Why aren't e-Tickets available when journeys include two e-Ticket enabled TOCs

[ianBR]

Hello

If a buy a ticket from Brighton to London I can select an e-ticket (Thameslink), and can do the same from London to York (LNER)

However it is not possible to select an eTicket when buying a ticket from Brighton to York.

Why is that? Surely there is an industry standard on how to translate any particular ticket type into the corresponding QR code, rather than each TOC using their own formats?

 

[Nunners]

Hello

If a buy a ticket from Brighton to London I can select an e-ticket (Thameslink), and can do the same from London to York (LNER)

However it is not possible to select an eTicket when buying a ticket from Brighton to York.

Why is that? Surely there is an industry standard on how to translate any particular ticket type into the corresponding QR code, rather than each TOC using their own formats?

London Underground don't accept e-tickets. As this is a journey that can be used on the underground, it's not issued as an e-ticket

 

[py_megapixel]

The ticket you are looking at would be valid to travel Brighton-Victoria then Kings Cross - York. Because of this, it is valid to travel from Victoria to Kings Cross on the London Underground, and TfL don't accept e-tickets.

 

[Watershed]

It's also worth noting that this can also be because of differences in who sets the fares.

For example, Dunbar to Edinburgh interavailable fares are set by LNER, and are available as an e-ticket. Edinburgh to Lockerbie fares are set by TPE and are also available as an e-ticket. However Dunbar to Lockerbie fares are set by ScotRail and are therefore not available as an e-ticket.

 

[ianBR]

Ah I should have added that the ticket is an Advance ticket using Thameslink (via St Pancras) so wouldn't be valid on the underground but I can see why tickets via Victoria wouldn't work.

Another annoying issue is that every single time I collect such a paper ticket from the ticket machines at Brighton it doesn't work in the barriers and I have to queue up to get through the attended gate. I can't understand why a ticket starting in Brighton that hasn't been used and only just issued can fail to work in barriers at that departure station.

 

[Hadders]

The ticket barriers at GTR operated stations are often programmed to reject Advance tickets so that staff can manually check your travelling in accordance with your itinerary.

 

[miklcct]

Ah I should have added that the ticket is an Advance ticket using Thameslink (via St Pancras) so wouldn't be valid on the underground but I can see why tickets via Victoria wouldn't work.

Another annoying issue is that every single time I collect such a paper ticket from the ticket machines at Brighton it doesn't work in the barriers and I have to queue up to get through the attended gate. I can't understand why a ticket starting in Brighton that hasn't been used and only just issued can fail to work in barriers at that departure station.

All Advance tickets from Brighton to York are routed "✠LNER & Connections" or "XC & Connections".

The former is intended for use with a connection between Brighton and London, for example, the ticket can also be sold against an itinerary on a Southern train from Brighton to Victoria before taking the LNER train to York.

Therefore your ticket always come with Underground validity despite you will be booked on a route which you can't use the Underground.

It's really annoying that these Advance tickets are routed in a way to allow crossing London by the Underground, despite the normal routing won't involve the Underground or even London. For example, Advance tickets from Bournemouth to East Grinstead are routed "✠SWR & Connections" despite that the normal route won't involve London at all.

 

[TEW]

The Trainline have been known to issue E Tickets in similar situations to this, where the route is +Any Permitted but the selected itinerary does not include travel on the Underground. I have seen a few examples of tickets from Thameslink stations North of London to SWR stations, where I assume the itinerary selected has involved a change at London Bridge and Waterloo East.

 

[sor]

London Underground don't accept e-tickets. As this is a journey that can be used on the underground, it's not issued as an e-ticket

Are there any plan to fix this? I assume there has to be something done to assist with the eventual removal of orange tickets.

Seems like an omission that journeys involving Crossrail are also part of this, since it's brand new

 

[Adam Williams]

The Trainline have been known to issue E Tickets in similar situations to this, where the route is +Any Permitted but the selected itinerary does not include travel on the Underground. I have seen a few examples of tickets from Thameslink stations North of London to SWR stations, where I assume the itinerary selected has involved a change at London Bridge and Waterloo East.

I think there's been some discussion on this before, but TTL would appear to ignore the data in RCS and decide themselves whether to fulfill to eTicket or not.

 

[Wallsendmag]

We are thinking of ways around this problem EG routing tickets AP London not Underground.

Are there any plan to fix this? I assume there has to be something done to assist with the eventual removal of orange tickets.

Seems like an omission that journeys involving Crossrail are also part of this, since it's brand new

Theres been a lot of talk and it actually sounds like we may be getting somewhere at last.

 

[CyrusWuff]

On a related note, London Underground's "Ticketing and Revenue Update" issue 138 (obtained through this FOI request) contains a list of 20 LU stations that MAY be considered for having barcode readers installed on some gates. Those being:

• Amersham
• Chalfont & Latimer
• Chorleywood
• Farringdon
• Finsbury Park
• Greenford
• Harrow & Wealdstone
• Harrow-on-the-Hill
• Highbury & Islington
• Kentish Town
• Moorgate
• Old Street
• Rickmansworth
• Seven Sisters
• South Ruislip
• Stratford
• Wembley Central
• West Brompton
• West Ham
• West Ruislip

 

[yorkie]

Hello

If a buy a ticket from Brighton to London I can select an e-ticket (Thameslink), and can do the same from London to York (LNER)

However it is not possible to select an eTicket when buying a ticket from Brighton to York.

Why is that? Surely there is an industry standard on how to translate any particular ticket type into the corresponding QR code, rather than each TOC using their own formats?

What's your itinerary exactly and what ticket(s) were you issued with and what price?

We are thinking of ways around this problem EG routing tickets AP London not Underground.

As long as they are additional and cheaper, to compensate for the loss of routeing options, then good idea.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Are there any plan to fix this? I assume there has to be something done to assist with the eventual removal of orange tickets.

No, apart from the short list of stations mentioned up thread TfL are pushing for these tickets to be retailed via smart cards not bar codes.

 

[JonathanH]

We are thinking of ways around this problem EG routing tickets AP London not Underground.

That would be a right nuisance for some through journeys now Thameslink longer distance services have counted place reservations, particularly on routes where Southern trains don't, or the quota available on the Thameslink services is at a higher price level than the quota available on the LNER train.

 

[ianBR]

I've occasionally bought Brighton-York advance tickets that say LNER & Connections where the ticket reservation coupon only has the LNER leg and doesn't specify a reserved train for the Brighton to London leg (although the itinerary will obviously suggest one).

This makes it even more ridiculous that the tickets are not accepted at the barriers in Brighton as the people manning the gates would clearly have no idea which train I should be catching.

I've never once seen anyone at any barrier asking to see the reservation coupon regardless. It would cause chaos if they had to check that each time. I once nearly missed my initial train as there was a queue of about 10 people at the manned gate and there was clearly a dispute with the person at the front

 

[furlong]

Another annoying issue is that every single time I collect such a paper ticket from the ticket machines at Brighton it doesn't work in the barriers and I have to queue up to get through the attended gate. I can't understand why a ticket starting in Brighton that hasn't been used and only just issued can fail to work in barriers at that departure station.

Next time it does this, look for the numeric code displayed on the ticket gate and make a note of it then report it here as that will indicate the reason.

 

[DelayRepay]

On a related note, London Underground's "Ticketing and Revenue Update" issue 138 (obtained through this FOI request) contains a list of 20 LU stations that MAY be considered for having barcode readers installed on some gates. Those being:

• Amersham
• Chalfont & Latimer
• Chorleywood
• Farringdon
• Finsbury Park
• Greenford
• Harrow & Wealdstone
• Harrow-on-the-Hill
• Highbury & Islington
• Kentish Town
• Moorgate
• Old Street
• Rickmansworth
• Seven Sisters
• South Ruislip
• Stratford
• Wembley Central
• West Brompton
• West Ham
• West Ruislip

If only 20 stations have e-ticket enabled gates, then won't we end up with a lot of people entering the system who can't get out at the other end of their journey?

 

[Metal_gee_man]

Quite a few people (Rightly) have complained South Eastern don't do E-Tickets

They do now, here is the tweet about it
SE_Railway twitter announcement

You can now buy eTickets for travel on Southeastern through our website or app. Most non-season tickets are available including Advance, singles & returns. We are upgrading our stations to accept eTickets and a small number of routes may not yet be available.

 

[plugwash]

On a related note, London Underground's "Ticketing and Revenue Update" issue 138 (obtained through this FOI request) contains a list of 20 LU stations that MAY be considered for having barcode readers installed on some gates. Those being:

• Amersham
• Chalfont & Latimer
• Chorleywood
• Farringdon
• Finsbury Park
• Greenford
• Harrow & Wealdstone
• Harrow-on-the-Hill
• Highbury & Islington
• Kentish Town
• Moorgate
• Old Street
• Rickmansworth
• Seven Sisters
• South Ruislip
• Stratford
• Wembley Central
• West Brompton
• West Ham
• West Ruislip

I'm not familiar with all of the stations on that list, but many of the ones I do recognise seem to be stations that have NR platforms behind LU barriers.

Notablly *not* on the list are the underground stations associated with the major rail terminals in central London.

 

[DelayRepay]

I'm not familiar with all of the stations on that list, but many of the ones I do recognise seem to be stations that have NR platforms behind LU barriers.

Notablly *not* on the list are the underground stations associated with the major rail terminals in central London.

So presumably the intention is to allow National Rail passengers through, rather than allowing use of E-tickets on the underground?

 

[plugwash]

That would be my guess.

 

[Parallel]

Quite a few people (Rightly) have complained South Eastern don't do E-Tickets

They do now, here is the tweet about it
SE_Railway twitter announcement

Hmm, Abbey Wood to Dartford isn’t available yet then, as I tried to purchase a ticket yesterday due to a queue at the machines/office - e-ticket fulfillment wasn’t available!

 

[Wallsendmag]

No, apart from the short list of stations mentioned up thread TfL are pushing for these tickets to be retailed via smart cards not bar codes.

You're obviously not in the same meetings I attend

 

[py_megapixel]

Quite a few people (Rightly) have complained South Eastern don't do E-Tickets

They do now, here is the tweet about it
SE_Railway twitter announcement

The tweet says e-tickets. Are they real e-tickets, or the much-inferior m-tickets?

 

[alistairlees]

The tweet says e-tickets. Are they real e-tickets, or the much-inferior m-tickets?

eTickets

 

[miklcct]

I have confirmed that LNER offers e-ticket for Advance fares with routing "✠ LNER & connections" with a connection on Thameslink if the itinerary doesn't involve the Underground.

 

[Wallsendmag]

I have confirmed that LNER offers e-ticket for Advance fares with routing "✠ LNER & connections" with a connection on Thameslink if the itinerary doesn't involve the Underground.

Only heading north out of STP.