Why Are People Still Testing and Subsequently Isolating With Mild or Asymptomatic Covid?

[danm14]

I don't thing the fee tests were ever accepted for travel, as far as I remember the requirement was always a certificate which you could only get from a commercial test provider.

There were several providers who would issue a negative test certificate for a nominal charge based on the result of an NHS test.

 

[Bayum]

To those saying its the "right thing to do" "to protect the vulnerable", how many other normally mild ailments which could be more servere to the vulnerable are you regularly testing for for the same reason? How many were you regularly testing for before 2020?

If I thought I had influenza, chickenpox, or even tonsillitis I would be very careful about the contact I have with others. With something like chickenpox, would you advise that you don’t worry about being in contact with pregnant women because of the issues with pregnancy and varicella virus being ‘uncommon’? No. You would avoid pregnant women as they would avoid you. COVID has a much higher impact of causing illness in a wider group of people and presents the issue of causing strain on healthcare systems that other contagious illnesses do not.

 

[Dent]

If I thought I had influenza, chickenpox, or even tonsillitis I would be very careful about the contact I have with others. With something like chickenpox, would you advise that you don’t worry about being in contact with pregnant women because of the issues with pregnancy and varicella virus being ‘uncommon’? No. You would avoid pregnant women as they would avoid you. COVID has a much higher impact of causing illness in a wider group of people and presents the issue of causing strain on healthcare systems that other contagious illnesses do not.

So how often do you test yourself for influenza, chickenpox and tonsillitis,
and how often did you before 2020?

 

[Bayum]

So how often do you test yourself for influenza, chickenpox and tonsillitis,
and how often did you before 2020?

Quite a few times for shingles and outbreaks of various sites of herpes across my body. Influenza is more challenging because there isn’t an ‘at-home kit’ that you can use to test for like you would COVID-19.

 

[nedchester]

Quite a few times for shingles and outbreaks of various sites of herpes across my body. Influenza is more challenging because there isn’t an ‘at-home kit’ that you can use to test for like you would COVID-19.

The test for influenza is…..can you get out of bed? If the answer is yes it’s not influenza!

 

[87electric]

The tests are for coronaviruses not covid specifically, so the pcr tests, when run at such high cycles, showed any residue infection from any coronavirus a person may have had previous to covid.

Spot on, Hans. I think many people, still, are either uneducated or ignorant about what a PCR test does and how the results should be interpreted. Kary Mullis, won a Nobel Prize for inventing the test, but he himself insisted that the test should not be used for diagnostic reasons. But it has been. And people have been fooled into thinking that a positive test is a proper diagnosis.

 

[Bayum]

The tests are for coronaviruses not covid specifically, so the pcr tests, when run at such high cycles, showed any residue infection from any coronavirus a person may have had previous to covid. The lft tests are probably not worth the money anyone pays for them. So the tests are not showing anything. Previous to March 2020 people stayed at home if they were to ill with a cold or flu, if they didn't feel too bad they carried on with normal life. They did not test, did not wear a mask, did not expect society to change their way of life to protect them. Nobody needs to know what cold or flu infection or virus you have, having covid or a positive test has become a badge of honour for many.

Have you got anything to back this up? References?

Spot on, Hans. I think many people, still, are either uneducated or ignorant about what a PCR test does and how the results should be interpreted. Kary Mullis, won a Nobel Prize for inventing the test, but he himself insisted that the test should not be used for diagnostic reasons. But it has been. And people have been fooled into thinking that a positive test is a proper diagnosis.

Do you have a quote for this? Considering COVID-19 was endemic after Mullis’s death is slightly problematic there.

Whilst Mullis may have said the original PCR method was not to be used for diagnostic purposes (indeed, he recognised the limitations to the method in the use of identifying viral load in patients with HIV-AIDS) the method has moved on so far now that comments from 1996 have to be taken very carefully.

 

[greyman42]

Pretty much as the thread title says - given that for some months now there has been no requirement for one to isolate / stay off work or school if infected with Covid, why does it seem so many people are still testing and staying off work for days at a time when there's no requirement to do so and in a great many cases they feel absolutely fine?

Lazy people who will find any excuse not to go to work. I would sack the lot of them.

 

[Bayum]

Lazy people who will find any excuse not to go to work. I would sack the lot of them.

In my school, you’d have to recruit for the entirety of the staff in that case! I can vouch for many other schools across the country too. What about the HCPs that have caught COVID from working in hospitals and caring for others? Ridiculous notion.

 

[Hans]

Have you got anything to back this up? References?



Do you have a quote for this? Considering COVID-19 was endemic after Mullis’s death is slightly problematic there.

Whilst Mullis may have said the original PCR method was not to be used for diagnostic purposes (indeed, he recognised the limitations to the method in the use of identifying viral load in patients with HIV-AIDS) the method has moved on so far now that comments from 1996 have to be taken very carefully.

https://cormandrostenreview.com/report/ is a good starting place to research the flaws in the test.

FOI to the many labs used to test PCR tests produced replies which stated the cycles were in excess of 35 and government bodies were advising the labs to use these high cycles.

 

[danm14]

Lazy people who will find any excuse not to go to work. I would sack the lot of them.

Provided they are not required by their employer to test or stay away from work if positive, and are actually fit to attend work (and if not, provided they return to work when they become fit to again, rather than waiting out an arbitrary "isolation period"), I agree. If they are required to test by their employer and stay away from work if positive for some half-justifiable reason (e.g. medical staff who attend to severely immunocompromised patients), I don't believe they're in the wrong for following that policy (even if I personally don't believe it should be in place), but they are in the wrong to abuse it.

On the other hand, if an employer still requires or actively encourages workers to test themselves for Covid on a regular basis and not attend work if positive for absolutely no good reason, I'm not quite sure I can muster up a single ounce of sympathy for the employer when their workers inevitably abuse this for their own gain. A famous saying about voting for the Leopards Eating People's Faces party comes to mind.

 

[Enthusiast]

The only reason for anybody to be tested for Covid is if they are ill enough to need medical treatment - and only then to determine what form that treatment should take.

As with all ailments, if you feel unwell enough so that you don't fancy venturing out, then stay in. If you feel so ill that you require medical treatment then seek it (and good luck with that). Otherwise, sensible precautions, as with colds and 'flu, to minimise contacts with those whom you know to be vulnerable, are all that is necessary. If you are asymptomatic why would you test?

With something like chickenpox, would you advise that you don’t worry about being in contact with pregnant women because of the issues with pregnancy and varicella virus being ‘uncommon’?

Taking chickenpox as an example, if you had it as an adult you would more than likely be very ill. Diseases that are traditionally contracted in childhood are notoriously more severe in adulthood. I know two people who suffered chickenpox and one with mumps and they were extremely ill indeed. Avoiding pregnant women would be the last of your worries.

...but there are still 'vulnerable' people (I was advised to shield) who shouldn't have to imprison themselves for the rest of their life to stay safe.

They've no need to imprison themselves. If they are (or believe they are) so vulnerable they can purchase and wear an FFP2 or FFP2 face mask. Worn correctly and treated properly this will give them about 99% protection against airborne viruses and it will not matter to them what others do. The rest of the population cannot be expected to fanny about (for the rest of their lives) taking tests and avoiding contact with people.

Covid is here to stay. But the pandemic is over.

 

[the sniper]

I tested positive but my routine didn't change. I went to work, got the train, socialised etc

Do you wash you hands after using a public toilet or is sharing caring on that front too? Hopefully that isn't a decision tied up in an ideological battle for liberty, as there's no law against it...

 

[Bayum]

https://cormandrostenreview.com/report/ is a good starting place to research the flaws in the test.

FOI to the many labs used to test PCR tests produced replies which stated the cycles were in excess of 35 and government bodies were advising the labs to use these high cycles.

Which whilst scientifically sound and adequate in the early stages of the pandemic when no available data was available, was rapidly outclassed and become more primitive as expertise and genomic sequencing and adapting PCR testing for specific aspects of the COVID-19 virus moved on.

 

[Cdd89]

COVID has a much higher impact of causing illness in a wider group of people and presents the issue of causing strain on healthcare systems that other contagious illnesses do not.

Notwithstanding this highly dubious claim, I’d counter that many major airlines now expect passengers to fly with mild cases of Covid (or, as has always been the case, other illness) — since Book With Confidence programmes have ended and mainstream insurance is only likely to cover actual illness (or isolation mandates); not merely positive tests.

 

[Bayum]

Notwithstanding this highly dubious claim, I’d counter that many major airlines now expect passengers to fly with mild cases of Covid (or, as has always been the case, other illness) — since Book With Confidence programmes have ended and mainstream insurance is only likely to cover actual illness (or isolation mandates); not merely positive tests.

The thread wasn’t about what people do or expect to do, it was why people are still isolating. People will do what they want. I think that’s selfish. The vast majority of people I know continue to self-isolate for reasons mentioned above.

Taking chickenpox as an example, if you had it as an adult you would more than likely be very ill. Diseases that are traditionally contracted in childhood are notoriously more severe in adulthood. I know two people who suffered chickenpox and one with mumps and they were extremely ill indeed. Avoiding pregnant women would be the last of your worries.

Granted but again, many adults and children do not know immediately if they are ill with chickenpox or mumps, adult or otherwise.

I would also suggest you read up on the dangers of varicella infection for developing foetuses. There’s a reason pregnant women are told to actively avoid individuals with rubella and chickenpox amongst others.

 

[Enthusiast]

Granted but again, many adults and children do not know immediately if they are ill with chickenpox or mumps, adult or otherwise.

I would also suggest you read up on the dangers of varicella infection for developing foetuses. There’s a reason pregnant women are told to actively avoid individuals with rubella and chickenpox amongst others.

And many people (adults and children) would not know immediately if they have contracted SARS-Cov-2. In fact, many people would never know as they are asymptomatic and do not test routinely.

I know of the dangers to pregnant women you describe. I suggest this is a little off topic

The vast majority of people I know continue to self-isolate for reasons mentioned above.

And I know of nobody who does or would. As I said, those who are particularly vulnerable to airborne respiratory diseases can take their own precautions. That is far more reliable and far less unreasonable.

 

[BJames]

It's still required to show a negative test to be admitted to visit a care home or hospital, which seems perfectly reasonable. At the care home I visit, they let me see my friend in the garden without a test and without masking up.

It wasn't when I went last week. See: https://www.mtw.nhs.uk/2022/06/latest-information-on-the-coronavirus/

Although from 1 April 2022 lateral flow testing for COVID-19 is not routinely required, if you have tests available we would advise you to take one within 24 hours prior to travelling to our sites to help minimise the risk to our patients.

Having recently visited this hospital on a visit I can confirm that people are freely walking in and out, visiting is taking place as normal and nobody is checking for any LFT results - you can walk straight through to the Ward if you know where you are going.

Care home - I was under the impression that the actual legal requirement for this had gone but many places are still opting to ask/require visitors to test. Certainly the one I visit asks you to do a test before you come, but experience tells me its pretty 50/50 whether or not they'll actually ask you on the door (and the times they do ask, it's usually an incredibly cursory glance at most).

 

[johnnychips]

I had to go to a hospital recently for a day procedure and did not have to take a test, though I was asked if I had any COVID symptoms.

 

[Jamiescott1]

Do you wash you hands after using a public toilet or is sharing caring on that front too? Hopefully that isn't a decision tied up in an ideological battle for liberty, as there's no law against it...

Yes I do as diseases in faeces are potentially deadly. A type of minor cold however.

 

[yorkie]

Although there is no legal requirement to isolate, the advice is still to do so.

How are people supposed to know they have it? And do you apply the same logic to other viruses?

This isn't for your benefit, it is for societys benefit.

The best thing for society is for us to reach endemic equilibrium; delaying that does not offer any benefits to anyone.

Also right now it benefits society if we generate more immunity now, in the Summer, before the Winter. To claim otherwise demonstrates a lack of understanding on your part.

Sure, covid isn't the threat it was

That's an understatement.

but there are still 'vulnerable' people (I was advised to shield) who shouldn't have to imprison themselves for the rest of their life to stay safe.

What do you mean by this? It makes no sense.

Everyone is going to be exposed to Sars-CoV-2, multiple times, in our lifetimes.

Yes someone who distrusts vaccines could imprison themselves for life in an attempt to avoid ever being exposed to the virus, but unless they have zero contact with other humans, it will be futile.

Iirc isolation is now 5 days, which is proportionate to the reduced risk.

Isolation is zero days as far as I am concerned.

On a tangent though - I'm sure comments about Christmas Covid are spot on and its a sad endictment.

It's simply sad that some people are not prepared to go about their normal lives at this point.

The thread wasn’t about what people do or expect to do, it was why people are still isolating. People will do what they want. I think that’s selfish.

If anyone is being selfish, it is those who are isolating and/or pressuring others to do so.

The vast majority of people I know continue to self-isolate for reasons mentioned above.

You can't know many people who are representative of the average population then.

That said, if you are referring to people isolating by not going to work, I am sure some people do use it as an excuse not to go into work; those people are less likely to not do other activities, however!

Granted but again, many adults and children do not know immediately if they are ill with chickenpox or mumps, adult or otherwise.

I would also suggest you read up on the dangers of varicella infection for developing foetuses. There’s a reason pregnant women are told to actively avoid individuals with rubella and chickenpox amongst others.

I've no idea what this has to do with Covid, but the average person will not know they have a Sars-CoV-2 infection and will quite rightly carry on their lives as normal. Anyone not doing this should answer this: what is your exit strategy?

If I thought I had influenza, chickenpox, or even tonsillitis I would be very careful about the contact I have with others. With something like chickenpox, would you advise that you don’t worry about being in contact with pregnant women because of the issues with pregnancy and varicella virus being ‘uncommon’? No. You would avoid pregnant women as they would avoid you. COVID has a much higher impact of causing illness in a wider group of people and presents the issue of causing strain on healthcare systems that other contagious illnesses do not.

You cannot avoid the fact you will be exposed to such viruses multiple times in your lifetime. Trying to avoid exposure to viruses is not going to improve your immune response when you are inevitably exposed. Your claim about Sars-CoV-2 is unreferenced and unverified, and sounds false to me. Do you have a reliable source to back up your claim?

Sensible thing to do in my opinion. You don’t know who you may encounter and inadvertently cause illness to or how that’s going to impact subsequent close contacts etc. It’s five days.

How can it be sensible to isolate when the average person isn't going to know they have it?

Also why would you want to reduce peoples exposure to the virus right now, when everyone who wants to be vaccinated is vaccinated and it is Summer? Attempting to delay the onset of endemic equilibrium is both futile and counter productive; or are you claiming the virus will disappear? Your argument defies all logic.

The test for influenza is…..can you get out of bed? If the answer is yes it’s not influenza!

In terms of the fact we colloquially - but quite incorrectly - refer to having flu to mean any respiratory virus (other than Sars-CoV-2) with more severe symptoms as being "flu", while having milder symptoms of any virus (including influenza but not including Sars-CoV-2) as a "cold", then yes what you say is right, but from a technical point of view it's not right at all.

In reality around half of influenza infections are likely to be asymptomatic, and of those that are symptomatic, the symptoms can be very mild in many cases.

Asymptomatic transmission and high community burden of seasonal influenza in an urban and a rural community in South Africa, 2017–18 (PHIRST): a population cohort study

Approximately half of influenza infections were symptomatic, with asymptomatic individuals transmitting influenza to 6% of household contacts. This suggests that strategies, such as quarantine and isolation, might be ineffective to control influenza. Vaccination of children, with the aim of...

www.thelancet.com

Approximately half of influenza infections were symptomatic, with asymptomatic individuals transmitting influenza to 6% of household contacts. This suggests that strategies, such as quarantine and isolation, might be ineffective to control influenza....

 

[the sniper]

Yes I do as diseases in faeces are potentially deadly. A type of minor cold however.

Only potentially. I know people who have died from Covid, but I've never known someone die from catching a disease they caught off faeces on a door handle. But don't get me wrong, I'm glad you take a sensible precautionary approach to that though.

Ignoring Covid. Personally if I know I have a cold, I wouldn't be unnecessarily mixing/socialising with people, as I wouldn't presume the sheer value of me being in others presence was worth them getting my cold... but then, I've never considered it as failing to exercise my legal right to do what I liked as a free man.

 

[DelayRepay]

Ignoring Covid. Personally if I know I have a cold, I wouldn't be unnecessarily mixing/socialising with people, as I wouldn't presume the sheer value of me being in others presence was worth them getting my cold... but then, I've never considered it as failing to exercise my legal right to do what I liked as a free man.

I am the same. I've always stayed away from work (but always been able to work from home, and had an employer who has a fair sick pay policy, I know not everyone's that lucky).

I wouldn't avoid seeing friends, but I would tell them I was under the weather so they could decide whether they wanted to be near me or not.

 

[greyman42]

In my school, you’d have to recruit for the entirety of the staff in that case!

So why are they still testing for covid when there is no need to and staying of work when they feel fine?

 

[Dai Corner]

So why are they still testing for covid when there is no need to and staying of work when they feel fine?

Because they can, they won't lose any pay, they won't be criticised in their back-to-work interview or performance review, and a fellow teacher gets a week's supply work.

 

[43066]

In my school, you’d have to recruit for the entirety of the staff in that case!

It sounds like your colleagues are testing in order to justify taking time off work. If the school has any sense (and I realise that’s by no means certain!) it will rigorously enforce its attendance at work policy.

 

[Bayum]

It sounds like your colleagues are testing in order to justify taking time off work. If the school has any sense (and I realise that’s by no means certain!) it will rigorously enforce its attendance at work policy.

Yep, we are all desperate for time off whilst being held over targets to get our children back to where they were pre COVID-19. Think we have time to be off as and when?

So why are they still testing for covid when there is no need to and staying of work when they feel fine?

Who said they felt fine? One colleague was unwell and another was asked to test to accompany his wife into hospital to see her psych-committed mother-in-law. Tested positive. No hospital visit and the ruling from HR was work from home via government suggestion.

 

[43066]

Yep, we are all desperate for time off whilst being held over targets to get our children back to where they were pre COVID-19. Think we have time to be off as and when?

Well it sounds like some teachers think they do. You’re the one who said people with no symptoms are testing and isolating, despite being well enough to work!

 

[bramling]

Well it sounds like some teachers think they do. You’re the one who said people with no symptoms are testing and isolating, despite being well enough to work!

People to need to be mature enough to realise that all this taking time off when not absolutely necessary is directly contributing to the whole cost-push inflation situation from which we are suffering. Quite simply, high levels of absence will be contributing to lower productivity and/or higher costs for businesses, which will of course be fed through to the consumer.

I hope people judge their freeby weeks off here and there were worth it when they find their finances under pressure later in the year.

 

[Dai Corner]

People to need to be mature enough to realise that all this taking time off when not absolutely necessary is directly contributing to the whole cost-push inflation situation from which we are suffering. Quite simply, high levels of absence will be contributing to lower productivity and/or higher costs for businesses, which will of course be fed through to the consumer.

I hope people judge their freeby weeks off here and there were worth is when they find their finances under pressure later in the year.

Or in the public sector less money for pay rises.