Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Who then do you think will automatically spring to mind for the required finance to allow that reopening, should that aspirational stage have moved on to a position where reopening is a very real possibility?
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Why does Okehampton - Bere Alston get all the attention, when the case is stronger for reopening to Bideford?
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Doesn't have to be an either-or - not driving to Barnstaple every day to go to work reduces traffic then, and if someone's at home they can use the car to go locally. Bus improvements would do the same, obviously.
They built a bridge ( more of a short tunnel ) over the trackbed just in case the line was ever put back, unless it's been rebuilt again.
There's a crossing in Instow right by the signalbox ( still has rails! ) which I don't think you could replace - I guess you *could* just break the street there, other than that a lot less than I remembered. I guess you could tram-train the entire line if you wanted to go either way out of Barnstaple, although that'd need a pretty luxurious tram given you're looking at 75-80 mins or so to Exeter probably!
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I would like to see the reversing Beeching policy beefed up so that it can reopen lines currently without track. It would then be up to the locals to propose it
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Nonetheless, in cases where the railway lines have been lifted very many years ago, the actual ground conditions would need fully examining, as there could be matters such as old culverts, etc, that may have reached a bad stage, never having been part of the area railway maintenance regimes prevailing on fully operational railway lines.
This is true. Also true of mothballed freight lines to a lesser extent.
Although it was all pulled up & replaced anyway. The costs for Tavistock are probably a better comparison though, it's - aside from having a tunnel - a fairly similar situation.
uglymonkey
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Which does seem mad on the basis of the trackbed already existing. One of the reasons why we get so few reopenings is the cost is eye watering.
HSTEd
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A notional trackbed that might have held a railway in the 1960s is not much better than an open field in terms of modern engineering requirements.
Indeed in some ways it might be worse because it tends to have been built with terrible clearances and may prevent modern plant equipment being efficiently employed.
You also have sections where it runs parallel to a river with a high tidal reach. Some of those bridges and Culverts I doubt are up to scratch either.
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Umberleigh
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Hi, interesting discussion. I have lived in Barnstaple and remember the freight line to Meet being lifted, later cycled the trackbed to Meeth and have walked the trackbed to Braunton. My understanding is that substantial utility cables were laid across the Bideford line trackbed after closure (near Sticklepath woods) and are too shallow to allow a simple relaying of the railway. Pretty sure they are electricity cables laid by SWEB (as was) but might even be gas pipes.
Bere Alston to Tavistock will go ahead because of the same strong public and local government partnership that campaigned relentlessly for the Okehampton reopening and have proven their case with the far better than forecast passenger numbers (despite the pessimism from some quarters). Incidentally, I used the so-called express coach laid on by First bus that ran direct to Okehampton and then onto Bude and it took ages just to crawl through the traffic over the Exe road bridges.
As for North Devon, from experience the traffic between Barnstaple and Braunton gets horribly congested in the summer due to the bottle necks at each end of the dual carriageway (especially the Barnstaple end). A light rail scheme from the old Barnstaple Town station area (or the Strand bus station) to a Braunton Park & Ride and the town centre is feasible and I believe would be a success, especially if buses from Croyde and Ilfracombe etc connected at Braunton (plenty of space for a P&R between Braunton and Chivenor). There is a local group who are proposing this light rail scheme:
However, as yet they do not have the public and political momentum.
As regards Bideford, there is defiantly more of a head of steam building up in terms of getting the public and both local and central government on board (sorry for all the puns):
Today Friday 1st March 2024, the North Devon Railway Alliance was launched in one of Bideford's most known historic landmarks the Royal Hotel.
Organised by Railfuture, the aim of this alliance is in the long term, to reopen the Barnstaple to Bideford section of line that was closed by Dr Richard Beeching in 1965.
The alliance also has aims to upgrade the existing Tarka Line, between Barnstaple and Exeter St David's, including track upgrades, installing new signals and infrastructure maintenance.
Those in attendance at the Royal Hotel included 13 different stakeholder organisations, which between them made up over thirty representatives in total.
They committed jointly to develop upon plans made by the local council which were previously passed and funded already, to put to the government a extremely strong case to support the reconnection of the line, to benefit the 40,000 residents of Torridge, which also has a station on the Barnstaple to Bideford line.
The new Alliance's statement of purpose is “To secure a new rail link between Bideford and Barnstaple and upgrade of the North Devon (Tarka) Line between Exeter and Barnstaple, championing their transformational benefits for communities and businesses and advocating to decision-makers the economic, social and environmental case for developing and investing in the project.”
Like most lines that closed in the 1960s Bideford has struggled economically, though its fortunes will be greatly turned around if the line is reinstated.
The local area will also benefit with a up take in tourism. There is historical military interest, as Winston Churchill and Dwight D. Eisenhower met in Bideford as part of the planning and preparation of D-Day which was taking place further up the Devon coast.
"The local ‘ACE Rail' campaign set up by the Tarka Rail Association is supported by ‘Railfuture' and it has been building up local support which has helped in the creation of todays new alliance.
Torridge & West Devon MP the Rt Hon Sir Geoffrey Cox KC said in a statement “You are embarking on a very worthwhile cause. There is substantial support in Torridge for exploring the viability and economic case for this important railway connection to Barnstaple. Housing and population growth are likely to require improved communication links in the future. Such a link would no doubt require the upgrading of the line between Barnstaple and Exeter, and that too would have incalculable benefits for Torridge.”"
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... and that is how you get the millions of pounds from government to reopen railway lines, even if other local former lines have a better business case. Well if it does ever open then in my opinion it should be called the "Speller Line" to recognise his tireless campaigning to save this line and others. It is on record in Hansard that in 1966 BR tried to shut both the Barnstaple and Okehampton lines on cost grounds due to the Cowley Exe bridges needing urgent replacement and that this cost to the taxpayer could not be justified. Thankfully, the likes of Tony Speller fiercely resisted this, the bridges were rebuilt and at a lower cost than had been forecast (strange that, eh?)
So there you are, don't expect everyone to agree with me but that is my take on the situation.
Bere Alston to Tavistock will go ahead because of the same strong public and local government partnership that campaigned relentlessly for the Okehampton reopening and have proven their case with the far better than forecast passenger numbers (despite the pessimism from some quarters). Incidentally, I used the so-called express coach laid on by First bus that ran direct to Okehampton and then onto Bude and it took ages just to crawl through the traffic over the Exe road bridges.
As for North Devon, from experience the traffic between Barnstaple and Braunton gets horribly congested in the summer due to the bottle necks at each end of the dual carriageway (especially the Barnstaple end). A light rail scheme from the old Barnstaple Town station area (or the Strand bus station) to a Braunton Park & Ride and the town centre is feasible and I believe would be a success, especially if buses from Croyde and Ilfracombe etc connected at Braunton (plenty of space for a P&R between Braunton and Chivenor). There is a local group who are proposing this light rail scheme:
However, as yet they do not have the public and political momentum.
As regards Bideford, there is defiantly more of a head of steam building up in terms of getting the public and both local and central government on board (sorry for all the puns):
Today Friday 1st March 2024, the North Devon Railway Alliance was launched in one of Bideford's most known historic landmarks the Royal Hotel.
Organised by Railfuture, the aim of this alliance is in the long term, to reopen the Barnstaple to Bideford section of line that was closed by Dr Richard Beeching in 1965.
The alliance also has aims to upgrade the existing Tarka Line, between Barnstaple and Exeter St David's, including track upgrades, installing new signals and infrastructure maintenance.
Those in attendance at the Royal Hotel included 13 different stakeholder organisations, which between them made up over thirty representatives in total.
They committed jointly to develop upon plans made by the local council which were previously passed and funded already, to put to the government a extremely strong case to support the reconnection of the line, to benefit the 40,000 residents of Torridge, which also has a station on the Barnstaple to Bideford line.
The new Alliance's statement of purpose is “To secure a new rail link between Bideford and Barnstaple and upgrade of the North Devon (Tarka) Line between Exeter and Barnstaple, championing their transformational benefits for communities and businesses and advocating to decision-makers the economic, social and environmental case for developing and investing in the project.”
Like most lines that closed in the 1960s Bideford has struggled economically, though its fortunes will be greatly turned around if the line is reinstated.
The local area will also benefit with a up take in tourism. There is historical military interest, as Winston Churchill and Dwight D. Eisenhower met in Bideford as part of the planning and preparation of D-Day which was taking place further up the Devon coast.
"The local ‘ACE Rail' campaign set up by the Tarka Rail Association is supported by ‘Railfuture' and it has been building up local support which has helped in the creation of todays new alliance.
Torridge & West Devon MP the Rt Hon Sir Geoffrey Cox KC said in a statement “You are embarking on a very worthwhile cause. There is substantial support in Torridge for exploring the viability and economic case for this important railway connection to Barnstaple. Housing and population growth are likely to require improved communication links in the future. Such a link would no doubt require the upgrading of the line between Barnstaple and Exeter, and that too would have incalculable benefits for Torridge.”"
Scheme aims to reinstate rail links to Devon town
"Bideford is a large urban community, and it's been left behind"
... and that is how you get the millions of pounds from government to reopen railway lines, even if other local former lines have a better business case. Well if it does ever open then in my opinion it should be called the "Speller Line" to recognise his tireless campaigning to save this line and others. It is on record in Hansard that in 1966 BR tried to shut both the Barnstaple and Okehampton lines on cost grounds due to the Cowley Exe bridges needing urgent replacement and that this cost to the taxpayer could not be justified. Thankfully, the likes of Tony Speller fiercely resisted this, the bridges were rebuilt and at a lower cost than had been forecast (strange that, eh?)
So there you are, don't expect everyone to agree with me but that is my take on the situation.