Why is it often cheaper to Fly from Edinburgh - Birmingham?

[Butts]

Hi I'm new on here....

I often travel between Edinburgh and Birmingham and if you book in advance and are flexible it is almost always cheaper to Fly than take the train (certainly 1st Class) not to mention quicker.

You can also book much further ahead than you can with the train which assists advanced planning and hence saving money.

The cheapest 1st Class Fare I can find between Edinburgh and Birmingham is £57.50 on XC (slow via Newcastle) single and about £60 on Virgin (much quicker)

The 1st Open return is dearer than Economy Plus on FLY-BE -you could hire a car pay for the petrol and still have plenty of change.

Considering the plane on the EDI-BHX route only holds about 90odd people compared to hundreds on the train where are the economies of scale.

Now the APD has gone up the cheapest return on the plane is about £70 including fees (hand baggage only)

Finally do members feel the train would today be more competitive had the Railways not been privatised ?

 

[Failed Unit]

For me personally the train is always cheaper because of the cost of getting to the airport and getting into Central Birmingham. I must admit the cheapest AP is very hard to get hold of. I nearly always need to get the walk on fare at about £110 return. It is like most of these comparison. How close to the airport you are and your final destination make a big difference. I agree the train is very slow however.

 

[yorkie]

Railways use different 3-letter codes to airports so I removed the codes in your topic title. (Edinburgh is EDB; Birmingham New Street is BHM).

How much is an "open" plane ticket allowing you to get a regular service of planes? Such a ticket, allowing travel at any time and returning any day within a month by train is £110.80 on any rail operator. Does such a plane ticket exist? If so, I bet it is a lot more expensive.

 

[EM2]

It's not a journey I've ever done (well, except once and I had a complimentary ticket for half of it...) but you aren't comparing like-for-like.

If you're in Edinburgh city centre, and your appointment is in Birmingham city centre, how much extra do you have to add on to get to and from the airports? And how soon before your flight do you have to be there? And I see you mention hand baggage only. So what iof you want to take a suitcase, how much extra is that?
You're also assuming that everyone on that train is doing the whole journey. Also a 1st Open is not equivalent to an Economy Plus plane ticket is it? Is the E+ a walk-up fare?
Checking on the EC website, leaving Edinburgh at 06:52 tomorrow, a 1st class single is £214.50. A Flybe Economy Plus single ticket (including taxes and charges) is £209.

 

[route:oxford]

£1.50 is normally the best fare that I can find - usually on the 16.50 service from Edinburgh to Birmingham mid-week.

That would be standard class accommodation though.

Not much in it door to door between plane and train... Scott Monument to Bullring anyway.

Train is approximately 4 hours and 10 mins walking - 4h10m

Plane is 45 mins on bus, 1hr check-in & security, 1hr15m in the air, 15m train, then 20m walking - 3h35m.

 

[Butts]

It's not a journey I've ever done (well, except once and I had a complimentary ticket for half of it...) but you aren't comparing like-for-like.

If you're in Edinburgh city centre, and your appointment is in Birmingham city centre, how much extra do you have to add on to get to and from the airports? And how soon before your flight do you have to be there? And I see you mention hand baggage only. So what iof you want to take a suitcase, how much extra is that?
You're also assuming that everyone on that train is doing the whole journey. Also a 1st Open is not equivalent to an Economy Plus plane ticket is it? Is the E+ a walk-up fare?
Checking on the EC website, leaving Edinburgh at 06:52 tomorrow, a 1st class single is £214.50. A Flybe Economy Plus single ticket (including taxes and charges) is £209.

An Economy Plus Ticket is £182.02 + taxes which you are right is probably about £209 with the fees - Baggage up to 40kg is actually included along with lounge access refreshments etc - This is the maximum fare on this route.

I agree with your point about CITY CENTRE - CITY CENTRE however the time advantage is with the plane (45mins) which probably makes up for getting to and from the Airport both ends.

I am not trying to create a war just trying to find out how a 1st Class Open Return Fare of £429 is justified. I feel the comparison between Plane and Train has to be on the basis of 1st Class.

I do travel on the train and recently got a bargain 1st Class Ticket from Falkirk to Sandwell & Dudley for £60 on a Friday - it was a Virgin Voyager on the Edinburgh - Wolverhampton Leg and the Steward was excellent (only 5 people in the carriage - two ciders, three whisky's , assorted sandwiches and snacks all gratis) in fact amazingly this came up as the cheapest ticket when I booked on the Virgin Site ( the cheapest 2nd class on the same train was £80 a no brainer !!!)
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£1.50 is normally the best fare that I can find - usually on the 16.50 service from Edinburgh to Birmingham mid-week.

That would be standard class accommodation though.

Not much in it door to door between plane and train... Scott Monument to Bullring anyway.

Train is approximately 4 hours and 10 mins walking - 4h10m

Plane is 45 mins on bus, 1hr check-in & security, 1hr15m in the air, 15m train, then 20m walking - 3h35m.

I take it the £1.50 is via Megatrain good luck to you - I would have done the same when I was a youngster.

I think you are getting a bit carried away with security - as a smoker I always go through at the last minute it is rarely more than 10mins at Edinburgh or Birmingham.

Flying Time is 45mins - 60mins normally.

I think I am to fussy being oldish and tall finding the Virgin 2nd Class a bit cramped - mind you I'd put up with it if they brought back smoking carriages.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Railways use different 3-letter codes to airports so I removed the codes in your topic title. (Edinburgh is EDB; Birmingham New Street is BHM).

How much is an "open" plane ticket allowing you to get a regular service of planes? Such a ticket, allowing travel at any time and returning any day within a month by train is £110.80 on any rail operator. Does such a plane ticket exist? If so, I bet it is a lot more expensive.

A First Class Open Return is £429 - that is the true yardstick for comparing a plane to a train. As you will see below the equivalent Economy Plus Ticket is about the same price. It is not a competition I'm just trying to establish why 1st Class Open Fares are so expensive !!

With regard to removing the codes is that not a little pedantic as I was referring to both Air and Rail so surely either code would be sufficient ?

 

[route:oxford]

I take it the £1.50 is via Megatrain good luck to you - I would have done the same when I was a youngster.

I think you are getting a bit carried away with security - as a smoker I always go through at the last minute it is rarely more than 10mins at Edinburgh or Birmingham.

Flying Time is 45mins - 60mins normally.

I think I am to fussy being oldish and tall finding the Virgin 2nd Class a bit cramped - mind you I'd put up with it if they brought back smoking carriages.

It is indeed Megatrain - an absolute bargain usually.

Being 6'2" myself, I find the seating quite tolerable - although I tend to sit very upright which might help.

I balance out my trips from Oxford to Scotland between driving, and public transport (train/plane).

What I really, really hate though... Is landing at Turnhouse, I'm convinced that the pilots use it to practice their steepest, bumpiest and fastest landings.

 

[Mojo]

You do realise Megatrain is exactly the same train, and exactly the same (Standard class) seats which everyone else uses?

As for lack of what you consider reasonably priced Advance tickets, the purpose of these, as on the Airlines, is to put bums on what would otherwise be empty seats. In my experience of CrossCountry's trains they have no problem doing this, although the typical journeys would be somewhat shorter (eg. Birmingham - Sheffield/Leeds/York; Sheffield - York/Newcastle, etc.)

 

[ainsworth74]

A First Class Open Return is £429 - that is the true yardstick for comparing a plane to a train. As you will see below the equivalent Economy Plus Ticket is about the same price. It is not a competition I'm just trying to establish why 1st Class Open Fares are so expensive !!

Will that ticket (the Economy Plus) let you travel on any flight with any operator travelling out any time from the start date (+5 days) and returning at any point in the following month?

 

[Butts]

It is indeed Megatrain - an absolute bargain usually.

Being 6'2" myself, I find the seating quite tolerable - although I tend to sit very upright which might help.

I balance out my trips from Oxford to Scotland between driving, and public transport (train/plane).

What I really, really hate though... Is landing at Turnhouse, I'm convinced that the pilots use it to practice their steepest, bumpiest and fastest landings.

I used to drive but with the cost of petrol and time involved one of the other options is preferable (mind you I can smoke in the car !!!)

I don't know why megatrain don't do First Class as well as often the carriages are empty be it one on a voyager or four on a pendelino !!!

Re Turnhouse - you should try Lerwick in Shetland !!!

I think you will agree (if youve tried it ) the Coach/Bus is the worst option:cry:
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Will that ticket (the Economy Plus) let you travel on any flight with any operator travelling out any time from the start date (+5 days) and returning at any point in the following month?

There is only one operator on the Air Route from Birmingham to Edinburgh-Fly Be (used to be BMI Baby as well but they jacked a while back)

The Economy Plus is the MAXIMUM fare on the route available on any plane (five or six a day normally) However cheaper fares are often available but more inflexible - charge to change etc)

It used to be much better when BA ran the route but Flybe got a foot in the door bought out BA and bumped up all the prices with numerous extras !!!

As far as I am concerned there is only one decent DIRECT operator on the rail route - namely Virgin for speed and service compared to XC.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

You do realise Megatrain is exactly the same train, and exactly the same (Standard class) seats which everyone else uses?

As for lack of what you consider reasonably priced Advance tickets, the purpose of these, as on the Airlines, is to put bums on what would otherwise be empty seats. In my experience of CrossCountry's trains they have no problem doing this, although the typical journeys would be somewhat shorter (eg. Birmingham - Sheffield/Leeds/York; Sheffield - York/Newcastle, etc.)

Yes I do realise that Megatrain is owned by Stagecoach who also have a 49% stake in Virgin Trains hence the BHM-EDB (hope I've got it right) tickets.

Cross Country's 1st Class Service is not a patch on Virgins - you have to pay for Alcohol if I remember correctly and the catering is abysmal in comparison.

With regard to megatrain it's a shame they don't extend the service to 1st Class as the carriages are often empty - with an appropriate increase in the fare say £5 as a starting point.

With the exception of Wrexham and Shropshire Railway and the Arriva North to South Wales Special the standard of complimentary catering on Virgin is pardon the pun "1st Class".

On East Coast your'e lucky to get a Coffee and packet of biscuits gratis:cry:
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I've had enough bashing in the Train/Plane department-you've converted me.

Now to stop me taking the plane can someone suggest a split ticketing from Falkirk to Sandwell and Dudley where I can get 1st Class cheaper than £60 for an advanced ticket - thats I think FGH to SAD in "rail lingo"

Any suggestions welcomed

ps It's the memory of two ciders, three double scotches, two sandwiches, two packets of crisps, two packets of pretzels and a banana all gratis-oh and a newspaper and free wifi !!!

 

[Failed Unit]

Why compare standard air to first rail is it down to time? You don't get anything in the air and the seat pitch is dreadful. The same as standard.

Best place to try and split is Preston. You can travel via both Glasgow and Edinburgh. The price to Falkirk is the same.

Virgin are really bad a APs on this route because of traffic levels between Birmingham and Preston. First class is often empty north of Preston as a result. Even when trying to split in my experience first is very expensive unless you can book 12 weeks before. Best of luck I will be interested in what people find myself. I typically sit in coach D in standard. More leg room and the train thinks you are in first.

 

[At_traction]

Not this again!

Plane is 45 mins on bus

In addition to the OP's other refinements on the timings, the Airlink/N22 takes 30-ish minutes Waverley to airport.

I am not trying to create a war

Are you certain you've come to the right place...?

It's the memory of two ciders, three double scotches

And you were able to walk off the train on your feet? And this was Virgin, I assume. Very relaxing drinks policy...

Why compare standard air to first rail is it down to time? You don't get anything in the air and the seat pitch is dreadful. The same as standard.

The comparisons, interestingly, indeed often seem to be between 1st Class rail and standard/steerage air... :roll:

On the other hand, with the time in the air being less than a quarter of the time in the train and with the revised total time for air being as much as 1½ hours less than train (with 30 mins for domestic flight security + 60 mins in the air), everyone can pick a choice according to their preferences.

 

[Failed Unit]

Very true and fair point. I can even tolerate ryanair on very short flights.

Just another warning to the original poster. Although it is virgin first class on that routes is poor. Last time I used it you didn't have any at seat service north of Preston you had to walk to the shop. For the difference in ticket price you can buy a lot of stuff from the shop (but make sure you take lots of cash Virgin don't accept cards).

If you can get someone to pick you up you are better flying as you don't need to double back. Just warn whoever picks you up the thieves at BAA want £1 just to collect you. Not much but the principle!
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I hate the airline experience myself any you are a terrorist attitude of the industry. Along with we treat you like £&@! Ethos. I will always take the train unless I have no choice. I am bias. But the Birmingham - edinburgh route is not rails finest either. To a neutral or the op I would recommend flying to be honest.

 

[Butts]

I have a confession to make the main thing that puts me off Rail Travel is the time spent in a "smoke free zone" (hopeless addict !!)

With regard to the availability of Advanced 1st Tickets on the Falkirk to Sandwell & Dudley route I have been able to book 2 at £60 with only a couple of days notice.

One was Friday 7th January (1452 from Edinburgh strangely direct to SAD didnt have to change at Wolverhampton) Pendelino

The other was Tuesday 11th January (1852 from Edinburgh change at Wolverhampton) Super Voyager

The other services were £214 on both days just to put into perspective what a bargain it was.

The service on the Voyager is often better as there is only one 1st Class Carriage and hence the Steward is constantly "doing his rounds"

Coming back I have managed to slice a bit off by doing SAD to STA and connecting with the London to Glasgow Pendelino on occasions.

 

[route:oxford]

If you can get someone to pick you up you are better flying as you don't need to double back. Just warn whoever picks you up the thieves at BAA want £1 just to collect you. Not much but the principle!

Has that started now?

Penny-pinching sods - I'll be waiting at the rounabout get collected now I think. I'm told that they're losing a lot of income as a consequence of drivers waiting or parking all day at the free park&ride facility 200 metres from the airport roundabout.

 

[gordonthemoron]

Economy plane seating is far more cramped than standard class rail seating

I fly a lot, generally with lufthansa and jet2

 

[Butts]

Economy plane seating is far more cramped than standard class rail seating

I fly a lot, generally with lufthansa and jet2

The Embraer on the Edinburgh - Birmingham route is not to bad - remember its only 45 mins in the air - if you fly Economy Plus you can choose an exit seat free of charge.

 

[Failed Unit]

Has that started now?

Penny-pinching sods - I'll be waiting at the rounabout get collected now I think. I'm told that they're losing a lot of income as a consequence of drivers waiting or parking all day at the free park&ride facility 200 metres from the airport roundabout.

Yes they have. Expect it to be rolled out to other airports soon and be increased to £5 shortly. I normally park near newbridge on the a8 and wait for a call. It isn't as if places like Linlithgow have a reasonable public transport alternative. Actually even Dalkieth doesn't but you dont feel like you're doubling back as badly.

I agree with the OP a 45 minute flight is OK no matter how bad the pitch is, just grin a bear it. Many people stand on trains for longer. Some sit on Merseyrail pacers for much longer. Rail can throw stones on seat pitch.