Why different changing stations on different websites?

[Leisurefirst]

Hi there,
Just curious...
For a journey on a Friday 17.40 from North Queensferry to Euston, the LNER website gives changes at Haymarket & Carlisle.
For the same journey, the Avanti website gives the changes at Haymarket & Lancaster.
It seems strange that the own website of a train operator prefers you to spend less time on their train.
Why the difference?
(Is there any way to force the Avanti site to give a Carlisle change BTW? I want the Club Avanti loyalty but might try for a Seatfrog upgrade and would like the extra time on their train.)
Thanks.

 

[Watershed]

You're changing between the same trains so there is usually no difference to your journey in where you change - albeit sometimes varying the change point can affect the fare on an Advance, for example if there is availability for a cheaper tier for a particular section on one train but not the other.

Both Lancaster and Carlisle are "large" stations in the industry data, so have equal priority for interchanges. Effectively it's thus down to how the particular algorithm used by the journey planner works, and how the filtering of journeys is applied.

The same booking systems are used by multiple TOCs, so it would make little sense for them to automatically favour one TOC over another.

You may well find that a combination of tickets is cheaper than a through fare. Unfortunately I'm not aware of any way of forcing change points in the Avanti site.

 

[yorkie]

Hi there,
Just curious...
For a journey on a Friday 17.40 from North Queensferry to Euston, the LNER website gives changes at Haymarket & Carlisle.
For the same journey, the Avanti website gives the changes at Haymarket & Lancaster.

It depends on the journey planner; the forum's site will consider price and if the price is cheaper to change at any given location we'll offer that.

It seems strange that the own website of a train operator prefers you to spend less time on their train.

It's not done on that basis.

Why the difference?
(Is there any way to force the Avanti site to give a Carlisle change BTW?

No; Avanti don't offer that. The forum's site does if you go to "advanced options"

I want the Club Avanti loyalty but might try for a Seatfrog upgrade and would like the extra time on their train.)
Thanks.

Avanti want your loyalty because you'll be paying a premium; for this Friday it's £88.90 on Avanti vs £71.31 on the forum's site:



Also, as an added bonus, our site is having you change at Carlisle rather than Lancaster.

Whether it's worth an extra £17.60 for the loyalty perks, and less time on Avanti, only you can decide!

 

[voyagerdude220]

It drives me mad when I'm using Journey Planner on my ticket office computer, because when I'm planning a journey from say somewhere in North West to somewhere North of Edinburgh, it often suggests changing at Edinburgh (Waverley) Station instead of Haymarket. This is despite the fact 99% of the time both trains involved call at Haymarket. Also Haymarket is much easier to change at compared to Waverley and the customer would have a few more minutes changing trains without delaying their arrival at their destination Station.

 

[yorkie]

It drives me mad when I'm using Journey Planner on my ticket office computer, because when I'm planning a journey from say somewhere in North West to somewhere North of Edinburgh, it often suggests changing at Edinburgh (Waverley) Station instead of Haymarket. This is despite the fact 99% of the time both trains involved call at Haymarket. Also Haymarket is much easier to change at compared to Waverley and the customer would have a few more minutes changing trains without delaying their arrival at their destination Station.

Is there an option to force a change at Haymarket?

It surprises me how poor the journey planners used by TOCs are in some cases.

 

[Huntergreed]

I’ve often found that with journeys like this, you can use the “change” function on TrainSplit to force the itinerary to make the change at the station you want for no additional cost (I’ve had ones that have said change at Lancaster/Preston that I’ve managed to move to Carlisle for the same price).

Another extremely useful function is allowing additional interchange time (which can be different for each station) if you need to do something at an intermediate stop. As an example, I’ve made itineraries where I’ve departed my origin, got off and had a meal at an intermediate stop, and then continued, all on the same ticket!

I can’t think of any other booking engine that allows you to ‘customise’ your journey as much as TrainSplit, and would always recommend it if you’re wanting to change somewhere not included in the itinerary.

 

[janb]

Is there an option to force a change at Haymarket?

It surprises me how poor the journey planners used by TOCs are in some cases.

It's not always 100% foolproof for every example (for journeys from West to Bradford Forster Square for example you have to use "Stop at" Cononley to force a Skipton change rather than Shipley) but entering Haymarket as "Via" station seems to work for this case. Also can enter Haymarket in "Stop at" which seems to work.

It's not perfect but Fujitsu Journey Planner is generally very good, and much quicker for a power user than a typical website.

 

[yorkie]

It's not always 100% foolproof for every example (for journeys from West to Bradford Forster Square for example you have to use "Stop at" Cononley to force a Skipton change rather than Shipley) but entering Haymarket as "Via" station seems to work for this case. Also can enter Haymarket in "Stop at" which seems to work.

Changing to via Haymarket shouldn't make a difference, as either way you go via Haymarket, but maybe doing so changes the weighting associated with the via point being a potential change at point or something. Must be a quirk of that planner.

If the Fujitsu planner is used by Avanti, then the OP could obtain the ticket at a ticket office to get the perks and the desired change point, assuming it's worth an extra £17, and that's if Avanti allow tickets bought at ticket offices to qualify for the scheme (or is it online only)?

It's not perfect but Fujitsu Journey Planner is generally very good, and much quicker for a power user than a typical website.

How do the advanced options of that planner compare to those on www.fastjp.com (which is the journey planner used by the forum's ticketing site)?

 

[janb]

How do the advanced options of that planner compare to those on www.fastjp.com (which is the journey planner used by the forum's ticketing site)?

They are basically very similar, couple of points of difference are that fastjp does have that specific "change at" option which Journey Planner doesn't, and in terms of operators Journey Planner only has preferred and exclude, so to achieve "only use operator X" sometimes you need to exclude operators a, b, c that operate over same routes.

I do use fastjp.com when I am journey planning at home.

 

[voyagerdude220]

Is there an option to force a change at Haymarket?

It surprises me how poor the journey planners used by TOCs are in some cases.

I usually tell it to exclude Edinburgh (Waverley) which almost always results in my preferred option of changing at Haymarket being offered.

 

[Leisurefirst]

I’ve often found that with journeys like this, you can use the “change” function on TrainSplit to force the itinerary to make the change at the station you want for no additional cost (I’ve had ones that have said change at Lancaster/Preston that I’ve managed to move to Carlisle for the same price).

Another extremely useful function is allowing additional interchange time (which can be different for each station) if you need to do something at an intermediate stop. As an example, I’ve made itineraries where I’ve departed my origin, got off and had a meal at an intermediate stop, and then continued, all on the same ticket!

I can’t think of any other booking engine that allows you to ‘customise’ your journey as much as TrainSplit, and would always recommend it if you’re wanting to change somewhere not included in the itinerary.

Thanks for this (and to all other replies)