Why is rail travel in Cornwall so cheap ?

[rmt4ever]

Exactly, it's not like there's a lack of places to get a new Oyster card in those areas and top it up with cash, if one doesn't have a compatible bank card. It can no longer be done at any ticket desks* but everywhere else is still doing it.

*maybe it can at the visitor centres but there are very few of these remaining nowadays.

So at Richmond station you cant buy the Oyster card and put the cash on it to make this return journey. That is slightly outrageous. They are trying to force you to use this rather than cash paper tickets in one breath, then not even issuing it in the next.

 

[uglymonkey]

No it’s not that far, and it’s not a bad walk for pedestrians neither.
Under 10 mins walk easily.

Google maps shows 8 minute walk to the main shopping streets, but directs out via north road east exit which nobody with local knowledge would do. Leave the station via Saltash road, walk under the subways, which are well lit, and you are in the shopping streets

It's fine going to Royal Parade ( or wherever) from the station, its downhill. Problem is its all uphill ( with carrying shopping) on the way back. Even if you cut down through the uni via Endsleigh ( and back) it's still uphill one way. Friary was better for walk to the shops, as it was on the flat - but it was a deadend ( and North Road would have had better connections anyway - so it shut.

 

[robert thomas]

Walk up fares are the second most expensive in Europe after Norway, according to multiple studies I'

Walk up fares are the second most expensive in Europe after Norway, according to multiple studies I've seen.

Not if using day returns which are unheard of in most of Europe

 

[akm]

So at Richmond station you cant buy the Oyster card and put the cash on it to make this return journey. That is slightly outrageous. They are trying to force you to use this rather than cash paper tickets in one breath, then not even issuing it in the next.

Here are some places (the blue indicators) convenient to Richmond station where you can buy Oyster cards:



I might suggest you could do with raising your 'outrage' bar...

 

[Starmill]

Here are some places (the blue indicators) convenient to Richmond station where you can buy Oyster cards:

View attachment 151570

I might suggest you could do with raising your 'outrage' bar...

You can get one inside the station too, from a ticket machine...

 

[The exile]

Here are some places (the blue indicators) convenient to Richmond station where you can buy Oyster cards:

View attachment 151570

I might suggest you could do with raising your 'outrage' bar...

It does, however, in a Uk context seem counterintuitive that you can do this at a newsagent’s (or wherever) but not at the railway station.

 

[Starmill]

They are trying to force you to use this rather than cash paper tickets in one breath, then not even issuing it in the next.

Because nearly everyone already has one that's why? But for the small number who don't, such as foreign visitors to London travelling for the first time by public transport, who've only got cash they brought with them from a travel currency shop at home, they can still buy and top up.

 

[akm]

You can get one inside the station too, from a ticket machine...

I assumed (yes, I know the saying) from the outraged poster's tone that you couldn't!

 

[Starmill]

I assumed (yes, I know the saying) from the outraged poster's tone that you couldn't!

I can only assume they're just trying to make life difficult. In any case I don't think there's a parallel with future payg in Cornwall so if they want to keep having that argument they should probably do it in a new thread.

 

[PyrahnaRanger]

If you declare the extra Mileage or that that you’re using it in connection to work your insurance premium will increase.

You’d think so, wouldn’t you? But insurance is a strange world, and a number of people I’ve spoken to have had business use added to their policy recently and seen the total cost drop!

It also occurs to me that I’d still need a vehicle of some sort to get to the station. The nearest bus stop is around three miles away, and wouldn’t get me there for the first or back from the last train locally, and if I wanted to hit the mainline it would be a good two and a half hours by bus.

(Dis)Integrated Transport, anyone?

 

[northernbelle]

it can be even cheaper still if you're a resident, via the Devon and Cornwall railcard (no other eligibility criteria required). the rovers can also be good value.

that said it probably should be cheap given the lack of investment it receives

Lack of investment!? You're obviously not living in the same Cornwall as I am!

 

[richw]

it can be even cheaper still if you're a resident, via the Devon and Cornwall railcard (no other eligibility criteria required). the rovers can also be good value.

that said it probably should be cheap given the lack of investment it receives

There has been plenty of investment in Cornwall. Signal upgrades so we have more frequent trains. We now have 2 trains per hour. Previously we had some gaps of over an hour or even longer. Lots of money been spent on stations being smartened up

 

[eisenach]

I must say, I was pretty impressed with GWR's service in Cornwall. Journey times aren't particularly fast, but they seem reliable (every train we used ran, and was on time). The stations are clean and present well, helped by the time-warp atmosphere and the charm of semaphore signals. The trains themselves were clean and suitable for the task. Class 150s on the branch lines are fine, the remaining Castle Class trains are smooth, tidy, and ride well, although the seat pitch is tight and the seat backs seem very high. (The Castle from Plymouth to St. Erth was a welcome relief after the overheated, cramped and dirty Cross Country 220.) I even found myself liking the IETs, though my bum was a bit numb after the 5+ hour journey from St. Erth to Newport.

All-in-all, the rail journeys contributed to a good week's holiday.

 

[Sealink]

I know that Devon CC have a fare cap on train tickets within Devon and a few stations across the border in Cornwall, I am sure Cornwall CC do the same.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Every Time I go on holiday down that way I continue to be impressed by GWRs operation.

Sure they have faults but it goes to show what happens when you have supportive county and local councils with a competent operator that is interested in improving things. I'm sure much of that is driven from the top in GWR with their MD who clearly is passionate.

Just an echo on the thread but pleasing to know I'm not the only one who has noticed.

 

[RPI]

Every Time I go on holiday down that way I continue to be impressed by GWRs operation.

Sure they have faults but it goes to show what happens when you have supportive county and local councils with a competent operator that is interested in improving things. I'm sure much of that is driven from the top in GWR with their MD who clearly is passionate.

Just an echo on the thread but pleasing to know I'm not the only one who has noticed.

The only thing we desperately need is additional, reliable, stock.

 

[Requeststop]

I find getting around home is fairly cheap. Truro-St.Ives return last November being £5.85 using my Senior Rail Card is fine. The St Erth Connections are OK and it's a bit of a bonus if the service from Truro is running slightly late as there is less of a wait. The bus is free for me having my Cornwall County wide card which gives me free bus travel throughout England, but I'd not use the Truro-St Ives/Penzance bus, the T1/T2 services as they go around everywhere and takes an age. More or less an hour and a half one way on both services.
Train from Falmouth to Newquay is an absolute bore. The two changes and usually an ultra long wait for a connection at Par. I'd be more inclined to travel on the bus U1/U1A from Truro to Newquay after the good regular ride from Falmouth to Truro by train; Fortunately, the buses to Newquay stop just over the road from the station.

Maybe we'll wait an age for the Mid-Cornwall Metro to come into being with the train run direct from Falmouth to Newquay to see of there is any improvement in times.

What Cornwall is lacking in public transport is a good wintertime service in many parts. Only 2 buses a day to my favourite pub in the county wintertime during opening hours.

What Cornwall needs is a good express county bus service, Penzance to Plymouth, stopping at just St Erth, Cambourne, Redruth, Truro, St Austell, Bodmin and Plymouth. A decent service to the North East of the County from Wadebridge onwards and Liskeard-Bude.

Yes getting around Cornwall's main towns in the West is fine, with an adequate bus and train service and it's cheap if you have the right concessions only. I just need a better winter service to Zennor. Sigh!

 

[sor]

Lack of investment!? You're obviously not living in the same Cornwall as I am!

My birth certificate says otherwise!

There has been plenty of investment in Cornwall. Signal upgrades so we have more frequent trains. We now have 2 trains per hour. Previously we had some gaps of over an hour or even longer. Lots of money been spent on stations being smartened up

For both posts - I guess I'm just not seeing anything "transformational". 30 min main line is the only thing that gets close, but as with any sort of transport investment in Cornwall, road or rail, it's always "why wasn't this done decades ago" (or why *was* it done decades ago for the single track sections that have since been redoubled). Strong parallels to the agonisingly long process of dualling the A30.

It's hard to be enthuasistic over things like PAYG ticketing (not that I can really use it since I'm in the bit that will get it as part of the Mid Cornwall Metro) when the core issues remain - it's still a slow mainline that can often be beaten by a car, with aging rolling stock except for the 802s, and with many stations lacking the investment so sorely needed. St Austell finally got its footbridge and second waiting room, at least.

Resignalling, aside from the bits needed for the increased mainline service, is more for NR's benefit than anyone else's and AFAIK doesn't deliver any real service improvements.

I might change my mind if/when MCM does happen, because that is a considerable step forward & I happen to be in the area - but it's not there yet.

 

[Bedpan]

If you're using it each day, the 8 in 15 day Devon and Cornwall one works out at ~£12 per day for a ticket covering Tiverton to Penzance without a railcard, which is excellent value for a 300-mile (by rail) round trip which is £28 for an off-peak day return. I doubt many people would make a 3½ hour trip each way eight times in two weeks, but it's definitely cheap enough.

£28 off peak day return from Tiverton to Penzance? Sounds remarkable value, Harpenden to Brighton (156 mile round trip, average speed about 42mph) is £39.50.

 

[Jamesrob637]

£28 off peak day return from Tiverton to Penzance? Sounds remarkable value, Harpenden to Brighton (156 mile round trip, average speed about 42mph) is £39.50.

Tiverton to Penzance return is 280 miles (ish)

 

[ic31420]

I suppose this spawns another discussion of is Rail Prohibitively expensive for you.

We also Holiday in Cornwall a return ticket to Bolton, with a friend's and family (2adults 1 free child 1 child paying) would cost us £421. Whereas the car costs under £110 all in.

Next week we're off to the lakes for a week. Train is an option. Tickets would cost £94 and take 3 hours door to door assuming I took the car to my local station. Driving takes 95mins and will cost £15 all in.

It's these cold hard costs that keep me off rail.

That said when in Cornwall we'll likely use St Ives, Looe branches and rail to get around. In the lakes we will likely have a trip on the s&c to go for a walk somewhere or use the train to return us to St Bees after walking from Whitehaven or vice versa. But the main get is there journey is impractically expensive.

Another journey we do regularly is to York for a night or two. I can usually get that under £50 from Bolton. Which with parking in York at about £20-25 a night usually makes the train cheaper. But we go from Accrington we can get under £30. Sl


*when I say all in I'm allowing for fuel and a days allowance for insurance, tax, MOT, maintenance and depreciation.

 

[sh24]

I'd echo the comments that the rail service in Cornwall has improved significantly. Thinking back to the 80's when the mainline service wasn't even hourly, 2 trains per hour each way is quite the step on. While the crank in me enjoyed a Class 50 on Mk 1's, I suspect the travelling public are much happier with an IET. Even the Class 150's used by GWR have the least worst interior deployed on that DMU.

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

I suppose this spawns another discussion of is Rail Prohibitively expensive for you.

We also Holiday in Cornwall a return ticket to Bolton, with a friend's and family (2adults 1 free child 1 child paying) would cost us £421. Whereas the car costs under £110 all in.

Next week we're off to the lakes for a week. Train is an option. Tickets would cost £94 and take 3 hours door to door assuming I took the car to my local station. Driving takes 95mins and will cost £15 all in.

It's these cold hard costs that keep me off rail.

That said when in Cornwall we'll likely use St Ives, Looe branches and rail to get around. In the lakes we will likely have a trip on the s&c to go for a walk somewhere or use the train to return us to St Bees after walking from Whitehaven or vice versa. But the main get is there journey is impractically expensive.

Another journey we do regularly is to York for a night or two. I can usually get that under £50 from Bolton. Which with parking in York at about £20-25 a night usually makes the train cheaper. But we go from Accrington we can get under £30. Sl


*when I say all in I'm allowing for fuel and a days allowance for insurance, tax, MOT, maintenance and depreciation.

Why would one be free? I thought up to 4 children got 60% off, so neither should be free?

 

[ic31420]

Why would one be free? I thought up to 4 children got 60% off, so neither should be free?

She's only 2

 

[al78]

Most cars depreciate at least £1000 per year - ie a car you buy for £10000 today you might sell for £9000 next year. So thats a fixed cost of at least £3 a day whether you use it or not.

A cost which is related to owning a car, much less related to any car journey, and so that cost should only be included if it is a financially relevant lifestyle decision to buy a car or be car free and use public transport. Depreciation is far less if you buy second hand cars as the majority of the depreciation happens shortly after driving it out of the showroom so it is not a linear £3/day depreciation.

 

[Busaholic]

Every Time I go on holiday down that way I continue to be impressed by GWRs operation.

Sure they have faults but it goes to show what happens when you have supportive county and local councils with a competent operator that is interested in improving things. I'm sure much of that is driven from the top in GWR with their MD who clearly is passionate.

Just an echo on the thread but pleasing to know I'm not the only one who has noticed.

The main gaps are weekday mornings pre 9 a.m.westbound, and the same after 7 p.m. eastbound, both being more pronounced on the Truro to Penzance stretch. It was a retrograde step to not allow local passengers on the sleepers, even though I understand the reasons. On Sundays the first arrival into Penzance is ridiculously late.

 

[davetheguard]

I know that Devon CC have a fare cap on train tickets within Devon and a few stations across the border in Cornwall, I am sure Cornwall CC do the same.

I've never heard that Devon County Council (or Cornwall's) have any involvement in public train fare levels. Surely a fare cap as mentioned by "Sealink" above would require a financial contribution by the Council? Or, are we just talking some sort of arrangement for students using season tickets to travel to college?

Do you have a link to demonstrate this assertion?

 

[Pigeon]

People who advocate public transport like to throw around the fixed costs of motoring because they know that public transport has zero chance of competing with the private car on an individual journey tangible cost basis, so they try to claim the fixed costs matter in an attempt to make a public transport journey compare favourably.

It's particularly annoying when officialdom comes out with it after fares have increased in an attempt to make out that they're not really eye-wateringly expensive, they just look that way.

The other people who do it are accountancy nerds, who tend to be people with a lot of money anyway so it doesn't actually matter to them, but they don't think like normal people and do it because they enjoy it.

Since this forum is (a) about a form of public transport and (b) has many people who clock up tremendous mileages and so must have a lot of money to pay the fares, it is not surprising to find that viewpoint over-represented in threads like this.

Because if it comes to a financial decision over which mode of transport to use, it it the tangible costs that matter and the tangible cost of driving is the cost of fuel. Servicing/MOT/VED/insurance are (mostly) fixed costs associated with owning a car and are only relevant for comparison with public transport if the financial decision is do I go car free and use public transport for moderate to long journeys, or do I own a car and use it for those journeys.

Exactly. The cost of the fuel is the only thing that counts. If a bunch of mates are sharing the cost of a car trip somewhere, they work it out by dividing the cost of the fuel by the number of people. Nobody uses the accountancy-nerd method. It's the sort of thing that is likely to cause arguments even if all the mates concerned are accountants.

It's one of those situations where it doesn't actually matter whether you think this is a correct or an incorrect way of doing it, because whether it's correct or not, it is what people do, and they're not going to stop doing it. Therefore any attempt at consideration of whether or not public transport fares are "expensive" must accept that it is the price of car fuel that people will be comparing them against. To dismiss that because you think it is incorrect is to move the discussion out of the realm of the reality that it is supposed to be discussing, and renders the whole attempt pointless.

 

[Sealink]

I've never heard that Devon County Council (or Cornwall's) have any involvement in public train fare levels. Surely a fare cap as mentioned by "Sealink" above would require a financial contribution by the Council? Or, are we just talking some sort of arrangement for students using season tickets to travel to college?

Do you have a link to demonstrate this assertion?

Sorry for the delay in replying. Calling it a fare cap was very inaccurate, my pal who worked at a Devon rail station explained that off peak fares will not exceed the cost of a Devon Day Ranger.

So also applies to Day Returns only!