Why is railway catering such a rip off?

[Master29]

Nothing in Switzerland is reasonably priced!

Not necessarily true, and while we're on the subject neither is here.

 

[Robertj21a]

Also poor food, poor servicee and an owner who is an absolute idiot, who treats his staff like muck. But, of course, you are free to choose them.



Sorry in advance, but after 20 years of giving W*th*rsp**ns second chances, I realised they were just rubbish. I will happily pay double their prices for better food, drinks and service. I won’t darken their door again*, unless it is to use their toilets.

*or contribute to Tim Martin’s growing pile of cash. I’d much rather give it to a local publican.

Strange comments. I'm no great fan of Wetherspoons but I have found them useful as I travel around the country. Food is generally ok, prices are good and service to the table is usually fast.

 

[Butts]

Nothing in Switzerland is reasonably priced!

Except Public Transport - Free Ticket from Geneva Airport into Town and then a Free Pass from your Hotel for the duration of your stay.

The 'Spoons at Heathrow T5 is definitely NOT selling beer or food at high st prices.

But the BA Lounge is giving it all away for free and a lot more of an extensive range than it's rail counterparts.

You can easily go through £20 or £30 worth of product in one visit.

Great perk the old Silver Card.

 

[Wolfie]

I think the 'closest Spoons to public transport' award is held by the Hillsborough one in Sheffield, the tram stop is literally aligned with the entrance

View attachment 100900

I've been in that one (on my way to Hillsborough) and agree that it's a good pub. If you want to add "close to public transport" then Baker Street London definitely features...

The Metropolitan Bar

www.jdwetherspoon.com

 

[dk1]

If you want to add "close to public transport" then Baker Street London definitely features...

The Metropolitan Bar

www.jdwetherspoon.com

Always had excellent service in there. Very convenient indeed.

 

[Wolfie]

Still can’t believe sensible people choose to go to W*th*rsp**ns.

I don't like the sub-Faragian political lectures (so don't read the magazine) and the food isn't the greatest but they do consistently deliver a good pint of real ale, often brews that l haven't come across before, at decent prices. Other chains or independents (if l haven't got the Good Beer guide handy or online access) certainly don't do that.

Always had excellent service in there. Very convenient indeed.

Agreed. Wonderful building too. The Liverpool Street one is similar but spoilt by some of the AH clientele.

 

[dk1]

I don't like the sub-Faragian political lectures (so don't read the magazine) and the food isn't the greatest but they do consistently deliver a good pint of real ale, often brews that l haven't come across before, at decent prices. Other chains or independents (if l haven't got the Good Beer guide handy or online access) certainly don't do that.


Agreed. Wonderful building too. The Liverpool Street one is similar but spoilt by some of the AH clientele.

To be honest I like drinking at Hamilton Hall if out in London but for breakfast on duty I prefer the nearby Crosse Keys.

 

[Wolfie]

To be honest I like drinking at Hamilton Hall if out in London but for breakfast on duty I prefer the nearby Crosse Keys.

The Crosse Keys is well known for real ale range and quality. Never had breakfast there but I'll have to give it a go.

I miss the one that used to be in the basement near Bank (can't recall its name) but rate the one on Cannon Street for beer quality. The real annoyance there is having to go across the station and downstairs for the loo....

Digressing a tad, also a sad miss for a generation plus of civil servants is the Lord Moon on the Mall. However, l'm looking forward to the new Spoons due opposite the Royal Courts if Justice. I understand that it's another historic building so let's see what they do with it....

 

[py_megapixel]

Not mentioned so far, I think, is the WH Smith Coffee House brand, which appeared overnight a few years ago in Scotland at least and took over the Upper Crust spaces at Dundee station and elsewhere. Not sure whether the tentacles of SSP are still involved but the coffee is just as undrinkable and the rest of the offering similarly underwhelming and overpriced.

There used to be a self service machine under the Coffee House brand in the WHSmith at Stockport. You could get a half-decent cup of tea pretty cheap (I think about £1.50, maybe £1) and I often did when I had a connection there. Not so long ago they replaced it with a Nescafe-branded machine. As such I no longer use it, firstly because I refuse to buy anything from Nestle, and secondly because they increased the prices massively.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Except Public Transport - Free Ticket from Geneva Airport into Town and then a Free Pass from your Hotel for the duration of your stay.

Not totally free to be fair - it's paid for by the tourist tax charged on hotel rooms. I do approve of the principle though, if people are paying for it anyway they may well use it.

 

[trebor79]

Also poor food, poor servicee and an owner who is an absolute idiot, who treats his staff like muck. But, of course, you are free to choose them.

Tim Martin might be many things, but he definitely isn't an idiot!
I wouldn't say the food is poor in Wetherspoons. It's mass produced pub grub, and they charge mass produce pub grub prices so it's absolutely fine (although I haven't had a Wetherspoons meal for a few years now). The beer is usually well kept and the lack of music means you can enjoy a quiet pint and chat with your mates if that's what you want.
Marstons various chains sell mass produced pub grub and try to get away with selling it at "indepedent home made pub grub" prices.

Coming back on topic, I do wonder if GBR becoming a thing offers a chance to reset railway catering. I have a suspicion it'll continue largely as it is though. I do think reasonably priced trolley services or vending machines on some routes could do very well though. Thinking of my local Breckland line, it has far higher loadings than the Settle-Carlisle which seems to support an independent trolley operation (and very good it was too!)

 

[Wolfie]

I fully agree, but some people like them.....especially carpet spotters!


Cheap microwaved or boil-in-the-bag food and cheap beer that's usually on or past its sell-by date plus usually very slow service, as they rarely had enough staff on duty to cope with the demand - even before the Brexit/Covid debacles made things even worse. Fabulous unique and individual Axminster carpets though....specially made for every branch and they have preserved and conserved some fine historic buildings which would have otherwise gone to rack and ruin. I'm not a Wetherspoon's hater....I just prefer to eat and drink elsewhere, except as a last resort - or if a group of friends or ex-colleagues have chosen to meet in one. At the end of the day, they do fulfill a useful function providing food, drink and shelter to less well-off members of our community.

The "beer being at or past its sell by date" is a myth promulgated by jealous less successful rivals from Spoons' early days. Apart from anything else selling it past its date could get them prosecuted. Indeed l have at times seen Manager's Specials on both food and drink to avoid exactly that.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The "beer being at or past its sell by date" is a myth promulgated by jealous less successful rivals from Spoons' early days. Apart from anything else selling it past its date could get them prosecuted. Indeed l have at times seen Manager's Specials on both food and drink to avoid exactly that.

It is sort of true. They clearly don't sell past the sell by date. However, they do sometimes obtain ales cheaply close to the sell by date.

It won't be true of food, they get that from a "foodservice" type company as essentially microwave/fryer meals.

 

[Wolfie]

It is sort of true. They clearly don't sell past the sell by date. However, they do sometimes obtain ales cheaply close to the sell by date.

It won't be true of food, they get that from a "foodservice" type company as essentially microwave/fryer meals.

We're way off topic but the requirement for stillage means that ales can't be that close to the sell by date.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Late to this thread. But last week I have been finding Boots on stations doing some sandwiches for £1 Chicken Mayo and £1.50 Triple. I used them on St Pancras and Paddington. Think I saw same on Euston. Marks and Spencer always did a 2l bottle of water for 50p and still did last week but their sandwiches have gone up I feel.

But for longer days I have for decades taken a loaf of sliced bread, cheese singles and sliced ham. Plus an empty plastic box to keep the cheese and ham in.

I avoid on train catering as it is unreliable and it is many years since I stumped up for warm food on stations.

 

[mpthomson]

I didn't know about SSP. The funny thing is that, like a lot of these places, almost all of the food is pre-packaged long shelf life stuff, so the margins must be absolutely insane!

Funny thing as well, they say "specialists in travel", but a lot of what they offer is terrible for the travelling market. Especially Burger King. Once waited an hour for a Burger at Manchester Airport!

The worst part is they provide little to no healthy options and certainly don't cater for any dietary requirements. The only thing they are useful for resolving immediate low blood sugar or incredible thirst.

I think there is something to be said for bringing your own food to an extent, but I do reject this argument.

Journeys by public transport can take a while and you may not always be in a position to be able to prepare food ahead of time. If we want rail to be competitive, then we need to consider all the factors that contribute to a good or bad journey.

To be fair, the prices in Switzerland are very high in general. £5 for a bottle of coke isn't unheard of.

That Sainsburys is good! In general Piccadilly Station is one of the best for choice in that regard.

Their margins are in the order of 8-10%, so not remotely insane.

 

[DarloRich]

I think there is something to be said for bringing your own food to an extent, but I do reject this argument.

Journeys by public transport can take a while and you may not always be in a position to be able to prepare food ahead of time. If we want rail to be competitive, then we need to consider all the factors that contribute to a good or bad journey.

The point still holds. If you don't like the price on the station walk round the corner to Greggs and get something there. That or take your own.

Strange comments. I'm no great fan of Wetherspoons but I have found them useful as I travel around the country. Food is generally ok, prices are good and service to the table is usually fast.

You get what you pay for at Wetherspoons: Cheap, fast, greasy, fried, brexity. Thier ale is hit and miss quality wise but is cheap.

@Bald Rick is spot on about Wetherspoons mind. They are tacky and run by a clown. Spend you money elsewhere.

 

[TravelDream]

Their margins are in the order of 8-10%, so not remotely insane.

I think many people on here don't realise quite how many fingers there are in the pie when you buy that £4 cup of coffee.
I dislike SSP, but their global margin (8% in 2019) shows they aren't profiteering. 8% is pretty standard for that type of business.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think many people on here don't realise quite how many fingers there are in the pie when you buy that £4 cup of coffee.
I dislike SSP, but their global margin (8% in 2019) shows they aren't profiteering. 8% is pretty standard for that type of business.

I think 10% is fairly average across business generally, which would mean if anything they are a bit below.

Bus companies for one I believe aim somewhat higher. TOCs rather lower.

 

[Robertj21a]

The point still holds. If you don't like the price on the station walk round the corner to Greggs and get something there. That or take your own.


You get what you pay for at Wetherspoons: Cheap, fast, greasy, fried, brexity. Thier ale is hit and miss quality wise but is cheap.

@Bald Rick is spot on about Wetherspoons mind. They are tacky and run by a clown. Spend you money elsewhere.

As I've said earlier, I'm no great fan of Wetherspoons but there does seem to be a great deal of bias, and baloney, on here about them. The steaks I've had have been excellent, cooked as I requested and often better than supposed restaurants that should do better (but often don't).
Cheap is certainly true, fried and greasy isn't true on the meals I have had (albeit often curries anyway) and as for Brexit ..........some people are clearly going to sulk forever.

 

[Grumpy Git]

and as for Brexit ..........some people are clearly going to sulk forever.

OK, so you've poked the hornets nest...............

I cordially invite you to come to my office and sort-out the car-crash that is "Postponed VAT Accounting" (and completing what used to be a very simple VAT return).

Almost 30 years with no drama and now I need to employ a Cambridge Don with a professorship in VAT law. What's more the people in the VAT office don't have a clue either.

The government even make me pay a third-party software provider to make my VAT return! You couldn't make this crap up.

I dread to think how much all the additional administration is costing and I also suspect those of a criminal mind will take advantage of the upheaval?

 

[DarloRich]

As I've said earlier, I'm no great fan of Wetherspoons but there does seem to be a great deal of bias, and baloney, on here about them. The steaks I've had have been excellent, cooked as I requested and often better than supposed restaurants that should do better (but often don't).
Cheap is certainly true, fried and greasy isn't true on the meals I have had (albeit often curries anyway) and as for Brexit ..........some people are clearly going to sulk forever.

You have had better luck than me at Wethers! I don't have a problem with the concept or operation. It is very popular mainly because it is cheap.

The steaks are not excellent. They are cheap, thin and in my experience, badly cooked but they are cheap and that is the point. I am not going to Wethers for a proper stake. I am going for cheap booze and if I get hungry some cheap, quick food of a similar quality no matter where you are, maybe with an extra pint chucked in. Like I said you know what you are getting because you are paying £5 not £35 for it!

I don't like their owner, I think he is an buffoon and I would rather spend my money elsewhere on a decent pint of decent, well kept ale in a decent pub. Clearly you and many others disagree. Such is life.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I think many people on here don't realise quite how many fingers there are in the pie when you buy that £4 cup of coffee.

Be interesting to know. Presumably 67p is VAT for starters. Then there's profit margin, contribution towards central overheads, staff wages (and associated costs), cost of consumables, premises rates / rental.

Anything else? (Revenue share with Network Rail, leccy bill and cost of water supply?)

 

[Robertj21a]

You have had better luck than me at Wethers! I don't have a problem with the concept or operation. It is very popular mainly because it is cheap.

The steaks are not excellent. They are cheap, thin and in my experience, badly cooked but they are cheap and that is the point. I am not going to Wethers for a proper stake. I am going for cheap booze and if I get hungry some cheap, quick food of a similar quality no matter where you are, maybe with an extra pint chucked in. Like I said you know what you are getting because you are paying £5 not £35 for it!

I don't like their owner, I think he is an buffoon and I would rather spend my money elsewhere on a decent pint of decent, well kept ale in a decent pub. Clearly you and many others disagree. Such is life.

The steaks I've had are clearly very different to those you've had, but you're suggesting that your experience is typical - when it clearly isn't. I don't go for the beer but I do appreciate the fact that if I'm on my own I can grab a table and order on the App so that I don't have to move.
You seem to be letting your dislike of the owner colour your judgement.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The steaks I've had are clearly very different to those you've had, but you're suggesting that your experience is typical - when it clearly isn't. I don't go for the beer but I do appreciate the fact that if I'm on my own I can grab a table and order on the App so that I don't have to move.
You seem to be letting your dislike of the owner colour your judgement.

I would say Spoons is likely to be in a similar position as most fairly cheap things, e.g. Hermes couriers. Most people who work there on the poverty wages they pay will do the bare minimum but there will be a few who still take pride in the job and go well over and above.

But with specific regard to steaks if you think 'Spoons ones are high quality (in terms of the actual meat) you've never had a properly good steak.

 

[Robertj21a]

OK, so you've poked the hornets nest...............

I cordially invite you to come to my office and sort-out the car-crash that is "Postponed VAT Accounting" (and completing what used to be a very simple VAT return).

Almost 30 years with no drama and now I need to employ a Cambridge Don with a professorship in VAT law. What's more the people in the VAT office don't have a clue either.

The government even make me pay a third-party software provider to make my VAT return! You couldn't make this crap up.

I dread to think how much all the additional administration is costing and I also suspect those of a criminal mind will take advantage of the upheaval?

I sympathise if you can't now sort out your VAT but, as a 52% voter in favour of Brexit, I have to say that the longer term future is now looking a lot better than it has done for a long time.

I would say Spoons is likely to be in a similar position as most fairly cheap things, e.g. Hermes couriers. Most people who work there on the poverty wages they pay will do the bare minimum but there will be a few who still take pride in the job and go well over and above.

But with specific regard to steaks if you think 'Spoons ones are high quality (in terms of the actual meat) you've never had a properly good steak.

Don't put words in my mouth. I didn't claim they were 'high quality'. I said they were excellent [obviously, for the money] - and that's based on numerous meals in restaurants across the country where some clearly believe they can charge silly prices for a bit of leather.

 

[BurtonM]

Closest 'spoons to public transport has to go to Wetherspoons London Victoria? It's on the concourse, right next to the gateline.

If you open the prompt up to any pub, then Stalybridge Buffet Bar wins, considering it's on a platform.

Stalybridge also used to have a little snack bar in a brick building on the island platform before refurbishment - when the new waiting room was built on P1/3 it incorporated the snack bar.

 

[Chrisgr31]

On a similar note A Piece of Cake was great and the best Sausage Roll around. Now gone.

A Piece of Cake started its life in a well known metropolis on the Uckfield line - Crowborough. It was based in a reasonably large retail unit in the town centre with the bakery in one half and the retail unit in the other. It expanded opening stores elsewhere but after a short while the bakery was no longer big enough. It moved to an industrial unit (in East Grinstead I believe) and the rot set in. It was no longer hand made stuff but stuff made in bulk. I assume expansion lead to increases in costs particularly management etc until it finally went out of business.

I do wonder what else those people that make sandwiches, carry water and drinks etc are carrying with them. When I am on a train I invariably have a back pack with laptop, iPad, magazine, work papers and no space for food and drink. Potentially I’ll be dragging an overnight bag as well. So buy outside the station, you now have a food bag to carry, a bag to drag and a hot drink in your hand. You get to the barrier, have to put it all down in order to get your ticket out, then get through the barrier before it closes. It would be far easier to buy on the train.

I suspect the reason you don’t get cheap options on trains is that the TOCs don’t want it. Cheap comes from small firms with low overheads but to get a TOC contract you need to be a reasonable size that increases overheads. You also need to make the highest bid that reduces profit margin, which ult in same way way franchising of theTOCs did you end up with the lowest possible common denominator.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Don't put words in my mouth. I didn't claim they were 'high quality'. I said they were excellent [obviously, for the money] - and that's based on numerous meals in restaurants across the country where some clearly believe they can charge silly prices for a bit of leather.

They are quite definitely not "excellent". They are adequate. Again, if you think they are then you've never had a truly good steak.

They are good value for money, certainly (better value than many places), but that doesn't make them "excellent".

 

[NorthOxonian]

Closest 'spoons to public transport has to go to Wetherspoons London Victoria? It's on the concourse, right next to the gateline.

If you open the prompt up to any pub, then Stalybridge Buffet Bar wins, considering it's on a platform.

Stalybridge also used to have a little snack bar in a brick building on the island platform before refurbishment - when the new waiting room was built on P1/3 it incorporated the snack bar.

Has to be the York Tap for me - being also right next to a platform. Not that it belongs in this thread mind, the beer is excellent quality and similarly priced to the rest of the city!