Where is Salford?

[HowardGWR]

Google Maps /Earth give the centre of Salford being at Seedley Park Road junction, about 2.2 miles from Salford Central Station!!

Is this a Google error? Looking at the locations in Street View it's difficult, as a stranger, to divine where the centre is. Looking at all the high rise (and noting the then sadly nearby boarded up shops and pubs), one would think Salford Crescent station was a bit more 'central'.

Some local knowledge would be appreciated.

 

[Amy Worrall]

I think the lack of a 'town centre' has been a problem for Salford in the past.

Whenever I've had occasion to go there, it's been to Salford Quays, which are accessible by tram. I've only used Salford's train stations to change train.

 

[Harlesden]

No city centre and part of the city built over an ancient peat bog

 

[sheff1]

Salford Central is located near to the historic centre of Salford which is the area in the bend of the River Irwell opposite Manchester Cathedral.

City of Salford Metropolitan Borough covers a much larger area and it is hard to pin down where the 'centre' is. The Civic Centre is in the former Swinton Town Hall, Salford Quays is obviously thriving, the Crescent area has the University and various other grand buildings.

 

[telstarbox]

Google Maps shows (in pink) the boundary of the entire 'City of Salford' (i.e. the area covered by Salford City Council), one of the ten local authorities of Greater Manchester:

http://goo.gl/maps/Te9ne

As you can see it's quite a diverse borough, going from the rural areas of Irlam and Chat Moss, to affluent areas such as Boothstown and Worsley, to the high-density estates around Pendleton and Ordsall, the regenerated area of Salford Quays, to the edge of Manchester city centre.

The nearest to a 'town centre' is Salford Shopping Centre at Pendleton, which is also where most of the bus routes call. Swinton, Walkden and Eccles are smaller towns in their own right within the district.

Salford Council are trying to establish the Quays/MediaCity area as a new town centre.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

According to the ever reliable Wikipedia, Salford is unique in having no identifiable city centre, although you could perhaps consider Salford Shopping Precinct as a "centre" of sorts.

Nearest railway station to there was Pendleton, but that closed in 1998 (!)

 

[WatcherZero]

Way its going in a few decades there may be an identifiable centre at Media City if it continues to attract leisure and retail at the current pace but at the moment closest thing is indeed Salford Shopping Precinct, though Eccles and Walkden have sizeable town centres. Trafford is similar, theres no town of Trafford and the largest centre is Stretford.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The town hall is based in Swinton.

 

[northwichcat]

Way its going in a few decades there may be an identifiable centre at Media City if it continues to attract leisure and retail at the current pace but at the moment closest thing is indeed Salford Shopping Precinct, though Eccles and Walkden have sizeable town centres. Trafford is similar, theres no town of Trafford and the largest centre is Stretford.

There is a key difference between Salford and Trafford in that Salford has been a city since 1926 (and was a town before that) while if the government had opted against local council reorganisation in the 1970s then Trafford would not exist. Trafford is like Halton in the naming respect in that instead of opting to call the borough after the largest town in it they used a landmark as inspiration for the naming.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The current town hall was opened in 1937 is based in Swinton. It is of a neo-classical style with a clock tower. The official year of opening was 1938.

 

[northwichcat]

Salford Council are trying to establish the Quays/MediaCity area as a new town centre.

The issue with that is some Salford residents see Salford Quays/MediaCity as something for the 'outsiders' and not something for them so won't see it as the centre of their city.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

There is a key difference between Salford and Trafford in that Salford has been a city since 1926 (and was a town before that) while if the government had opted against local council reorganisation in the 1970s then Trafford would not exist. Trafford is like Halton in the naming respect in that instead of opting to call the borough after the largest town in it they used a landmark as inspiration for the naming.

I think that the same naming matter to that of Trafford was also applied to Tameside.

The extremely large and varied industry base of Trafford Park may have had some bearing upon why Trafford was chosen.

 

[markem41]

Trafford is similar, theres no town of Trafford and the largest centre is Stretford.

Altrincham?

 

[St Rollox]

I thought the Bingo Hall was the city centre.
Place looked liked 1960s planning gone mad.
Horrible place and tragic for those left to live in it.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Altrincham?

Looking into the long history of the town of Altrincham, the name Trafford as being connected to post-Norman family names or any events happening there has not any connection as far as I have been able to trace.

Has anyone else any further news ?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Salford Central is located near to the historic centre of Salford which is the area in the bend of the River Irwell opposite Manchester Cathedral.
City of Salford Metropolitan Borough covers a much larger area and it is hard to pin down where the 'centre' is. The Civic Centre is in the former Swinton Town Hall, Salford Quays is obviously thriving, the Crescent area has the University and various other grand buildings.

Salford Hundred was enormous and used to include Manchester, as well as Ashton, Oldham, Rochdale, Bury and Bolton.
Its southern and eastern boundary dividing it from Cheshire was the Mersey and Tame.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundred_of_Salford

If it still existed, Manchester Exchange station would have a good case for its location to be called "the centre of Salford".

 

[HowardGWR]

I am so grateful to all who took the trouble to reply. None of them really explained to me why 'Salford Central' is so-named. However the contributions did explain the identity crisis. It seems to me we are talking of just another Manchester inner suburb with all the contrasts of opportunity vs the lack of it. I am so glad my destiny did not end up with being born in Pendleton and I feel so sorry for the poor people who know nothing else. I seem to remember that J Paxman did a 'return visit' feature to Salford every now and then on Newsnight. I don't know if he still does.

On the station itself, it's not clear to me what its purpose is. It is too far from the centre to be useful for accessing that and there doesn't seem to be much proper housing nearby so I can't fathom why they spent all that money on the admittedly rather fine glasshouse style entrance under the viaduct.

Again, any ideas on this?

 

[markem41]

Looking into the long history of the town of Altrincham, the name Trafford as being connected to post-Norman family names or any events happening there has not any connection as far as I have been able to trace.

Has anyone else any further news ?

Sorry Paul, misunderstanding - I meant the largest centre in Trafford (apart from The Trafford Centre) is surely Altrincham rather than Stretford, as posted by WatcherZero. As for the name Trafford, if the Conservative choice had been voted successful in 1973, we would be referring to Watlingford!

 

[snail]

I am so grateful to all who took the trouble to reply. None of them really explained to me why 'Salford Central' is so-named. [...]

On the station itself, it's not clear to me what its purpose is. It is too far from the centre to be useful for accessing that and there doesn't seem to be much proper housing nearby so I can't fathom why they spent all that money on the admittedly rather fine glasshouse style entrance under the viaduct.

On the contrary, it is in a very good location for the offices around the Crown Court and Spinningfields area. There is a steady custom, especially in the mornings and evenings (including me).

AFAIK road distances to Salford are calculated to Bexley Square, which is just off the A6 near station. The original Salford Town Hall is there, nearby the RC Cathedral. Pendleton has always been the shopping district.

 

[WatcherZero]

Sorry Paul, misunderstanding - I meant the largest centre in Trafford (apart from The Trafford Centre) is surely Altrincham rather than Stretford, as posted by WatcherZero. As for the name Trafford, if the Conservative choice had been voted successful in 1973, we would be referring to Watlingford!

Retail wise they are pretty close, Altrincham is CACI ranked 227th in the country while Stretford is 234th, however theres more civic and entertainment related buildings in Stretford making it a broader destination. Altrincham also has one of the highest retail vacancy rates (highest rate nationwide in 2010) and lowest independent retailers in the country despite its affluent population who have a high proportion of managerial or professional level workers, over 50% compared to a national average of 25.9%.

The Trafford name comes not from a civic heritage but from it being the Barony of Traffords land (deer park) upon which the Trafford Park, largest industrial park in Europe and first in the world was built.

 

[mildertduck]

I would suggest that the "centre" of Salford is Chapel Street, where the original Town Hall and Cathedral are located - a couple of hundred metres from Salford Central.

 

[sheff1]

None of them really explained to me why 'Salford Central' is so-named.

I thought mine did ... but there you go.

On the station itself, it's not clear to me what its purpose is. It is too far from the centre to be useful for accessing that and there doesn't seem to be much proper housing nearby

The station is well located for many major places of work across the river in Manchester. Back in the days of the Club Trains from Blackpool and Southport a high number of professional types living out on the coast travelled to/from Salford Central as opposed to Manchester Victoria.

 

[HowardGWR]

I would suggest that the "centre" of Salford is Chapel Street, where the original Town Hall and Cathedral are located - a couple of hundred metres from Salford Central.

Ah, my ignorance, apologies.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I thought mine did ... but there you go.



The station is well located for many major places of work across the river in Manchester. Back in the days of the Club Trains from Blackpool and Southport a high number of professional types living out on the coast travelled to/from Salford Central as opposed to Manchester Victoria.

Again, I missed that the old centre was indeed there, apols. I like the idea of a station that requires people to walk the last kilometre. London Bridge a good example.

How about 'Salford Chapel St' then?

 

[Welshman]

IIRC, Salford was only suffixed "Central" when Salford Crescent station opened.

So it doesn't imply the station is actually central to Salford, rather it is not Salford Crescent.

A bit like the old GNER Leeds Central, and the GC Leicester Central stations, which were a distance from the "centre" of the cities they served.

I'm intrigued that the old Manchester Exchange was actually in Salford - think of platform 11 at Victoria and 3 at Exchange linking Manchester & Salford!

Interestingly Manchester Cathedral is CofE whereas Salford Cathedral is RC - a bit of rivalry there, perhaps.

 

[fergusjbend]

The city centre of Salford is Manchester! Just like the twin cities of London and Westminster, Salford and Manchester are merely administrative constructs and do not adequately reflect the reality of Greater Manchester being one huge conurbation. During the 1920's a sort of war broke out between the two cities. Green Salford City Transport buses were prevented from travelling into Deansgate and Piccadilly by City of Manchester policemen blockading Victoria Bridge over the River Irwell. From then until only about thirty years ago, Salford buses terminated at Victoria Bus Station, just inside the boundary. In order to get a number 8 to Bolton, or a number 10 to Warrington, it was necessary to walk out of the City of Manchester across the boundary to Salford.

Before local government reorganisation when Salford absorbed Swinton and Pendlebury, Eccles and Irlam, the nearest Salford came to a city centre was at Pendleton, particularly Broad Street.

Fergus

 

[St Rollox]

Don't know if people of Salford old would regard themselves as Mancurians.
As for the buses, same thing in many UK cities.
Local corporation buses had first call inside the city.
Outsiders couldn't pick up inside the city limits travelling inwards.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Salford Hundred was enormous and used to include Manchester, as well as Ashton, Oldham, Rochdale, Bury and Bolton.
Its southern and eastern boundary dividing it from Cheshire was the Mersey and Tame.

I was quite surprised to find both the settlements of Walsden and Todmorden were incorporated into the area that was administered by the Hundred of Salford.

 

[Darren R]

When Salford Crescent station opened in 1987 some guards and station announcers started unofficially referring to Salford as "Salford Central" presumably to avoid confusion with the newly opened station to the west. This went on for a number of years - and became increasingly prevalent - despite the original station in the city still officially being merely "Salford," the name it had always borne. It wasn't until 1994 that the unofficial nickname (that by then everyone used routinely) was officially adopted in timetables and publications. Even then, I seem to recall it took another few years before the station signage was changed!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Don't know if people of Salford old would regard themselves as Mancurians.

I think that the term is Mancunians that you wished to state in your quote above. There is an area in north-eastern China referred to as Manchuria.

The older people such as I would always refer to residents of Salford as Salfordians.

 

[telstarbox]

There is still a road sign pointing to 'Salford Station' around Chapel Street.