Where is ARRIVA UK Bus heading?

[Surreyman]

I note that Arriva have just announced a 'Restructuring' exercise which seems to mainly affect Managers in UK Bus.
Headlines of 'People having to re-apply for their Jobs' & 'Headhunters recruiting new staff' in Routeone Magazine.

Midlands & Shires to come under common Management with presumably fewer Managers overall.
'Management Centres' in Wakefield, Liverpool, Leicester, Luton & Maidstone (London Operations reported unchanged).

Another recent announcement that Deutsche Bahn (owner of Arriva) is considering 'part privatising' Arriva' presumably by offering shares for sale to interested parties.
Perhaps the just announced 're-structuring' is to make the company 'lean & mean' and possibly more attractive to possible future investors?

In the last 3-4 years we have seen: -

1. Rationalisation of North east operations in Northumbria & County Durham
2. Rationalisation in the North West & Wales
3. Exit from National Express operations.
4. Exit from Scotland with business sold to McGills.
5. Wardle operations in the Potteries sold to D & G.
6. The TGM/Classic Coaches/Burtons/Stansted operation closed down/Heathrow & Gatwick operations sold - off to OFJ/or in the case of Harlow & Colchester merged into the main Business.
7. The Original Tour (London Open Top tour business) sold to RATP.
8. On a more positive note, the acquisition of the West Yorkshire operations of Centrebus - re-branded as 'Yorkshire Tiger' & the Hinckley operation.

We have 'Sapphire' & 'Max', some might say these are imitations of other operators brands?

Does anyone have more details or insights?

 

[AB93]

I note that Arriva have just announced a 'Restructuring' exercise which seems to mainly affect Managers in UK Bus.
Headlines of 'People having to re-apply for their Jobs' & 'Headhunters recruiting new staff' in Routeone Magazine.

From RouteOne "What is described by some as a “ruthless restructuring” will fundamentally change one of Arriva’s core values of a localised devolved structure to centralised functions, remote from the local operating companies."

...so they're basically going the way First was, while First is going the other way!

"The move has come as a surprise to staff, and is only five months after the appointment of Kevin O’Connor as UK Bus MD. He joined Arriva after almost a decade in senior roles with troubled security firm G4S."

......oh.........!

 

[Y961 XBU]

Looking at Arriva North West and Arriva Buses Wales they just dont show any will into running a business at all, countless times a company has attacked Arriva and they have done nothing until the Service is unprofitable and then Withdrew it...

 

[ChathillMan]

I've always found ARRIVA to be an odd one. They are usually very slow to implement things (still no smartcard) but once they get started they are like a bull in a china shop (e.g. see roll out of Sapphire)

 

[wellwhatitis]

What they will basically do is remove anybody with any inkling atall in the operating area they work in and replace them with probably non bus industry experienced staff with no knowledge of the industry or any of the areas they will cover. These areas will be too big and will be managed from completely inappropriate places where it will be impossible to make the correct commercial decisions for local operations.

There will then follow a period similar to what is already being experienced in the Midlands whereby Arriva have trimmed everything that doesn't hit their magic percentage to such a degree that new operators are picking up the bits and managing to do alright out of them. Having gained a decent foothold they then tackle Arriva on the better stuff, with decent degrees of success.

The result is some operating territory that used to do very nicely for each depot now being invaded by new faces in ways that the previous management and directors would never have allowed, because those people could see past the end of their noses.

As a previous poster said, they have somehow looked at the previous First model and seen sense in it. Goodness knows what they were looking at or what they were drinking!

 

[Tetchytyke]

It's very odd.

Where Arriva have decided to invest, they've probably done a better job of it than anyone else. Sapphire is a good strong idea, well implemented, although I don't see the point of Max, which is basically Sapphire but not quite as good. Their live bus tracking app is very good and genuinely innovative, as is their m-ticketing.

The proposed regional management centres are generally based in their heartlands, which shouldn't change too much, although I'm surprised Sunderland isn't on the list.

But I don't think centralisation in the bus market works, as First have repeatedly shown (and as Arriva have shown in the north east). Their actions in the north east about ten years ago left the door wide open for smaller companies to take over, with the smaller companies (e.g. Jayline, Stanley Buses, Northumbria Coaches) being bought out by their biggest regional competitor once they'd established themselves. It sounds like they're about to shoot themselves in the foot again in exactly the same way. The less said about how they're steadily destroying Arriva The Shires the better.

 

[thealexweb]

Arriva seem to be struggling in Bolton and I agree that some of the damage is indeed self-inflicted.

In 2011, Arriva North West walked away from the 515 and South Lancs Travel took the route on, albeit in a slightly reduced form. They have run the Ladybridge shuttle every since so the route must be profitable. Last year Arriva North West decided it was only prepared to offer offer an hourly Wigan service, down from half hourly, again with South Lancs Travel picking up the other service. Then Arriva lost / did not bid for the tendered 715 services so all evening, Sunday and holiday services went over to South Lancs Travel as well. And from last month Arriva are not only prepared to operate between Bolton and Westhoughton.

Also, Arriva are no longer prepared to operate the 535, 537 and their 538 only runs a few times per day in the evening even with subsidy.

 

[northwichcat]

Arriva seem to be struggling in Bolton and I agree that some of the damage is indeed self-inflicted.

In 2011 Arriva walked away from the 515 and South Lancs Travel took it on, albeit in a slightly reduced form. Last year Arriva decided it was only prepared to offer offer an hourly Wigan service, down from half hourly, again with South Lancs Travel picking up the other service. Then Arriva lost / did not bid for the tendered services so all evening, Sunday and holiday services went over to South Lancs Travel as well. And from last month Arriva are not only prepared to operate between Bolton and Westhoughton.

Also, Arriva are no longer prepared to operate the 535, 537 and their 538 only runs a few times per day in the evening even with subsidy.

I think the problem Arriva face is they only want profitable routes they aren't interested in routes where they are only breaking even or making a small loss - they either don't bid for the renewed contract (if contracted) or withdraw the service (if commercial.) However, doing that makes their day tickets less useful so they probably finish up selling more singles (or multi-operators where available) and less Arriva day tickets on their remaining routes.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Where Arriva have decided to invest, they've probably done a better job of it than anyone else. Sapphire is a good strong idea, well implemented.

We were in Wilmslow this morning and saw an Arriva "09" registered bus with the Sapphire logo on the side and dedicated fleet information on the 130 service that runs from Macclesfield to Manchester. It looked quite impressive. I think that "Free Wi-Fi" and other items were also shown.

 

[wellwhatitis]

I think the problem Arriva face is they only want profitable routes they aren't interested in routes where they are only breaking even or making a small loss - they either don't bid for the renewed contract (if contracted) or withdraw the service (if commercial.) However, doing that makes their day tickets less useful so they probably finish up selling more singles (or multi-operators where available) and less Arriva day tickets on their remaining routes.

You have summed it up a treat. They reduce or withdraw services that are profitable or non loss making, just not profitable enough for their margin. This in turn drives bus users in the area away resulting in lower ridership on other services too, and as you correctly say reduces the usability and demand for multi journey tickets.

In turn it allows other players who don't require the same margin of profit to get a shoe in where they previously had no chance. Then suddenly Arriva end up fighting mini battles everywhere, which in itself has a cost. It is an express route to decline, as proved by First in many areas, particularly the former Midland Red West which they totally destroyed using this business model. I really hope Arriva realise the error of their ways before it is too late.

 

[450.emu]

In London TGM who operate the TfL route E10 in Ealing (all 10 buses at Heathrow, lol), Arriva Kent Thameside / Southern Counties (TfL work), Arriva the Shires Garston garage (Watford, TfL work) has all come under the Arriva London umbrella. Other Shires operations have been moved from Watford to other areas in the Shires (now part of Arriva Midlands, or share the same MD - all very confusing :roll: ) It has all been run from Wood Green (16 Watsons Road) as of New Years Day 2016... the O Licences and fleet numbers will have to be sorted, though it looks like the London operations won't follow the Provincial numbering system but will continue with the TfL fleet numbers (i.e DW471) ... didn't know how old this thread was before I resuscitated it :roll:

 

[overthewater]

I wonder if National Express would buy a few of the operations?

 

[Robertj21a]

I wonder if National Express would buy a few of the operations?

???? do what ? - can you explain please.

 

[overthewater]

???? do what ? - can you explain please.

I don't understand your post. :-? The whole thread is about how Arriva is being restructuring or part sell off.

I wonder if National Express would buy a few of the operations?

Would National express want to by certain assets off Arriva.

 

[Robertj21a]

I don't understand your post. :-? The whole thread is about how Arriva is being restructuring or part sell off.


Would National express want to by certain assets off Arriva.

I'm struggling to guess what Arriva assets are likely to be of any interest to NX ?

 

[winston270twm]

I'm struggling to guess what Arriva assets are likely to be of any interest to NX ?

Possibly Arriva NW (for former Merseyside PTE op) and possibly London, other than that Arriva Bus Op's aren't that attractive

 

[overthewater]

Possibly Arriva NW (for former Merseyside PTE op) and possibly London, other than that Arriva Bus Op's aren't that attractive

I was also thinking of Leicester and Derby

 

[winston270twm]

I was also thinking of Leicester and Derby

Forgot about those, although not on the scale of Merseyside & London

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I'm struggling to guess what Arriva assets are likely to be of any interest to NX ?

I'm sorry and this may be where you're coming from - this does smack of "we've exhausted things that First may sell off.....hey, let's have some speculation on Arriva now"

FWIW, one of the best performing is Arriva Yorkshire!

 

[Robertj21a]

I'm sorry and this may be where you're coming from - this does smack of "we've exhausted things that First may sell off.....hey, let's have some speculation on Arriva now"

FWIW, one of the best performing is Arriva Yorkshire!

Well done, my thoughts entirely !

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's very odd.

Where Arriva have decided to invest, they've probably done a better job of it than anyone else. Sapphire is a good strong idea, well implemented, although I don't see the point of Max, which is basically Sapphire but not quite as good. Their live bus tracking app is very good and genuinely innovative, as is their m-ticketing.

They were the first to roll out m-ticketing across their entire non-London networking, and very useful it is too (just needs single fares adding, perhaps purchased as some kind of carnet). And the live tracking app is very useful, takes all the guesswork out of bus travel particularly where there are connections.

I don't like Sapphire, though; it's a weak imitation of Stagecoach Gold with chavvy blue lighting and cheap, flickery[1] LEDs. And I agree about Max, I don't get why they have two brands and didn't just brand them Sapphire.

[1] East Coast can also have that levelled at them.

 

[overthewater]

I'm sorry and this may be where you're coming from - this does smack of "we've exhausted things that First may sell off.....hey, let's have some speculation on Arriva now"

FWIW, one of the best performing is Arriva Yorkshire!

That thought never cross my mind, The reason for asking was because it was stated in the First post: DB is considering 'part privatising of Arriva or presumably by offering shares for sale to interested parties.

I for one don't see how Nat Express would want to go near First with all that debt, So the main question has to be would Nat Expess buy a few of the operations? in connection to any part privatising. I never mentioned any areas I just asked in general would there consider? It wasn't until someone else chipped in about the areas, so I never go the ball rolling there.

My main question still stand would National Express buy a few of the operations? Or would there just look and go meh.

 

[winston270twm]

That thought never cross my mind, The reason for asking was because it was stated in the First post: DB is considering 'part privatising of Arriva or presumably by offering shares for sale to interested parties.

I for one don't see how Nat Express would want to go near First with all that debt, So the main question has to be would Nat Expess buy a few of the operations? in connection to any part privatising. I never mentioned any areas I just asked in general would there consider? It wasn't until someone else chipped in about the areas, so I never go the ball rolling there.

My main question still stand would National Express buy a few of the operations? Or would there just look and go meh.

But Arriva aren't looking to sell any of their op's, at most DB may be looking at floating the Arriva part of their business on the stock market to raise funds for acquisitions / debt. DB have a growing debt mountain & must be feeling the pinch from the German Railways being privatised . DB have already lost a number of franchises to NX, Abellio & Go-Ahead Group, this must also be putting renewal prices under pressure for any franchises that DB manages to retain.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

That thought never cross my mind, The reason for asking was because it was stated in the First post: DB is considering 'part privatising of Arriva or presumably by offering shares for sale to interested parties.

I for one don't see how Nat Express would want to go near First with all that debt, So the main question has to be would Nat Expess buy a few of the operations? in connection to any part privatising. I never mentioned any areas I just asked in general would there consider? It wasn't until someone else chipped in about the areas, so I never go the ball rolling there.

My main question still stand would National Express buy a few of the operations? Or would there just look and go meh.

Firstly, not a case of picking anyone out but even saying "I never started it" doesn't excuse you.

For the record, that isn't what part privatisation means (I.e selling chunks off). It is about selling a shareholding on the open market to get finance to reduce the debt.

As was stated last July by the CEO Rudiger Grube...

Options for a part-privatisation of DB Arriva and DB Schenker Logistics are to be presented to the supervisory board meeting scheduled for December 16, with the potential involvement of third parties ‘to boost strategic development and finance further growth’. Grube emphasised that ‘nothing has been decided’, and he wished ‘to make it perfectly clear that we are not considering selling off these companies. On the contrary, we will retain business management control of both DB Arriva and DB Schenker Logistics.’

Could it be more clear?

 

[overthewater]

As was stated last July by the CEO Rudiger Grube...

Options for a part-privatisation of DB Arriva and DB Schenker Logistics are to be presented to the supervisory board meeting scheduled for December 16, with the potential involvement of third parties ‘to boost strategic development and finance further growth’. Grube emphasised that ‘nothing has been decided’, and he wished ‘to make it perfectly clear that we are not considering selling off these companies. On the contrary, we will retain business management control of both DB Arriva and DB Schenker Logistics.’

Could it be more clear?

No, but I've not seen that before. Maybe I should have.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
####

A Better question has to be, who would be interested in buying shares in Arriva UK BUS? Where would the best place be for growth outside Yorkshire?

 

[Volvodart]

No, but I've not seen that before. Maybe I should have.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
####

A Better question has to be, who would be interested in buying shares in Arriva UK BUS? Where would the best place be for growth outside Yorkshire?

They are not selling shares in UK Bus, it is the whole of Arriva.

 

[overthewater]

They are not selling shares in UK Bus, it is the whole of Arriva.

Just to check, you mean ALL of Arriva PLC, which includes European operations as well? Not just the UK side.

 

[winston270twm]

Just to check, you mean ALL of Arriva PLC, which includes European operations as well? Not just the UK side.

Yes. All of Arriva as a group I.e. as it was previously listed prior to the DB takeover

 

[nottinghamcity]

I'm struggling to guess what Arriva assets are likely to be of any interest to NX ?

I suspect anything in the Midlands could prove of interest, but anything contiguous with their Wolverhampton or Coventry operations especially.

 

[Robertj21a]

I suspect anything in the Midlands could prove of interest, but anything contiguous with their Wolverhampton or Coventry operations especially.

Can't think of anything Arriva very close to Coventry though the small, probably loss-making, Hinckley Bus is not too far way. Anything like the Leicester operation would be more attractive to the likes of Stagecoach.

In any event, they're not trying to sell off parts of Arriva.