Which stations should have a direct service to Manchester Airport?

[northwichcat]

With 'One North' identifying a problem in the M56 around Manchester Airport being congested and a solution in ensuring all 'major cities' in the North have a direct rail link to the Airport, is that the right solution to take?

I can't see the majority of congestion on the M56 being caused by people from places like Durham and Hull travelling to and from Manchester Airport. However, if you look at some of the towns within a commutable distance of the Airport have no regular direct public transport link to the Airport. Warrington, Macclesfield, Knutsford, Northwich, Cheadle, Chester, Congleton, Middlewich, Winsford, Irlam, Urmston are examples I can think of.

Should improving long distance links to the Airport be higher priority than improving local links?

 

[DarloRich]

and cue the my station must have a better service to Manchester Airport................

To me the current service pattern form the northern towns and cities seems sensible as part of a wider service provision into Manchester. Manchester Airport has expended to become a regional hub so draws people in form a very wide area.

 

[telstarbox]

I saw Warrington in your list and thought 'surely there are Airport trains from Warrington Central' but you're right - the Liverpool to MIA trains run via Newton-le-Willows. Having said that, it's a same platform change at Oxford Road or Piccadilly so not too arduous for Warrington passengers.

Altrincham has a direct bus which takes less than 25 minutes so rail or Metrolink would probably be no quicker.

Remember that the Airport is a growing employment site with 'Airport City' - some of the road congestion will be commuters rather than airline passengers. The Metrolink should replace some local car trips when it opens later this year.

Finally, if it's cheaper and/or simpler for a couple or family with luggage to get a door-to-door taxi (as is often the case), then the train can't really compete!

 

[northwichcat]

To me the current service pattern form the northern towns and cities seems sensible as part of a wider service provision into Manchester. Manchester Airport has expended to become a regional hub so draws people in form a very wide area.

What I'm thinking is someone from Durham might use the train to get to the Airport and back, but then it could be a year or more before they make the same journey again. Someone from Warrington or Macclesfield might work at the Airport and would make over 230 return journeys per annum but the lack of a direct public transport link may result in them finding the car a much more attractive option.
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Altrincham has a direct bus which takes less than 25 minutes so rail or Metrolink would probably be no quicker.

I didn't mean to say Altrincham. I've removed it from the OP now.

I saw Warrington in your list and thought 'surely there are Airport trains from Warrington Central' but you're right - the Liverpool to MIA trains run via Newton-le-Willows. Having said that, it's a same platform change at Oxford Road or Piccadilly so not too arduous for Warrington passengers.

...
Remember that the Airport is a growing employment site with 'Airport City' - some of the congestion will be commuters rather than airline passengers. The Metrolink should replace some local car trips when it opens later this year.

There is a token Airport service from Warrington Bank Quay and Chester but it's only a couple of services per day.

Having to change in Manchester for a Warrington-Airport journey adds 15 minutes to the journey time. An additional 15 minutes and the risk of a missed connection is probably enough to make a difference between someone considering using the train to commute and not.

 

[DarloRich]

What I'm thinking is someone from Durham might use the train to get to the Airport and back, but then it could be a year or more before they make the same journey again. Someone from Warrington or Macclesfield might work at the Airport and would make over 230 return journeys per annum but the lack of a direct public transport link may result in them finding the car a much more attractive option.

Then we need to firstly define what the purpose of services to the airport are for. Are they primarily for:

a) Locals to get to work ( do other options exist bus/tram/short car journey?)
b) Provide longer distance links for onward flight passengers
c) both ( can the infrastructure support both?)

 

[northwichcat]

Then we need to firstly define what the purpose of services to the airport are for. Are they primarily for:

a) Locals to get to work ( do other options exist bus/tram/short car journey?)
b) Provide longer distance links for onward flight passengers
c) both ( can the infrastructure support both?)

Interesting question. At the moment most Manchester Airport services are regional/long distance but for Heathrow, which gets used by passengers all around the country, all services are to/from London - no direct service to the likes of Bristol, Milton Keynes, Bedford etc and sometimes you need to do a cross-London transfer as part of a longer distance rail journey to/from Heathrow.

 

[telstarbox]

Of course, the railway layout around Piccadilly and the Airport constrains the services which done - both in terms of directions and paths.

The same applies at Heathrow which can currently only receive local trains from the east. By contrast, Gatwick, Luton, Birmingham International and Southampton Airport Parkway and Durham MegaTees Valley International are on mixed-traffic through lines so can receive a 'spider' of inter-city and local services from various directions.

 

[northwichcat]

Of course, the railway layout around Piccadilly and the Airport constrains the services which done - both in terms of directions and paths.

If the M56 is struggling the maybe we need additional infrastructure - should that be a new road or a new rail line? The Airport is on the boundary of Cheshire and Greater Manchester and the new Metrolink line will only provide links to places within Greater Manchester, some of them already having a faster heavy rail service to/from the Airport.

 

[DarloRich]

Interesting question. At the moment most Manchester Airport services are regional/long distance but for Heathrow, which gets used by passengers all around the country, all services are to/from London - no direct service to the likes of Bristol, Milton Keynes, Bedford etc and sometimes you need to do a cross-London transfer as part of a longer distance rail journey to/from Heathrow.

I meant INTO the airport but you make an interesting point: I hadn’t considered the situation regarding outbound or transferring train passengers

 

[telstarbox]

Although it's called the Airport Line, the more significant effect will be improved accessibility for Wythenshawe and the east half of Sale. The Airport is just a suitable terminus and interchange and as you say the Metrolink won't be used for trips to/from the city centre when the train is quicker.

I think there is something to be said for trains from the wider area to Manchester Airport - it serves more destinations (especially long-haul) than Liverpool, Leeds Bradford or East Midlands and so it has a larger potential catchment area.

 

[trickyvegas]

As the Denton junction on the M60 is one of the worst congestion points on the motorway, surely there is a case for a Denton-Airport service.

 

[frodshamfella]

If the M56 is struggling the maybe we need additional infrastructure - should that be a new road or a new rail line? The Airport is on the boundary of Cheshire and Greater Manchester and the new Metrolink line will only provide links to places within Greater Manchester, some of them already having a faster heavy rail service to/from the Airport.

According to the news the airport itself is struggling with queues through security as well.

 

[northwichcat]

I meant INTO the airport

Not sure what you mean as the destinations served by trains TO the Airport are mainly the same as though AWAY from the Airport. The services are:

Scotland via Wigan (operated by 350s)
Middlesbrough via York (operated by 185s)
York only (operated by 185s/170s)
Blackpool via Bolton (operated by 185s)
Cleethorpes via Sheffield (operated by 185s/170s)
Piccadilly only (operated by 323s)
Crewe (operated by 323s)
Southport (usually operated by 142s)

So most services are operated by regional stock.

 

[telstarbox]

and Liverpool via Newton-le-Willows.

 

[northwichcat]

and Liverpool via Newton-le-Willows.

Ah yes. Usually operated by 156s but will change to 319s in the near future.

 

[stockport1]

its about time the mid-Cheshire line got some investment.

reopen middlewich station
parkways at rudheath on the middlewich line and
lostock grahlam
electrify
re-double single line stretches
consider airport extention
seriously reconsider ejecting metrolink and reconverting the Altrincham line back to heavy rail.

 

[northwichcat]

its about time the mid-Cheshire line got some investment.

reopen middlewich station
parkways at rudheath on the middlewich line and
lostock grahlam
electrify
re-double single line stretches
consider airport extention
seriously reconsider ejecting metrolink and reconverting the Altrincham line back to heavy rail.

I think electrify only makes sense if you build the western Airport link then it would give the option for electric trains continuing to Chester or Liverpool via Runcorn after Manchester Airport.

Metrolink should at least consider re-routing south of Timperley rather than running on a single track bottleneck so close to a level crossing.

 

[stockport1]

I think electrify only makes sense if you build the western Airport link then it would give the option for electric trains continuing to Chester or Liverpool via Runcorn after Manchester Airport.

Metrolink should at least consider re-routing south of Timperley rather than running on a single track bottleneck so close to a level crossing.

to run any useful level of service on the line would require

1. more paths through stockport (not a chance)
2. a terminating platform at Altrincham
3. through Altrincham and on towards oxford road.

long term option 3 has to be the best alternative.
metrolink excludes the possibility of semi fast trains.
ie. northwich-knutsford-altrincham-sale-oxford road-picc-airport.

some of the stations had 4 platforms allowing stoppers and semi fasts.
airport extention allows the possibility of circulars.

metrolink is just a turd. always has been always will be.

the trams are too short,crowded and overly expensive, stop at every station and manage 40-50mph tops. they are DC pacers.

 

[WatcherZero]

They have a higher average journey speed than LU or Merseyrail

I too think the airport extension is the only practical solution, thinking long term with Hs2 Stockport capacity becomes less of an issue. This should be particularly done if there's no Liverpool/Warrington hs2 spur created with services to the airport in the final version of plans.

 

[DarloRich]

Not sure what you mean as the destinations served by trains TO the Airport are mainly the same as though AWAY from the Airport. The services are:

Scotland via Wigan (operated by 350s)
Middlesbrough via York (operated by 185s)
York only (operated by 185s/170s)
Blackpool via Bolton (operated by 185s)
Cleethorpes via Sheffield (operated by 185s/170s)
Piccadilly only (operated by 323s)
Crewe (operated by 323s)
Southport (usually operated by 142s)

So most services are operated by regional stock.

I thought you meant people landing at Manchester then using the train to reach another part of the country rather than using the train to get to and from the airport (essentially a one way train trip)

 

[northwichcat]

I thought you meant people landing at Manchester then using the train to reach another part of the country rather than using the train to get to and from the airport (essentially a one way train trip)

Does it really matter which direction they are travelling in? I think the majority of people make a return journey, albeit not on the same day and while there's some immigrants arriving in the UK, there's also Britains who leave to live abroad. Maybe UKIP think otherwise?
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They have a higher average journey speed than LU or Merseyrail

Not sure Piccadilly-Salford Quays is quicker than the equivalent distance on Merseyrail

 

[frodshamfella]

Does it really matter which direction they are travelling in? I think the majority of people make a return journey, albeit not on the same day and while there's some immigrants arriving in the UK, there's also Britains who leave to live abroad. Maybe UKIP think otherwise?
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Not sure Piccadilly-Salford Quays is quicker than the equivalent distance on Merseyrail

I don't use Merseyrail v often..but took one from Chester to Hooton, not stopping at Capenhurst, certainly had its foot down on that occasion

 

[WatcherZero]

*deleted to stay on topic*