Why do some people get frustrated when their ticket doesn't get checked when travelling by train?

[Bluejays]

It isn't tickets being checked that frustrates me, it is that almost every time I have witnessed people not having a ticket or not having the correct ticket, there have been no consequences.

Invariably the people concerned look "tougher" or "prettier" than the ticket inspector and they get let off. " I left it at home" " I didn't get one" " I didn't realise it was a peak train" . Nine out of ten times there are no consequences. If you are a tough looking bloke or a pretty looking woman ( in the case of male inspectors) the ticket inspector invariably walks away usually resulting in much laughter from the person or people "let off" after they have left the carriage.

Maybe the ticket inspectors on here will claim they take action more often than not, but I have only occasionally seen anyone actually charged a fare when found to not have a ticket ( other than legitimately e.g. no facility to buy one ), never seen any penalty fares given and more often than not see inspectors walk away. ( I mainly use south eastern, southern and south western)

Well, Judging from that message, us guards and ticket inspectors must all be ugly and not very tough!
Because you mention that people who are prettier or tougher than the ticket inspector get away with not having a ticket. But also that 'almost every time someone doesn't have a ticket they get away with it' .

I'd better get myself down the gym I think!

 

[Signal_Box]

Show your actual physical ticket with your Railcard also displayed in your wallet at the same time. No 'faff' whatsoever.

Pet hate of mine when I was a guard having to ask to see the railcard when they know full well the ticket requires on.

Then the “oh I didn’t think I needed it with me”….yes I’m afraid you do as I tap up the new fare on the advantix.

 

[Snow1964]

Everyone (?) seems to overlook the fact there was/will be a gateline check - so any ‘annoyance’ must be perverse. I’d never equate no on-board check annoyance equating to saving money

I thought only a few hundred stations have gatelines, and some of these are only part time with gates open. Something like 2000 stations have no gatelines (sorry don't know quantity)

I have done 200+ mile journeys (3+ hours) with no check at either end or on the train, and afterwards feel like why did I bother buying a ticket.

 

[dk1]

Pet hate of mine when I was a guard having to ask to see the railcard when they know full well the ticket requires on.

Then the “oh I didn’t think I needed it with me”….yes I’m afraid you do as I tap up the new fare on the advantix.

Here in Greater Anglia land that is a constant from our conductors “can I see your railcard please”. We don’t take any prisoners.

 

[scragend]

My "frustration", if that is indeed the word, at not having my ticket checked is not that I could have got away with it, but that others are getting away with it. I always pay my fare and have no issue with doing so. It's just that I know that there will be others who are dodging theirs and I just wish they'd get pulled up for it.

It brings to mind the time that I took a Northern train to Wigan, Virgin to Crewe, LNWR to Euston, and then Greater Anglia from Stratford to Harwich to get the ferry. Four trains from four different operators and I was never asked to show a ticket at any stage, either on the train or at a station. The only exception was that I had to tap my card to get from Euston to Liverpool Street (and then to Stratford because trains weren't running from Liverpool St). Admittedly I probably would have had to show my ticket at the barriers at Liverpool St had I been able to catch a train from there as intended.

It can be tempting in those circumstances to think "why did I bother paying for a ticket" but, being an honest man, instead my thoughts were "someone less honest could have done (most of) that journey for nothing".

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I can't understand it. It's always a faff if ticket's are checked on the trains: take out phone, open app on phone, find ticket. "Railcard, please". Close ticket app. Find app with railcard. Open railcard app, etc.

I'm sure said individuals don't show the same level of frustration when, upon leaving a supermarket, they're not asked to produce their receipt. Make it make sense!

I have not travelled by train since the death of my wife in 2021 (I am 79) as I have given up rail travel to places we both visited on our 3-year Senior Citizens Railcards regularly to places such as Durham, York, Shrewsbury, Ludlow and Hereford. Unlike the person above, we both had a small leather folder with 2 clear pockets, the top one with the rail ticket and the bottom one with the 3-year Senior Citizen Railcard.

Every time the ticket inspection occurred, we just opened our ticket folders and showed them to the person checking tickets and not once was any queried raised.

 

[James H]

It cuts both ways - I understand the frustration when there are no checks, but the wrong sort of checks can also be incredibly customer unfriendly.

Try getting through a small gateline like Bournemouth with lots of luggage when a train has just arrived and the barriers have been set to reject all railcard discounted tickets. It makes for a VERY poor passenger experience for everyone

 

[Trainman40083]

Many years as a guard has told me to never assume, in reference to those on about "chancers". As a human being I am as guilty as anyone for sometimes clapping eyes on someone and thinking "oh dear, here we go" - only for them to be perfectly pleasant and friendly, as well as fully kitted out with perfectly good travel documents.

My favourite example was a group of young lads in hoodies making a noise on the platform and then piling into the train. Down I went expecting trouble to find them all sitting down, minding their own business, clutching valid tickets they'd bought from the TVM and indeed then proceeding to offer me a slice of the pizza they'd brought with them.

It obviously varies to a degree depending on the setting but most people are at least what I'd call "alright".

Some.years ago, when I was still commuting, there were two youths sat on the other side of the train. Lady guard came down checking tickets, and I knew her well some had a chat.. I said to her "just check their tickets again". She expressed surprise..Two tickets were displayed for two people, by one person. But one of the two didn't have a valid ticket. An outward and return had been shown, not two tickets for the same direction

 

[Farigiraf]

Made it the other day from the Isle of Wight all the way to Cambridge with the only ticket checks being at the Wightlink terminal and Victoria tube gatelines (where the person manning the gate only took a quick glance at the Yarmouth-Winchester portion of the split ticket before letting me through). Even the barriers at Cambridge were open.
I agree that it does feel unfair at times, but a quick look at the Disputes & Prosecutions forum shows that it's still (not just morally) much more easy and affordable to simply not fare dodge.

 

[dk1]

Made it the other day from the Isle of Wight all the way to Cambridge with the only ticket checks being at the Wightlink terminal and Victoria tube gatelines (where the person manning the gate only took a quick glance at the Yarmouth-Winchester portion of the split ticket before letting me through). Even the barriers at Cambridge were open.
I agree that it does feel unfair at times, but a quick look at the Disputes & Prosecutions forum shows that it's still (not just morally) much more easy and affordable to simply not fare dodge.

Quite rare for Cambridge ticket barriers to be open these days. Often both GA and GN revenue teams are also eyeing up passengers on both sides looking for any trying their luck.

 

[Jimini]

A variation on this theme from me: no ticket checks in 1st class, when you hear people walk in the carriage saying to each other "oh, this is first, shall we just grab a seat and see if anyone comes".

Yeah I know it's a proper first world problem But anecdotally you do tend to find that the chancers are more likely to be the type to play nonsense on loudspeaker on their phones etc.

 

[Signal_Box]

Here in Greater Anglia land that is a constant from our conductors “can I see your railcard please”. We don’t take any prisoners.

Good ! They know the conditions of a railcard, just like we know if we forget our ID we will probably end up with a new ticket on a Priv fare.

It cuts both ways - I understand the frustration when there are no checks, but the wrong sort of checks can also be incredibly customer unfriendly.

Try getting through a small gateline like Bournemouth with lots of luggage when a train has just arrived and the barriers have been set to reject all railcard discounted tickets. It makes for a VERY poor passenger experience for everyone

Blame the minority who abuse railcars discounts, you can’t blame the railway for wanting to maximise revenue, and taking steps to protect that revenue.

 

[dk1]

Good ! They know the conditions of a railcard, just like we know if we forget our ID we will probably end up with a new ticket on a Priv fare.

Absolutely, and whenever I buy a priv ticket I always have my ID card in hand and show whenever it’s inspected. I do not understand the problem anybody has with this simple requirement.

 

[YorksLad12]

It isn't tickets being checked that frustrates me, it is that almost every time I have witnessed people not having a ticket or not having the correct ticket, there have been no consequences.

Invariably the people concerned look "tougher" or "prettier" than the ticket inspector and they get let off. " I left it at home" " I didn't get one" " I didn't realise it was a peak train" . Nine out of ten times there are no consequences. If you are a tough looking bloke or a pretty looking woman ( in the case of male inspectors) the ticket inspector invariably walks away usually resulting in much laughter from the person or people "let off" after they have left the carriage.

Maybe the ticket inspectors on here will claim they take action more often than not, but I have only occasionally seen anyone actually charged a fare when found to not have a ticket ( other than legitimately e.g. no facility to buy one ), never seen any penalty fares given and more often than not see inspectors walk away. ( I mainly use south eastern, southern and south western)

I have seen the "You need to buy a valid ticket" conversation a few times in the morning rush hour. Often with a very expensive outcome.

I commute to Sheffield from Leeds, with a flexi-season on a Northern smartcard. Less chance of dropping the phone when going through the gate that way! My experiences vary:

• The conductor-guard doesn't have the right app or phone, reckons I have an honest face (I do) and moves on.
• They have the right app or phone, but after trying the card a couple of times it doesn't work, so they move on (with a thank you, but I can see it's not been read).
• The card reads fine, and I'm reminded by them that the ticket expires that day (it's a flexi-season, it expires every day).
• The card reads fine and I'm told my ticket has expired (because they're reading an old, expired ticket still on the card).

In all cases, I use the XC or Northern app to scan the card myself as a back-up. None of this is the fault of the conductor-guard; there's a lot of ticket types to keep track of, flexi-seasons on smartcards must be rare. We do sometimes have a conversation but I'm dressed for work (jacket, tie) so I must look respectable and I always treat staff so. If only they knew the forums I inhabit...

That said, a ticket check is more likely heading south in the Morning (usually after Wakefield) than heading north in the evening.

 

[En]

No. They've paid for a service and received that service. Fare dodging is a separate issue. To suggest otherwise is nonsense.

it's the seemingly casual attitude that is taken by some staff / management that is the reason people get frustrated , this is also related to the whole 'save the guard' thing as well

 

[roadie]

I have not travelled by train since the death of my wife in 2021 (I am 79) as I have given up rail travel to places we both visited on our 3-year Senior Citizens Railcards regularly to places such as Durham, York, Shrewsbury, Ludlow and Hereford. Unlike the person above, we both had a small leather folder with 2 clear pockets, the top one with the rail ticket and the bottom one with the 3-year Senior Citizen Railcard.

Every time the ticket inspection occurred, we just opened our ticket folders and showed them to the person checking tickets and not once was any queried raised.

There's a large chain of supermarkets beginning with S that requires receipts to be scanned to exit on self serve . Not great when you've got handfuls of shopping.

 

[The exile]

If someone walked out of the supermarket without paying for their shopping because there was no one at the door checking, would you feel hard done by because you paid for your shopping? People that fare evade or steal eventually get caught because it's never a one off, be happy that you don't have to deal with those consequences.

No - but if it was obvious to all and sundry that it was happening and there was no evidence that staff or management were doing anything about it, I would be extremely frustrated that people were blatantly getting away with it.

 

[PaulJ]

Just for fun… This happened this afternoon about 30 seconds before this passenger alighted, so I had little opportunity to take any action.
I notice a young lad about 20 with ticket endorsed ‘Gold card discount’
Me - ‘can I see your Gold card please?’
Him - ‘it’s at home’
Me - ‘oh ok. Show me your annual season ticket’
Him - ‘I don’t have one’
Me - ‘And your Gold card is where?’
Him- ‘At home’
Me - ‘Aha! I think not, my friend!’
At that point the doors opened and he wandered off… A shame I didn’t have more time really.

 

[duffield]

That wasn't the issue. You said the fare paying passenger has lost out. They haven't.

Actually it's arguable that both honest passengers and taxpayers do lose out by fare dodging. In theory at least, both fares and taxpayer subsidies could be lower if every fare dodger paid. So while it's true the honest passenger shouldn't resent having paid something to travel, it's perfectly reasonable for them to resent paying extra to effectively subsidise the fare dodger. They should really be put out that the fare dodger's ticket wasn't checked, but their ticket not being checked is a proxy for that.

 

[jammmmmsssssss]

Quite rare for Cambridge ticket barriers to be open these days. Often both GA and GN revenue teams are also eyeing up passengers on both sides looking for any trying their luck.

Out of all my times going to Cambridge, I've only seen them open twice. One at 1630 on a Monday which was quite weird and once at 0830 on a Sunday which I kinda expected. There was no one hanging around the gateline then which was unusual

 

[317 forever]

My frustration is being woken on the train by the guard, fetching out my wallet, getting the ticket out and being told "thanks, that's fine" before the ticket is even halfway exposed.

It's great that I have such a trustworthy face and all that, but if you're going to wake me up to check my ticket, check it - otherwise, let me catch up on that sleep debt

An example that particularly annoyed was with Virgin (yes Virgin, not Avanti) in 2017. I had caught an overnight coach from Manchester to London and travelled back on Virgin in 1st class in the hope of having a snooze. The first stop was Crewe but the conductor still woke me up before Milton Keynes to try to see my ticket! I think it had already been inspected at Euston anyway. I admit I couldn't immediately find it, he walked away but never came back!

Sure, I understand them needing to make sure I had paid the 1st class fare. However, given that the train would not even stop before Crewe, he could surely have noted my seat and come back later instead?

Often, where a ticket is scanned and found to be invalid, whilst it may appear that the guard is taking no action (i.e they don't force the passenger to purchase a new ticket on the spot - they're, probably sensibly, avoiding conflict) they can actually highlight the ticket for investigation by internal teams. This often leads to prosecution (or out of court settlement) when such investigation reveals that said passenger is regularly using off-peak tickets to travel on peak trains, for example.

This, from a rail industry point of view, is the beauty of e-tickets and bog roll tickets. The bar code proves which ticket it is and what use is made of it, and record is kept if deemed necessary by the rail companies.

 

[Krokodil]

We are constantly reminded on other threads that the hypothetical RailUK Forums Reference Passenger doesn’t possess a mobile phone or other means of checking things.

Even if they do have a smartphone, they may not know how to get the best use out of it. Particularly if they're infrequent travellers.

I never suggested that at all. I'm saying that if the reason those who are annoyed that their tickets aren't checked is because they could have got away without paying then that is a rather morally bankrupt viewpoint. You pay because you are making a train journey, not because you expect to get your ticket checked.

In my experience it's more "I've paid for my ticket, and that scruffy bloke over there is probably getting away with it..."

If someone walked out of the supermarket without paying for their shopping because there was no one at the door checking, would you feel hard done by because you paid for your shopping?

Shoplifting puts up prices for us all.

Ticket checking and selling should be separated from the other duties of a guard and should be done bt a sepoerate person, Their salary would be met by the increased revenue from tickets

It really wouldn’t. Some trains justify an additional ticket examiner, but on most the guard can handle it. Barriers at major stations keep the number of problem passengers limited which allows the guard to deal with the remainder.

 

[jacksonbang]

Never annoyed/frustrated but the checking of a ticket is just seen as a feeling that there is someone on the train that is watching over the journey. It's annoying there are three or four staff at Hastings station checking tickets "after the event" but, maybe, a 25% chance of your ticket checked on the whole 100 minute journey from London.

 

[Trainfan2019]

The thing that puzzles and slightly frustrates me about ticket checking is this... I have smartcard season tickets used with physical photo id, why do some onboard staff scan the card and others don't?

I have more times per week where my smartcard isn't scanned than when it is. I don't travel on busy packed trains either.

 

[66701GBRF]

Shoplifting puts up prices for us all.

Different argument as far as I am concerned.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Looking at the title thread, I should imagine the percentage of such frustrated travellers is very small indeed.

 

[PedroHav]

As Snow1964 says there are thousands of unnamed and barrierless stations throughout the country. Along the south coast there are hundreds. In my experience both South West and Southern seldom do ticket checks let alone check Railcards (mine's been checked about 10 times in 10 years and I use the trains a lot). So those who get on and off a unstaffed stations stand very little chance of getting caught and they know it.
More inspectors would pay for themselves and send a message that not having a ticket is unacceptable.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

As Snow1964 says there are thousands of unnamed and barrierless stations throughout the country. Along the south coast there are hundreds. In my experience both South West and Southern seldom do ticket checks let alone check Railcards (mine's been checked about 10 times in 10 years and I use the trains a lot). So those who get on and off a unstaffed stations stand very little chance of getting caught and they know it.
More inspectors would pay for themselves and send a message that not having a ticket is unacceptable.

Not that I disagree with what you say, but this thread deals with people who are said to be frustrated if their ticket is not checked when travelling by train. Is there a separate thread that deals with the subject of barrierless railway stations?

 

[PaulJ]

As Snow1964 says there are thousands of unnamed and barrierless stations throughout the country. Along the south coast there are hundreds. In my experience both South West and Southern seldom do ticket checks let alone check Railcards (mine's been checked about 10 times in 10 years and I use the trains a lot). So those who get on and off a unstaffed stations stand very little chance of getting caught and they know it.
More inspectors would pay for themselves and send a message that not having a ticket is unacceptable.

But would they pay for themselves? How many would be needed? At what cost? (£30k salary, £180 per day) to recoup how much money?
Of course, it’s natural to feel aggrieved when you pay your fare because you’re a civil upstanding citizen, and others are getting away with it; but unfortunately that’s the same with anything else in life - people will make an economic choice. I once read a book about economics which told of a chap in the US that always parked close to a theatre in a no parking zone, it just made it easier for him to get the the theatre. Every now and again he’d get fined or towed away, but it made economic sense to him.

 

[jamiearmley]

As a commuter for 18 years, it took me a while to notice the scale of fare evasion. It gradually dawned on me over time that on the days the guard appeared, they were constantly selling tickets. The guard only appeared about 50% of the time.

(This was pre mobile ticketing).

It followed, then, that on the days the guard didn't appear, that revenue went uncollected.

As a season ticket holder, over time this began to make me wonder if I could save money by only buying daily tickets when challenged. However, having had a certain moral compass instilled in me while growing up, I felt I could not do this, so I continued to buy my season ticket.

Over time, I became angry that so many people seemed to be getting away with it. It felt like I was the one being taken advantage of. I became familiar with the crews that worked the line, and categorised them into either hard working, or disinterested, based on wether or not they would appear in the carriage at any point. ( A very rough categorisation, I know - and don't start on about other more important duties than revenue... Keep reading...).

After 18 years of commuting by rail, I got a job as a guard. I began to understand that the role is far more complex than an observer would realise, and felt slightly ashamed that I had harboured frustration about wether or not my ticket had been checked.

Time rolled on, and I realise now several things :

1. Passengers generally do get annoyed if they feel that others aren't paying. They don't like that their Railcards are never checked, they don't like seeing people 'let off', and they do like to see the guard in the carriages doing what they perceive to be their only job when the train is moving - checking tickets.

2. The guards whom I never ever saw in the carriage checking tickets when I was commuting all those years generally did have other things to do. (Some, of course, were - and still are - disengaged and uninterested).

3. The amount of conflict that you encounter in the job does push many crew into the back cab where they stay.

4. I get far more passengers thanking me for doing my job (as they perceive it) than I do grumbles about them having to show their ticket.

It's one person's changing experiences, I know - but I hope it helps answer the question.