Which Deltics ran the east coast?

[allymac59]

Good morning, I used to travel from Portsmouth to Dundee several times a year late seventies early eighties on Deltics. (From kings cross)
At the time I never took any notice of the Deltics names or numbers.
Reading up on it all I can find is a general statement that says they all ran up the east coast.
Can anyone tell me if that is true, or were there particular Deltics that ran the east coast more than others?
Thanks.

 

[SargeNpton]

All 22 locomotives in the fleet were allocated to the East Coast Main Line.

 

[Ash Bridge]

Yes, all 22 production series Class 55 Deltic locomotives ran on the East Coast main line. By the end of the 1970s though several would have become non-operational during the rundown of the fleet.

 

[Ken H]

There were not enough. They were augmented by Cl 47's. I assume they had different timing loads and separate diagrams.

Later they did end up on Trans Pennine but that was after HST.

 

[allymac59]

All 22 locomotives in the fleet were allocated to the East Coast Main Line.

Thank you

Thank you

Thank you

 

[alistairlees]

If you can remember the dates and times of your travels (I assume that's unlikely though!) then you might be able to find out which ones were involved at http://www.napier-chronicles.co.uk/

 

[allymac59]

Thanks for that. Not seen napiers before. I always travelled on a Friday from Portsmouth catching the train from kings cross after 22.00.
I found some timetables but haven’t worked out which trains they are yet!!

 

[greyman42]

There were not enough. They were augmented by Cl 47's. I assume they had different timing loads and separate diagrams.

Does anyone know if this is the case?

 

[hexagon789]

Does anyone know if this is the case?

Correct, many of the Leeds workings, the Newcastle semi-fasts and the extra trains introduced in the 1973 timetable were allocated 47s.

The 1300 King's Cross-Edinburgh and 1110 Edinburgh-King's Cross were introduced in the 1973 timetable and both allocated 47s. Even the through Aberdeen service, The Aberdonian, which was probably the next most important ECML train after The Flying Scotsman had a 47 more often than not, particularly in the mid-1970s.

The Aberdeen-York was a 47 job even after allocated air-con stock.

In general the Deltics seemed to be concentrated mainly on the Anglo-Scottish diagrams plus the "Executive" lightweight high-speed (the so-called "Deltic+8") sets on King's Cross-Leeds/Newcastle business trains at least by the mid-1970s.

 

[jfollows]

In their earlier days they had different timing loads and were identified as "Deltic hauled" in the working timetable with a black blob above the timings, see attached from 18/5/66 to 5/3/67 working timetable "Section A". So, in this example, 1N06, 1A16 and 1A18 were all "Deltic hauled". However, 1N06 and 1A16 are timed similarly whereas 1A18 runs to slower timings even though being indicated as "Deltic hauled" (I think it's the relief train to 1A16, "Flying Scotsman") ; 1A12 runs slightly slower than 1A18.
Later on I don't recall them being differentiated in the timetable, however they will clearly have had specific diagrams which they were normally expected to work.
The second post from 3/5/76 to 1/5/77 working timetable, and undoubtedly some of the services will have been Deltic-hauled, however although at first glance you might think "all of them are" you'd be incorrect because the black blob symbol has been repurposed to mean "Air conditioned and electrically heated". "+" means 100mph stock, by the way, so this could hint towards their possible Deltic haulage instead of 95mph Class 47 haulage, but would not be a guarantee for a number of potential reasons.

 

[Magdalia]

Napier Chronicles has some Deltic diagrams here:

Deltic Diagrams

napier-chronicles.co.uk

The whole ECML timetable was built around making maximum use of the Deltics, until the HSTs came in.

The daytime trains booked for Deltics were timed for Deltics

The 1300 King's Cross-Edinburgh and 1110 Edinburgh-King's Cross were introduced in the 1973 timetable and both allocated 47s.

and about 30 minutes slower end to end.

 

[Harvester]

There were not enough. They were augmented by Cl 47's. I assume they had different timing loads and separate diagrams.

Later they did end up on Trans Pennine but that was after HST.

Class 47s would frequently turn up on Deltic diagrams. I lost count of the times a Class 47 turned up when I had gone out expecting Deltic haulage in the late seventies and early eighties.

They were used on Trans Pennine trains towards the end of their careers, when all the survivors were allocated to York.

 

[Taunton]

In Edinburgh in the 1970s, colleague lived in Fife within earshot of the Aberdeen line, and commented that usage (picked from their distinctive noise) was notably random north of Edinburgh. Sometimes days went by without one, sometimes a couple a day, not always the same services, though any that went up early enough would typically come back on the sleeper. It seems the Deltic fleet was very fully programmed, but certain services were first to be knocked back to a Class 47 when one or more were off the road.

 

[hexagon789]

and about 30 minutes slower end to end.

With the advantage of allowing the preceeding "Aberdonian" a faster schedule by picking up its stops.

From memory stops at Darlington, Berwick and Dunbar were cut from the 1200 and the schedule accelerated by around 35 mins northbound.

but certain services were first to be knocked back to a Class 47 when one or more were off the road.

The Aberdonian certainly fits the bill for that, most photos I've seen of that service in about 1974-76 have a 47 not a Deltic up front.

 

[jfollows]

With the advantage of allowing the preceeding "Aberdonian" a faster schedule by picking up its stops.

From memory stops at Darlington, Berwick and Dunbar were cut from the 1200 and the schedule accelerated by around 35 mins northbound.


The Aberdonian certainly fits the bill for that, most photos I've seen of that service in about 1974-76 have a 47 not a Deltic up front.

By 1976:
1S21 11:00 King's Cross to Edinburgh 17:13 SX, calling at Peterborough, Doncaster, York, Newcastle, Berwick
1S32 12:10 King's Cross to Aberdeen, calling at Doncaster, York, Newcastle, arrived Edinburgh 18:01. Pick up only at Doncaster and York SX and Sats until 2 October - on which days there was 1N14 11:45 King's Cross to Newcastle which called at Doncaster, York, Darlington and Durham and was 6 minutes ahead of 1S32 into Newcastle.

 

[Magdalia]

By 1976:
1S21 11:00 King's Cross to Edinburgh 17:13 SX, calling at Peterborough, Doncaster, York, Newcastle, Berwick
1S32 12:10 King's Cross to Aberdeen, calling at Doncaster, York, Newcastle, arrived Edinburgh 18:01. Pick up only at Doncaster and York SX and Sats until 2 October - on which days there was 1N14 11:45 King's Cross to Newcastle which called at Doncaster, York, Darlington and Durham and was 6 minutes ahead of 1S32 into Newcastle.

1N14 1147 to Newcastle first ran in 1972, the same year that 1N12 1300 to Newcastle became 1S14 1300 to Edinburgh. 1S32 to Aberdeen was retimed from 1200 to 1210 in 1975.

I don't have the carriage diagrams, but I recall 1N14 not being a heavy train. It may even have been a load 8 set that formed the 1700 back from Newcastle?

 

[hexagon789]

By 1976:
1S21 11:00 King's Cross to Edinburgh 17:13 SX, calling at Peterborough, Doncaster, York, Newcastle, Berwick
1S32 12:10 King's Cross to Aberdeen, calling at Doncaster, York, Newcastle, arrived Edinburgh 18:01. Pick up only at Doncaster and York SX and Sats until 2 October - on which days there was 1N14 11:45 King's Cross to Newcastle which called at Doncaster, York, Darlington and Durham and was 6 minutes ahead of 1S32 into Newcastle.

Looking at my 1970 and '72 timetables -

In 1970 the 1200 (un-named) to Aberdeen made calls at Doncaster, York, Darlington, Newcastle, Berwick and Dunbar.

In 1972 it is now named the Aberdonian and omits the Darlington, Berwick and Dunbar calls and is 36 mins faster.

So I was right about the speed-up, but had the wrong year.

I don't have the carriage diagrams, but I recall 1N14 not being a heavy train. It may even have been a load 8 set that formed the 1700 back from Newcastle?

1972?

If so...

MSX - load 8, MO load 9. Terminates Newcastle. Air-Con & air-braked stock

SO until 03/06 and from 07/10 - load 10, to Newcastle. Air-braked stock

SO 10/06 to 30/09 - load 10, to Edinburgh. Air-con & air-braked stock

 

[Pinza-C55]

St Paddy and Nimbus were not used from 1978/79 so it would be true to say that they worked the east coast less than the other Deltics. I started bashing Deltics in the summer of 1978 and have a vague memory of a run behind Nimbus but no diary record of haulage behind either one.

 

[Harvester]

St Paddy and Nimbus were not used from 1978/79 so it would be true to say that they worked the east coast less than the other Deltics. I started bashing Deltics in the summer of 1978 and have a vague memory of a run behind Nimbus but no diary record of haulage behind either one.

St Paddy entered Doncaster Works (March/April time 1978) for repair, but never came back out. So summer 1978 would have been too late for 55001 haulage.

 

[Magdalia]

St Paddy and Nimbus were not used from 1978/79 so it would be true to say that they worked the east coast less than the other Deltics. I started bashing Deltics in the summer of 1978 and have a vague memory of a run behind Nimbus but no diary record of haulage behind either one.

Neither of 55001 and 55020 worked after March 1978, according to Napier Chronicles.

55004 and 55016 were also long term out of traffic around this time, 55004 from April 1978 to December 1979 and 55016 from January to September 1979. During 1979 there was a lot of doubt about whether they would return to service.

 

[Pinza-C55]

Neither of 55001 and 55020 worked after March 1978, according to Napier Chronicles.

55004 and 55016 were also long term out of traffic around this time, 55004 from April 1978 to December 1979 and 55016 from January to September 1979. During 1979 there was a lot of doubt about whether they would return to service.

Yes, that was my point.

 

[Strathclyder]

Neither of 55001 and 55020 worked after March 1978, according to Napier Chronicles.

Indeed.

55001's final working was 1S16 (King's Cross - Edinburgh) on 24th March 1978, it suffered a engine failure at Retford and that was that for St. Paddy. It was hauled to Doncaster Works and never emerged again, being officially withdrawn in January 1980 and cut up by the end of February.

55020's last revenue working on 30th March 1978 and the immediate aftermath went as follows (quoting Napier Chronicles):

6E05 Oxford - Newcastle (parcels), from York - this was the locomotives final working and was undertaken whilst restricted to one power unit. 55020 required shopping at Doncaster Works for power unit exchange, however, due to industrial action by Doncaster employees 55020 was instead held by Gateshead TMD and was heavily robbed of spares for the rest of the fleet. 55020 finally being dispatched to Doncaster on the 26th April.

Nimbus would be officially withdrawn at the same time as St.Paddy, but cutting up at Doncaster would commence within 10 days (13th January 1980), being completed by the 26th of that month, becoming the first Deltic to be scrapped.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

They very rarely worked on ECML Freightliners - and a mate of mine once allocated a rare spare on to a Kings Cross - Hertford North all stations (light engine back) , which the crew accepted with no quibble. As you would expect he got a b===ing.

 

[Cowley]

They very rarely worked on ECML Freightliners - and a mate of mine once allocated a rare spare on to a Kings Cross - Hertford North all stations (light engine back) , which the crew accepted with no quibble. As you would expect he got a b===ing.

Would that have been a 31 normally?

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Would that have been a 31 normally?

Indeed .......I guess the cunning plan saved a cancellation (and got the Deltic back to KX for a good night's work)

 

[Bevan Price]

Into the 1970s , Classes 40 & 46 also worked some ECML services, including overnight trains.

 

[Strathclyder]

Further to the topic of Deltics working north of Edinburgh, these (all copyright of scotrail.co.uk's big55012) should be of interest. All 3 images feature 55014 The Duke of Wellington's Regiment.


55014 at Montrose with the 8:50 from Edinburgh to Abderdeen - 10th April 1981


55014 at Kinnaber with the 12:40 from Aberdeen to Edinburgh - 10th April 1981


55014 at Lunan Bay with the 8:50 from Edinburgh to Aberdeen - 17th April 1981

Into the 1970s , Classes 40 & 46 also worked some ECML services, including overnight trains.

I was going to mention this, having seen several pics from that era of both classes at King's Cross. They could still appear on occasion going into the 80s.

 

[Harvester]

Indeed.

55001's final working was 1S16 (King's Cross - Edinburgh) on 24th March 1978, it suffered a engine failure at Retford and that was that for St. Paddy. It was hauled to Doncaster Works and never emerged again, being officially withdrawn in January 1980 and cut up by the end of February.

I was at Darlington on Maundy Thursday 23rd March 1978, and photographed 55001 heading north on a Kings Cross-Edinburgh working. Apparently it returned to London on the 17:00 Edinburgh-Kings Cross the same day, before failing on 24th on 1S16 as you state above.

Never realised until now, that I had witnessed St Paddy’s last northbound run through Darlington on 23/3/78. Nimbus also put in an appearance that day, but it still had another week left in service.

 

[Strathclyder]

I was at Darlington on Maundy Thursday 23rd March 1978, and photographed 55001 heading north on a Kings Cross-Edinburgh working. Apparently it returned to London on the 17:00 Edinburgh-Kings Cross the same day, before failing on 24th on 1S16 as you state above.

Never realised until now, that I had witnessed St Paddy’s last northbound run through Darlington on 23/3/78. Nimbus also put in an appearance that day, but it still had another week left in service.

You lucked out there to say the least!

Being completely candid, if I had a TARDIS, this is one of the eras I'd want to visit the most. Images from this era are very good at giving me second-hand nostalgia.

 

[hexagon789]

Being completely candid, if I had a TARDIS, this is one of the eras I'd want to visit the most. Images from this era are very good at giving me second-hand nostalgia.

You're not alone there!