Why can't i buy a Bentley to Glasshoughton ticket?

[Pit_buzzer]

I recently had a reason to visit glasshoughton, a northern station in west yorkshire. I'm travelling from Bentley, another northern station in South Yorkshire. Neither the Northern app nor the ticket machine at the station will sell me a ticket for the journey, does anyone know why?
I thought you could buy a ticket from any station to any other station.

 

[Kilopylae]

I thought you could buy a ticket from any station to any other station.

If only it were that simple. There are certainly some journeys for which no tickets exist.

However, I'm not sure this is one of them. The Northern website is happy to sell me an Off-peak Day Single for £9.50.

 

[yorkie]

I recently had a reason to visit glasshoughton, a northern station in west yorkshire. I'm travelling from Bentley, another northern station in South Yorkshire. Neither the Northern app nor the ticket machine at the station will sell me a ticket for the journey, does anyone know why?
I thought you could buy a ticket from any station to any other station.

Probably because the fastest routes are not permitted; some journey planners can struggle to offer slower routes.

Trainscanbecheaper.info will sell a through fare without any issues.

Or, if you want a combination of tickets, use Trainsplit (it's expensive for the absolute fastest route, but using a combination of two tickets on the cheapest route saves about £1.50 against a through fare)

 

[Pit_buzzer]

Interesting that the website offers a fare but the app doesn't. I've got the app to give me a fare from South Elmsall using a train which serves bentley earlier in the journey but it involves a walk from Wakefield Westgate to kirkgate. The fare is cheaper than the fare to leeds which would have been the obvious route to me but would then give a cheaper way of getting to leeds.
Its an Interesting anomaly

 

[yorkie]

Northern could fix this by introducing a ticket routed "Not via Leeds" priced at around £8, and increasing the price of the existing ticket to around £10, and making Leeds a permitted route


However in all probability Northern will choose not to do this

 

[Pit_buzzer]

I've just tried to buy it on the Northern website and its still not offering a fare. Maybe I'm doing something wrong but i think many would have given up at this stage. If it was deadly urgent I'd work round it with split tickets but anyone with a car in the garage would probably use that instead sadly

 

[David Goddard]

Strange one as it works from Adwick and works from Doncaster (stations either side) using the same trains, just not from Bentley

 

[janb]

I've just tried to buy it on the Northern website and its still not offering a fare. Maybe I'm doing something wrong but i think many would have given up at this stage. If it was deadly urgent I'd work round it with split tickets but anyone with a car in the garage would probably use that instead sadly

Need to use Avoid Leeds in order to give a fare.

 

[Pit_buzzer]

Yep, I've finally got it. I'd never have thought to specifically avoid leeds. Thanks for that

 

[mikeg]

So assuming Bentley has no ticket office, what would the passenger be expected to do? Would it count as having no opportunity to purchase if travelling to glasshoughton?

 

[Pit_buzzer]

I now have a plan, i can buy an off peak day return from Doncaster to Glasshoughton on an itinerary with one change in leeds. Its not a train specific ticket, allows break of journey and Bentley is on the route. So i get my trip to Glasshoughton and spend some time in Leeds .
They certainly don't make things easy, a person stood at the ticket machine on Bentley station trying to make the trip would certainly not know how to proceed

 

[andythebrave]

I now have a plan, i can buy an off peak day return from Doncaster to Glasshoughton on an itinerary with one change in leeds. Its not a train specific ticket, allows break of journey and Bentley is on the route. So i get my trip to Glasshoughton and spend some time in Leeds .
They certainly don't make things easy, a person stood at the ticket machine on Bentley station trying to make the trip would certainly not know how to proceed

Also, depending on times an off peak day return to South Elmsall at £3.30 and a West Yorkshire Daysaver Train at £8.10 would give an awful lot of options.

 

[SickyNicky]

Northern could fix this by introducing a ticket routed "Not via Leeds" priced at around £8, and increasing the price of the existing ticket to around £10, and making Leeds a permitted route

Or add a "VIA LEEDS" ticket which wouldn't need any changes to the routeing guide.

 

[Pit_buzzer]

Also, depending on times an off peak day return to South Elmsall at £3.30 and a West Yorkshire Daysaver Train at £8.10 would give an awful lot of options.

Thanks for that, I'd forgotten about the day rover, I've not used one since they brought in the afternoon peak restrictions

 

[kieron]

Or add a "VIA LEEDS" ticket which wouldn't need any changes to the routeing guide.

They'd still need to change the routeing guide to make it work, I think. At the moment, the fastest Bentley-Glasshoughton journey is via both Leeds and Doncaster. Bentley-Glasshoughton is a local journey, so you'd need easements to make anything like that valid with a through ticket.

It would be better for Northern's supplier to fix its ticket machines so they search for more tickets. nre.co.uk* finds valid journeys without any special options, so it is possible.

I now have a plan, i can buy an off peak day return from Doncaster to Glasshoughton on an itinerary with one change in leeds. Its not a train specific ticket, allows break of journey and Bentley is on the route. So i get my trip to Glasshoughton and spend some time in Leeds .

One disadvantage of this is that Doncaster-Glasshoughton tickets start at £14.50 (without railcard) for a return. If you would be happy to walk across Wakefield city centre in one direction, a Bentley-Leeds off peak day return costs £9.70, and you can go via Glasshoughton with it (itinerary here*).

* You may need to delete any nationalrail.co.uk cookies you have for these links to open correctly.

 

[onlinespotting]

So assuming Bentley has no ticket office, what would the passenger be expected to do? Would it count as having no opportunity to purchase if travelling to glasshoughton?

Permit to travel and the guard would have to sort you out or you go to the ticket office at Westgate (would you have to change at Westgate AND Kirkgate on a not via Leeds?)

 

[Pit_buzzer]

They'd still need to change the routeing guide to make it work, I think. At the moment, the fastest Bentley-Glasshoughton journey is via both Leeds and Doncaster. Bentley-Glasshoughton is a local journey, so you'd need easements to make anything like that valid with a through ticket.

It would be better for Northern's supplier to fix its ticket machines so they search for more tickets. nre.co.uk* finds valid journeys without any special options, so it is possible.


One disadvantage of this is that Doncaster-Glasshoughton tickets start at £14.50 (without railcard) for a return. If you would be happy to walk across Wakefield city centre in one direction, a Bentley-Leeds off peak day return costs £9.70, and you can go via Glasshoughton with it (itinerary here*).

* You may need to delete any nationalrail.co.uk cookies you have for these links to open correctly.

When i originally planned the trip i was expecting via leeds to pop up as the main choice which suited me fine for a 2 centre trip. I've got a railcard so the £9.55 for the Doncaster to Glasshoughton ticket is perfectly acceptable

 

[Mcr Warrior]

BR Fares only seems to show "via Wakefield" through tickets. Nothing else.

Look up fares for any train journey in Britain

Full details of all British rail Single, Return & Season tickets and Travelcards. Built-in Season Ticket Calculator.

www.brfares.com

 

[NORMAN471]

Interesting that the website offers a fare but the app doesn't. I've got the app to give me a fare from South Elmsall using a train which serves bentley earlier in the journey but it involves a walk from Wakefield Westgate to kirkgate. The fare is cheaper than the fare to leeds which would have been the obvious route to me but would then give a cheaper way of getting to leeds.
Its an Interesting anomaly

Does the Wakefield Free City Bus still run between Westgate and Kirkgate at the moment?

https://www.wymetro.com/media/4713/wakefield-free-city-bus-leaflet_web-012.pdf

 

[Pit_buzzer]

BR Fares only seems to show "via Wakefield" through tickets. Nothing else.

The via wakefield option with a walk from westgate to kirkgate is a bit impractical for people of lesser mobility. There is a train once an hour but the connections are pretty poor. The one change at leeds makes so much sense it just seems strange that its not the default route.

As an aside, whilst researching this issue I've found some surprising routes being offered such as bentley to york with changes at Fitzwilliam and moorthorpe and even doncaster to sheffield via Fitzwilliam. I really need to get to grips with the routing guide

I'd not thought about a Wakefield city centre bus, that make the journey easier

 

[yorkie]

They'd still need to change the routeing guide to make it work, I think. At the moment, the fastest Bentley-Glasshoughton journey is via both Leeds and Doncaster. Bentley-Glasshoughton is a local journey, so you'd need easements to make anything like that valid with a through ticket.

ok what I'd do:

- Not via Leeds (current fare but reduced to match the cheapest split)
- Via Leeds (for about £10 CDR)
- Via Don/Leeds (for about the cost of the overinflated Don-Leeds fare)

Ideally you'd code it so the costlier fares are still deemed valid by electronic systems via the cheaper routes.

I really need to get to grips with the routing guide

see https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/fares-workshops.208770/

 

[skifans]

Does the Wakefield Free City Bus still run between Westgate and Kirkgate at the moment?

https://www.wymetro.com/media/4713/wakefield-free-city-bus-leaflet_web-012.pdf

It was running around 1 month again when I last needed it