  • Services from Manchester Piccadilly to Sheffield, New Mills Central and Rose Hill Marple via Ashburys, but not Hadfield/Glossop, although Sprinters have been on the electrified line to Hadfield/Glossop on hot days.
  • Milner Royd Junction - Leeds via Dewsbury etc Non Stop when Bradford Interchange is closed for engineering works.
  • Euxton Junction - Golborne Junction on the WCML when the Barrow/Windermere services previously went that way.
  • Wigan North Western - Manchester Victoria via Atherton. There was formerly 1 diagram formed of a 195 to cover for the withdrawal of 153s until an additional pair of 158s could be allocated.
There are 2 routes which I believe 195s have only passed over very recently.
  • Manchester Piccadilly - New Mills South Junction via Hazel Grove. Hope Valley services are currently going this way due to an infrastructure failure at New Mills South Junction, calling at Stockport. I travelled this way on the morning of 10 February, but before that, had a 195 ever called in service at Stockport? and
  • Salford Crescent - Euxton Junction. When Barrow/Windermere services were diverted to serve Bolton. If I’m honest, it was better when they went the other way, but until then, I don’t think a 195 had ever reached Bolton. They have also been running all stops between Preston and Bolton when terminating there due to engineering works. I am aware there is a neutral section on the line, somewhere north of Lostock Junction. If the overhead wires are isolated, is it not possible for an electric device to reach Bolton?
After all this, it may be the case that 195s have still never reached Doncaster or Huddersfield, or anywhere south of Manchester Airport or Edgeley Junction. Despite no Northern crews currently signing it, it certainly matters if 195s have never done any of the route between Miles Platting/Guide Bridge and Heaton Lodge.
They have definitely been to Huddersfield on the Penistone line, and they definitely run on the Moorthorpe route, though not regularly.

Edit, the above post got in first.
 

Geeves

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There's a 195 booked on the last Staly from Vic each night currently. 195s have appeared on the Wigan via Golborne recently too. 195s run via Brighouse/Dewsbury pretty regularly too when issues occur at Bradford. Wigan NW via Atherton loads of times. Liverpool via Warrington BQ to Chester.
 

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Express380

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Other than electric services, there now seem to be 2 distinct schools of Northern services, those that are Civity routes operated with 195s and those that are Sprinter routes operated with 15x, with very few lines seeing both types regularly and increasing standardisation on these 2 service groups.

I am in general quite interested in which lines particular rolling stock pass over so I can have a good guess for 195s.

I would highly doubt 195s have ever been to:
  • Stalybridge*
Definitely got 1 or 2 a week booked to Staly in the Evening from Vic
 

61653 HTAFC

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Definitely been allocated as far as Lockwood when there was engineering work on a Sunday according to RTT
They had a spell as the regular traction on the route on Sundays a couple of years ago. They've definitely run to Huddersfield in service via that route multiple times. Not sure they've run in service from Bradford (the only other Northern route through Huddersfield) but as mentioned upthread they were stabled there during testing and introduction.
 

Britannia94

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They have also been as a far as Selby on the Leeds to Hull line, the 1116 from Leeds to Selby on a Sunday usually sees a 195.

They have definitely been to Huddersfield on the Penistone line, and they definitely run on the Moorthorpe route, though not regularly.

Edit, the above post got in first.

The 2230 Leeds to Sheffield and 2311 Leeds to Sheffield (both via Moorthorpe) tend to be operated by 195s during the week. The former is usually a 2 units working together.
 

Kite159

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195s have been to Doncaster as before Covid hit there used to be an early morning Saturday Doncaster - Lincoln service which from memory ran non-stop to Sheffield avoiding Swinton before calling all stations to Lincoln.

And previously worked to Wilmslow to form a Wilmslow - Liverpool Lime Street morning peak service avoiding the airport when Northern ran the semi-fast services via Warrington Central.
 

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