Why Are ATW Selling 1st Class Tickets for Trains With No 1st Class?

[Envoy]

I have just been on the Arrival Trains Wales website and put in for a journey from Chepstow to Conwy & selected the 1st Class option at £109.80 one way. Now, when I clicked for information, I could see that services offered at this price were for a journey to Newport and then up The Marches to north Wales = a route with no first class capacity (except ‘Gerald’). The alternative was to go from Chepstow with Cross Country to Birmingham = a train with 1st class. Then , it would be ATW via Shrewsbury and Wrexham to get to Conwy (Conway) = a 158 with no 1st class.

Surely, in selling expensive 1st tickets on trains that they know darn well do not have 1st class, ATW are in breach of the Trades Description Act?

 

[AlterEgo]

Isn't there some sort of warning that the train selected does not convey First Class? Many booking engines have this. If ATW don't then they're probably in breach of consumer law.

 

[6Gman]

I have just been on the Arrival Trains Wales website and put in for a journey from Chepstow to Conwy & selected the 1st Class option at £109.80 one way. Now, when I clicked for information, I could see that services offered at this price were for a journey to Newport and then up The Marches to north Wales = a route with no first class capacity (except ‘Gerald’). The alternative was to go from Chepstow with Cross Country to Birmingham = a train with 1st class. Then , it would be ATW via Shrewsbury and Wrexham to get to Conwy (Conway) = a 158 with no 1st class.

Surely, in selling expensive 1st tickets on trains that they know darn well do not have 1st class, ATW are in breach of the Trades Description Act?

Wouldn't Cheltenham - Brum XC, Brum - Crewe LM or VTWC, Crewe - Junction VTWC be valid?

First Class all the way apart from the last leg to Conwy.

 

[trainophile]

On the 0951 departure from Chepstow it works out as £71.80 extra for 20 minutes of 1st Class travel. That's disgraceful, but it is probably a matter of caveat emptor. The information is all there if you take the trouble to look for it.

 

[kieron]

From what I can tell, you can't buy 1st class tickets on the ATW site if it can't find an itinerary involving at least some travel on a train with a 1st class area. For example, there are first class Mouldsworth-Stockport tickets defined, but I don't think there's any way to buy them there.

 

[najaB]

Unless they are Advance fares an itinerary is only advisory.

It is possible to make the journey solely or mainly using trains that have first class accommodation so the fare is valid for the route.

 

[Envoy]

When I put in for Newport to Shrewsbury - no first class fares appear - presumably because the system recognises that first class is not available on this route.

In the case of Chepstow to Conwy (Conway), it appears because you can travel in 1st class between Chepstow & Newport on Cross Country, the 1st class fare appears. What it does not tell you is that from Newport to Conway, you would be travelling on a train that has no 1st class.

 

[Paul Kelly]

What it does not tell you is that from Newport to Conway, you would be travelling on a train that has no 1st class.

It tells you that 1st Class isn't available on all legs - see 1st attached screenshot. If you click the (not very obvious) Details link you can even see which legs have 1st Class and which don't. So I don't think there is any scope for a complaint that it is selling you a service that isn't available, as you said originally.

It's true that the site doesn't really tell you anything specific about the facilities available on each train, i.e. whether it has 1st Class, accommodation, what is the catering provision etc. That would be a fairer criticism, and seems to apply to all Trainline-powered sites as far as I can see.

 

[30907]

NWP to SHR (and onwards) does have a service with First Class (though ATW call it Premier or some such now) on Mondays to Fridays at 17.30-ish, much discussed on these forums under loco-hauled, WAG, Gerallt, etc.... And you can book a First Advance for it according to NRE.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Chepstow has an hourly XC service to Birmingham with 1st class, and you can go on with LM or VT to Crewe and on VT on to Llandudno Jn (at certain times of day), all 1st class.
The Any Permitted fare should permit travel either way (or via Telford if that is more convenient).
This leaves precisely 1 mile of non-1st class travel on ATW from Llandudno Jn to reach Conwy.
Unfortunately the connections northbound at Crewe are poor, so there is no time advantage. Southbound the connections via Crewe/Birmingham are better.
You might also have to change at Chester as well; good peak VT service, thin off-peak.
The final mile is a problem, with only about a 2-hourly service from Llandudno Jn, and you may well end up on the same train as if you went via Newport and crawled up the Marches.
There are plenty of buses across the Conwy bridge.
You pays your money...
Then there's Gerald.

 

[tspaul26]

From what I can tell, you can't buy 1st class tickets on the ATW site if it can't find an itinerary involving at least some travel on a train with a 1st class area. For example, there are first class Mouldsworth-Stockport tickets defined, but I don't think there's any way to buy them there.

That's dashed annoying: the ATW journey planner will only show the Northern-priced 'via Altrincham' through trains, even if I expressly tell it to avoid Knutsford!

 

[Envoy]

It tells you that 1st Class isn't available on all legs - see 1st attached screenshot. If you click the (not very obvious) Details link you can even see which legs have 1st Class and which don't. So I don't think there is any scope for a complaint that it is selling you a service that isn't available, as you said originally.

It's true that the site doesn't really tell you anything specific about the facilities available on each train, i.e. whether it has 1st Class, accommodation, what is the catering provision etc. That would be a fairer criticism, and seems to apply to all Trainline-powered sites as far as I can see.

Thanks for that. I did not get through to the booking stage as I knew that it would be crazy to pay the extra for just the short hop from Chepstow to Newport in 1st class. (I just saw the prices and timings on the initial page).