Why aren't the platforms at UK railway stations renumbered?

[The exile]

Bristol Temple Meads was completely re-numbered in 1965, with numbers reversed (following the original train-shed [old 13-15] becoming a car-park). The old 1 & 2 became 15 & 13, but kept the original sign over the subway-entrance reading 'Subway to Platforms 3 to 12', leaving potential for worries about where (new) Platform 1 might be! There is no Platform 14 - while Platform 2 isn't signalled for passenger services, and is only used to store empty stock.

I’ve been using Temple Meads for 36 years now and, do you know, it had never occurred to me that platform 1 didn’t get a mention on that sign! Severn Beach line overlooked again!☹️

 

[Acfb]

Fewer trains, although the number has ramped up again, and the fact that it's an utterly silly platform which is highly inconvenient for staff and passengers alike, so if its use can be avoided, so much the better. Without it there are two island platforms which serve trains in each direction and it's easy to wait for the first train in your direction (in my case, to Wilmslow). They moved the Alderley Edge stopper to platform 0 so it became a complete pain, for anyone who doesn't know it's necessary to go down the subway, through barriers (if they're operating), across the concourse and up a set of stairs to get to platform 0 from platforms 1 & 2 and it can't be done quickly.

I find it really weird that the Buxton bound trains don't appear to use platform zero anymore to the best of my knowledge, using platform one instead but the Cheadle Hulme bound trains do. Surely a waste of paths or is that just to do with trains that call at Levenshulme and Heaton Chapel?

 

[jfollows]

I find it really weird that the Buxton bound trains don't appear to use platform zero anymore to the best of my knowledge, using platform one instead but the Cheadle Hulme bound trains do. Surely a waste of paths or is that just to do with trains that call at Levenshulme and Heaton Chapel?

The Alderley Edge stopper got moved back, thank goodness, and some of the Buxtons don't call at Levenshulme and Heaton Chapel, but they still used the up slow line today anyway. RTT shows a Hazel Grove service using platform zero today but that may have been an error.
I think it's just a case of "don't use it if you don't have to" because it's a complete pain for everyone.
And if you put the Norwich services back as they were before you find that the platform really isn't wide enough and get cluttered easily.
I agree that if you have to use the platform, then it makes more sense to use it for Hazel Grove and Buxton services, but it really has to be all or none of them, otherwise what's a passenger to do, guess and hope?

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Rather than have Platform 0, why not simply use the next available number, eg at Haymarket the bay would be Platform 5 instead of 0? Surely the railway does not think passengers are so stupid that they could only find their way to Platform 5 by referring to the location of Platform 4 first?!!

And platforms do get renumbered, at Oxford the Up and Down through platforms which, for decades if not centuries, had been 1 and 2, were changed to 3 and 4, so that the north end bays could be 1 and 2 - Why not simply make the bays 3 and 4, unless for the reason above?

Only have to look at Wolverhampton to see it already exists with platforms 5&6. Granted is does form some confusion with people the first time they go there but as long as it's well signposted it works

 

[Greybeard33]

The Alderley Edge stopper got moved back, thank goodness, and some of the Buxtons don't call at Levenshulme and Heaton Chapel, but they still used the up slow line today anyway. RTT shows a Hazel Grove service using platform zero today but that may have been an error.
I think it's just a case of "don't use it if you don't have to" because it's a complete pain for everyone.
And if you put the Norwich services back as they were before you find that the platform really isn't wide enough and get cluttered easily.
I agree that if you have to use the platform, then it makes more sense to use it for Hazel Grove and Buxton services, but it really has to be all or none of them, otherwise what's a passenger to do, guess and hope?

According to RTT, in the December 2022 timetable most Buxton, Hazel Grove and Norwich services are booked to use Stockport Platform 0. But the Cleethorpes services are booked to use P1.

 

[cf111]

Aberdeen likes to mix and match with platforms 6N(orth) and 6(S)outh being the designations of the long stretch of concrete which makes up platform 6. It means that they can have an Inverness bound train and a Perth bound train depart from the same length of track. I suppose you might wonder the reason behind the use of N and S if you're not local or just have a poor sense of direction but it seems to work!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Aberdeen likes to mix and match with platforms 6N(orth) and 6(S)outh being the designations of the long stretch of concrete which makes up platform 6. It means that they can have an Inverness bound train and a Perth bound train depart from the same length of track. I suppose you might wonder the reason behind the use of N and S if you're not local or just have a poor sense of direction but it seems to work!

Of course New St manages the same with A and B. N and S aren't magic

 

[cf111]

Of course New St manages the same with A and B. N and S aren't magic

Yes as long as the signage makes sense then any logic behind it doesn't make the slightest difference. I've yet to see anyone need a compass at Aberdeen to find their platform! Waverley is the only station that still confuses me and I've been using it for longer than I can remember, it must be a nightmare for anyone in a rush or just unfamiliar especially if they have a platform change.

 

[jfollows]

According to RTT, in the December 2022 timetable most Buxton, Hazel Grove and Norwich services are booked to use Stockport Platform 0. But the Cleethorpes services are booked to use P1.

Thank you, that's good to know, and more along the lines of - I think - the pre-May 2018 timetable. For me, anyway, it means I don't have to worry about zero for trains to Wilmslow.

 

[30907]

European railways do tend to refer to track numbers so that through roads will not have public "platform" numbers.

I suspect in these cases the platform structures will have been built on the site of previous tracks, similar to the additional southern island at Newcastle, with the remaining tracks retaining their original numbers. It's worth remembering that in central Europe, other than at major stations, actual platforms were considered a luxury and all that existed originally, and sometimes for an awful long time subsequently, were heavily tamped earth mounds adjacent to each track. Intending passengers would also remain in the main station building until their train arrived at which point they would go to the appropriate mound.

The other convention that may be in play here is "odd for up, even for down" (or.v.v!).

 

[181]

If I remember rightly, Woking had two renumberings not many years apart. For a long time, the four through platforms were numbered 2-5 (plus I think the down bay 6), platform 1 having been, I'm told, a long vanished bay on the up side. At some point (late 1980s?) they were renumbered 1-4 (plus 5), but it didn't seem very long afterwards that the new terminal platform 3 was opened at the London end of the central island, and the down platforms reverted to their previous numbers of 4 and 5 (+ 6).

It could be argued that the Czech system is the most logical of all but it's so different to normal practice just about everywhere else that it appears idiosyncratic.

Poland does the same; I don't know whether it happens anywhere else in that part of Europe.

 

[MK Tom]

Rather than have Platform 0, why not simply use the next available number, eg at Haymarket the bay would be Platform 5 instead of 0? Surely the railway does not think passengers are so stupid that they could only find their way to Platform 5 by referring to the location of Platform 4 first?!!

And platforms do get renumbered, at Oxford the Up and Down through platforms which, for decades if not centuries, had been 1 and 2, were changed to 3 and 4, so that the north end bays could be 1 and 2 - Why not simply make the bays 3 and 4, unless for the reason above?

And Oxford will probably change again now given how radically different the layout will be following the forthcoming rebuild.

An interesting case of questionable platform numbering exists at Milton Keynes Central, where the 2008 rebuild indented a new platform into platform 1, but they numbered it 2a, presumably so that terminating services always (normally) used a platform 2.

Stafford has no platform 2. I believe it used to be the south-facing bay.

Northampton's platforms, from west to east, are numbered 3-2-1-4-5.

 

[Bletchleyite]

An indent like that is normally numbered based on the platform you reach it from, which is 2, like New St 4C is reached from 4. It would be 1A were it on the other side.

 

[Wolfie]

There would appear to be at least some aversion to platforms being numbered out of sequence. No doubt there are a few exceptions to that, as there always is.

Stratford!

 

[swt_passenger]

And Oxford will probably change again now given how radically different the layout will be following the forthcoming rebuild.

Oxford numbering was changed specifically to make the new layout work. The new platform will be P5 as shown in the Network Rail future layout drawings. The only other likely future change is to make P2 a through platform rather than a bay. I don’t think adding a down platform loop is “radical“, is it?

 

[Wolfie]

There's no easy solution to any numbering, Newcastle Central goes north-south and so platform 9 is next to platform 2 and platform 8 is at the far side of the station.

Does New Street still have 4C as a separate bay to the rest of platform 4?

Re New Street it does indeed.

 

[SouthStand]

God not this again. Zero is just as valid a digit as one, got to love the imperial system loving folk

 

[CyrusWuff]

I’ve read somewhere that Stratford P4 & P7 were never used in normal service, they were designed for a Fenchurch St shuttle service that wasn’t ever started. Did they ever have track laid?

Platform 4 at Stratford was (eventually) brought into service as the original DLR platform, though was taken out of use again in June 2007 when the first of the current 4A and 4B was opened.

 

[swt_passenger]

Platform 4 at Stratford was (eventually) brought into service as the original DLR platform, though was taken out of use again in June 2007 when the first of the current 4A and 4B was opened.

That had already been mentioned earlier in this thread so I didn’t repeat it, but I was really only asking if it had ever been used by mainline rail.

 

[K.o.R]

Thanks both - that makes perfect sense.

Related question, then. Could a platform "-1" conceivably exist?

It'd end up being Platform 65,535.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Platform numbers are merely symbols. As long as they are clearly signposted, the platforms could be identified as pi, e, the square root of -1 and the Eye of Horus.

 

[mr_towers]

Rather than have Platform 0, why not simply use the next available number, eg at Haymarket the bay would be Platform 5 instead of 0? Surely the railway does not think passengers are so stupid that they could only find their way to Platform 5 by referring to the location of Platform 4 first?!!

Platform 5 is already in use at Haymarket - passengers going to it won’t find their trains (but will find a pint of some sort)

Platform 5
0131 347 1616

https://maps.app.goo.gl/qrev14oSn8sDJfwj6?g_st=ic

 

[zuriblue]

I'm a foreigner and didn't know there were 'platform 0(s)' in the UK.

Sub-optimal, strange, confusing and as someone who's travelled in many nations, I cannot recall any other rail network/nation doing this.

'Platform 0' may indicate to many people that the train isn't operating. '0' = 'zero'.

Aarau Station in Switzerland had a new bay platform added as part of a redevelopment and this was numbered Gleise (track) 0. It is adjacent to through platform 1.

 

[Mike99]

I've been wracking my ever-decreasing brain cells and there is a Platform 0 at Doncaster, I recall it's quite a walk from the platform to the rest of the station, but arguably the next platform is No 1 where many of the LNER London Kings Cross departures. are from.

 

[zwk500]

I've been wracking my ever-decreasing brain calls and there is a Platform 0 at Doncaster, I recall it's quite a walk from the platform to the rest of the station, but arguably the next platform is No 1 where many of the LNER London Kings Cross departures. are from.

Yes, like many platform 0s it's been squeezed into any available space. Doncaster is particularly bad for that, but also Stockport and Cardiff are quite some way from the other platforms.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Stratford!

Of course... but if I can recall what I meant when I made that post, I think I was meaning why 0 was used at Leeds when the next positive number available was 18. Having 18 before 1 would confuse most users in the UK, whereas in say Germany or Czechia it might not. It would also make signage more awkward because instead a sign with "Platforms 0-4 ->" you'd need "Platforms 1-4, 18 ->"

 

[tbtc]

I've been wracking my ever-decreasing brain cells and there is a Platform 0 at Doncaster, I recall it's quite a walk from the platform to the rest of the station, but arguably the next platform is No 1 where many of the LNER London Kings Cross departures. are from.

On our joined up public sector railway, we…

…cut the long established Sheffield -Doncaster - Scunthorpe service into a Sheffield - Doncaster one and a Doncaster - Scunthorpe one, to avoid running so many short DMUs over the flat ECML at Doncaster and free up more paths for longer distance services…

…spent lots of money on Platform 0 so that the Scunthorpe trains were pretty much operationally independent of other services at Doncaster…

…cut the hourly Doncaster - Scunthorpe service back to a replacement bus service every two or three hours (which AIUI still hasn’t returned to any rail provision, despite other routes returning towards normal as the rest of the country recovers from Covid)…

…at least Platform 0 gets used by the hourly Hull stopper (well, it was an hourly Hull stopper, it’s currently got gaps of a couple of hours and many services no longer run beyond Goole…), so it’s not totally wasted money but the investment in infrastructure at Doncaster, and subsequent cuts to the services that justified that investment by our enlightened public sector Operator Of Last Resort is a great example of government waste/ right hand not knowing what the left hand was doing/ Unlucky coincidences, depending on where you are on the political spectrum!

 

[Kite159]

On our joined up public sector railway, we…

…cut the long established Sheffield -Doncaster - Scunthorpe service into a Sheffield - Doncaster one and a Doncaster - Scunthorpe one, to avoid running so many short DMUs over the flat ECML at Doncaster and free up more paths for longer distance services…

…spent lots of money on Platform 0 so that the Scunthorpe trains were pretty much operationally independent of other services at Doncaster…

…cut the hourly Doncaster - Scunthorpe service back to a replacement bus service every two or three hours (which AIUI still hasn’t returned to any rail provision, despite other routes returning towards normal as the rest of the country recovers from Covid)…

…at least Platform 0 gets used by the hourly Hull stopper (well, it was an hourly Hull stopper, it’s currently got gaps of a couple of hours and many services no longer run beyond Goole…), so it’s not totally wasted money but the investment in infrastructure at Doncaster, and subsequent cuts to the services that justified that investment by our enlightened public sector Operator Of Last Resort is a great example of government waste/ right hand not knowing what the left hand was doing/ Unlucky coincidences, depending on where you are on the political spectrum!

There are probably many other examples of infrastructure investment for service patterns pre Covid which since timetable cuts sees little benefit. I.e. Loop at Alvechurch, useful when it was 3tph for Redditch, now it's cut to 2tph sees no trains passing there on a normal timetable.

 

[plugwash]

Merseyrail's platform at Liverpool Lime St hasn't got a number and is not integrated with the main station's platform numbering (or its signalling).
RTT refers to it as platform L (Low Level).

RTT refers to it as platform L for past trains but platfrom A for future trains. National rail live departures refers to it as plaform A for both past and future trains.

 

[Bletchleyite]

RTT refers to it as platform L for past trains but platfrom A for future trains. National rail live departures refers to it as plaform A for both past and future trains.

They sort of missed the opportunity to number it 1, then they'd not have had to renumber all the others!