Why people don't travel by train...

[AndrewE]

I have just received this from a friend:

We enjoyed our trip north despite a few setbacks such as having to fight for our booked forward seats on the train up to inverness on which two American ladies had knowingly removed the tickets from the back of the seats.

Our journey home was a bit of a disaster . When we got to Waverley we were greeted by someone who told us that our reserved forward facing seats had been double booked as a group was taking up two entire first class carriages. After being made to hang about the platform making it look as if it was our fault they offered us a forward and backward seat in the other 1st class carriage which was next to the kitchen and quite hot and noisy. The at seat service was not brilliant because they were busy with the other two carriages.
When we got to Crewe the train failed to move off again and we waited about half an hour before we were able to move on to stafford. Literally a minute before we got in to Stafford he told us that people going to Birmingham and International had to get off and find another train.
On arrival home, the Trainline had already emailed to say that I was due a full refund on the first class journey from Edinburgh to Birmingham I claimed and that turned up within a week.
We are off to Harrogate this week (by car)

I thought at first that it was reservations issued twice for the same train (which was mentioned on another thread recently... it may well have been that issue.) This couple have senior railcards but will be paying proper public fares, they might have split tickets but they still think they pay a lot for the benefits that first class should bring!

 

[greyman42]

I travelled up to Newcastle on TPE for the football last Saturday. On arriving at Chester-Le-Street, very few passengers got on which is very unusual for matchday. I would guess that TPE's reputation is trashed and supporters are using other means of transport to get to the match.

 

[Parham Wood]

1. No convenient access to a station
2. No convenient service to desired destination
3. Expensive fares for turn up and go, particularly long distance. (I don't want to plan ahead as my life is very flexible)
4. Expensive for more than one person. Car is much cheaper.
5. Extra cost to get to station and from station to destination, plus being exposed to delays in these no train connection services. Car is much cheaper.
6. Lack of flexibility, car wins here to.
7. Reliability of services.

I would like to use train more but it does not work for me.

 

[gordonthemoron]

I still generally use the train, but have increasingly used the car for long trips since covid, due to Avanti and TPE being generally useless

 

[yorkie]

Unfortunately we are a car-centric society and the proportion of the population that use trains (and other public transport) is very low compared to countries that do a much better job than us.

The rail industry too often appears to act in a manner that looks to deter discretionary travel, put people on edge and make people feel like they are an inconvenience to the running of the railway.

That said people who are really fussy about forward facing seats and attentive levels of First Class service are always going to be difficult to satisfy!

 

[uglymonkey]

I'd say :
Expense
No "end to end" experience, still have to walk,taxi or wait in the rain urgent friends to the station if not close enough to walk.
Not enjoying space with your fellow humans
Carting your luggage around with you ( aging population)
Unsure how strike days overtime and are going to effect your journey.
Covid and diseases.
Ironing board seats for long trips
No ease of reliable overpriced "refreshments" from a trolley, if you are lucky.
Worrying about having the correct ticket/train combo

 

[Bletchleyite]

Cost is the main one. It's just unjustifiably expensive unless booked months in advance, something a car doesn't require, and even then it's not that cheap.

 

[Dr Day]

Mostly simply not going where people want to go - for most door to door journeys rail isn’t in scope as an option. Only once it becomes an option, does door to door journey time, comfort and price etc come into it relative to alternatives.

 

[Iskra]

Cost is the main one. It's just unjustifiably expensive unless booked months in advance, something a car doesn't require, and even then it's not that cheap.

While cost is undoubtedly an issue, it isn't a universal one on the UK network. Some flows are priced reasonably to begin with, some seem to have pretty much constant good value advance ticket availability up to the day before. Other routes come with excruciatingly high fares for no apparent reason as far as the average passenger is concerned. However, this lack of consistency is an inconvenience in itself, you never quite seem to know where you stand and if someone does a quick search on a journey planner and the initial price is too high, they will just abandon the idea of travelling by train altogether, even if cheaper fares do actually exist but may take some time/knowledge to find. Train travel should be easy, but it really isn't in the UK. And that's before you start considering things going wrong operationally on the day...

 

[Bletchleyite]

While cost is undoubtedly an issue, it isn't a universal one on the UK network.

It is.

If it costs more than the fuel for the family car plus parking, then it's expensive. The only situation where it likely will be cheaper is travel to one of about 5-6 major cities, and often the car is cheaper even to those places if you have more than one person going.

You can argue all day about using 45p per mile, but nobody accounts car use like that. People think of it more as fixed costs being separate from variable per journey ones.

 

[Robertj21a]

Cost is often ridiculous.

Trains don't go where I want to go.

Delays, cancellations.

Strikes, work to rule etc.

Car is so much easier - and usually much cheaper.

 

[gaillark]

Cost is the main one. It's just unjustifiably expensive unless booked months in advance, something a car doesn't require, and even then it's not that cheap.

Totally agree.
Fares system too complicated since privatisation - historical route, interavailability being removed. Too many specific TOC specific fares. And the rail industry push to book advance fares rather than walk on. Need some flexability. Risk of Penalty fares for minor transgression. Poorer quality new rolling stock especially First Class and on-board quality of service poorer and hit and miss whether the service will be provided. Parking charges too high.
The railway is now not appealing to me especially if two or more travel. Much easier and more comfortable in my car than the train. Train travel for me has reduced by 80 percent and won't be coming back.

 

[Iskra]

It is.

If it costs more than the fuel for the family car plus parking, then it's expensive. The only situation where it likely will be cheaper is travel to one of about 5-6 major cities, and often the car is cheaper even to those places if you have more than one person going.

You can argue all day about using 45p per mile, but nobody accounts car use like that. People think of it more as fixed costs being separate from variable per journey ones.

Last night I got a train from Meadowhall to Sheffield for roughly £2.70 (it was a TP only fare). This is significantly quicker than the similarly priced tram that does the same journey. I parked my car for free at the station. The price of parking alone in Sheffield would be £12+ with a walk in the rain to be at the cheaper end of the scale.

I then got an off peak return from Sheffield to Doncaster, I travelled on the XC HST outwards (so an Intercity journey) and then got a Northern stopper back as better quality trains had stopped running by this point, but my ticket would have allowed me on an Intercity style train- this cost £7.XX return. Probably similar to the fuel cost of driving but the train is probably quicker generally, more relaxing and it saves the cost of parking in Doncaster plus the stress of driving in two cities and on a motorway at night when I was tired.

I think that was very good value, considering I did no prior planning at all and bought as a walk-up on the day. I maintain my assertion that train travel in the UK can be good value, but it is inconsistently priced.

 

[brad465]

1. No convenient access to a station
2. No convenient service to desired destination
3. Expensive fares for turn up and go, particularly long distance. (I don't want to plan ahead as my life is very flexible)
4. Expensive for more than one person. Car is much cheaper.
5. Extra cost to get to station and from station to destination, plus being exposed to delays in these no train connection services. Car is much cheaper.
6. Lack of flexibility, car wins here to.
7. Reliability of services.

I would like to use train more but it does not work for me.

This pretty much sums it up I think.

However I would add that while the car can be cheaper for regular users outside of well-connected cities, having a car has the extra costs of ownership and maintenance, so if you don't travel terribly often and live in a town connected by rail, buses, cycling and occasional car share where all else isn't possible (i.e. how I get by usually as despite having a licence I'm not keen on driving), it is possible to manage without a car.

 

[JD2168]

Some things I can think of are:
Continuous bouts of Industrial Action putting people off.
Cancellations of journeys particularly popular ones, take the amount of times the Sheffield to Scarborough is terminated at Hull, particularly on 9:57 & 10:57am journeys which are used by day trippers along with the TPE service to Cleethorpes.
Cost of ticket being expensive.
Certain routes particularly LNER being compulsory booking only, putting day trippers or last minute passengers off the journey.
Trains that are too short for a busy journey, for example Cross Country & EMR services to Skegness making for an unhappy experience.

 

[gg1]

For the majority of journeys I make the car is cheaper.
For almost all journeys the car is faster.
For every journey the car is more comfortable and I'm not sharing it with the types of people highlighted in the current thread on this forum entitled 'antisocial behaviour in trains'

 

[pokemonsuper9]

My family very rarely travel by train, I always travel by train (Even when they are going to the same place by car).

Their main reason not to use the train is cost and I understand why.

 

[yorksrob]

Another one for cost. Also unreliability over the last couple of years.

 

[greyman42]

Certain routes particularly LNER being compulsory booking only, putting day trippers or last minute passengers off the journey.

LNER have no compulsory booking rules on any trains.

 

[bramling]

LNER have no compulsory booking rules on any trains.

They still seem to be putting that out, even if it’s not enforced.

Last week when we travelled from Edinburgh to Newcastle the TM made an announcement that reservations were compulsory and people must sit in their reserved seat. We didn’t have reservations and nothing was said, though it was a very lightly loaded service near the end of the day.

 

[greyman42]

They still seem to be putting that out, even if it’s not enforced.

Last week when we travelled from Edinburgh to Newcastle the TM made an announcement that reservations were compulsory and people must sit in their reserved seat. We didn’t have reservations and nothing was said, though it was a very lightly loaded service near the end of the day.

I have heard announcements that passengers with reservations must sit in their reserved seats, but never that reservations are compulsory with LNER.

 

[bramling]

I have heard announcements that passengers with reservations must sit in their reserved seats, but never that reservations are compulsory with LNER.

It was on the CIS at Waverley.

 

[4SubAsociation]

Ok. Similar reasons to what paham wood stated. 1,2, 4 and 5 are not issues for me personally.

3. Expensive fares for turn up and go, particularly long distance - this is the main issue for me (even booking in advance). Every time i have looked into going somewhere by rail it is cheaper by car on in the case of Glasgow to fly including the parking. One exception was Ashford to Brighton where it worked out break even (including parking) - but this leads to point 7.

6. Lack of flexibility, car wins here to.

7. Reliability of services - the 1st time i had to use the diesel hauled marsh link service. On the way to brighton was not bad (change at Eastbourne). But on the way back the train broke down (apperently run out of fuel from what i under stand), i was refunded but a 1hr wait with no onward journey from Rye is no fun.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It was on the CIS at Waverley.

That'll likely be an error, they normally change it on the CIS to say recommended.

The timetable does say it but it's a fudge to prevent "overselling" online and so they can block sales until they want to release a given train.

 

[Joey Beauchamp]

I understand the lack of flexibility as I live somewhere where the main flow is North South and heading East or West by train is awkward and often via London.

However, train travel can be more flexible as you don't have to return to where you parked your car, or for that matter, park anything in the first place!

 

[Kite159]

Certain routes which has a higher than normal level of anti-social behaviour, especially when drinking is involved (i.e group of lads heading to the races preloading on cheap mass-produced 'lager' trying to see who can shout the loudest)

 

[Sad Sprinter]

make people feel like they are an inconvenience to the running of the railway.

That's certainly my impression of how the railway runs itself nowadays

 

[rg177]

A great example this evening of why people get nervous/put off when travelling by train...

I'm on the 1942 TPE from Leeds to Newcastle. I clocked on JourneyCheck that it was down as "three carriages between York and Newcastle" which meant a dreaded set swap at York.

Absolutely no announcements whatsoever. Nobody said a word. I followed along on OpenTrainTimes and saw we were set to do a cross-platform change from 11 to 10. I ended up by the same door as the guy on the trolley and asked if he knew what was happening. Cue panic on his face and "I'll get the guard to say something". Alas, the guard did not.

I headed over to the awaiting 185 and told the guard that he had a train on 11 full of oblivious passengers. Cue a 15 minute delay while they were retrieved, though we ended up so rammed that a few were left behind.

To the guard's credit - he's currently stood in the saloon watching down the carriage and chatting to passengers rather than hiding away. I certainly don't envy him and there's nothing more he could possibly do - as he singlehandedly got everyone off the 802 after I told him what was up.

But, it doesn't give you much confidence. Clearly a massive breakdown in communication.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

A great example this evening of why people get nervous/put off when travelling by train...

I'm on the 1942 TPE from Leeds to Newcastle. I clocked on JourneyCheck that it was down as "three carriages between York and Newcastle" which meant a dreaded set swap at York.

Absolutely no announcements whatsoever. Nobody said a word. I followed along on OpenTrainTimes and saw we were set to do a cross-platform change from 11 to 10. I ended up by the same door as the guy on the trolley and asked if he knew what was happening. Cue panic on his face and "I'll get the guard to say something". Alas, the guard did not.

I headed over to the awaiting 185 and told the guard that he had a train on 11 full of oblivious passengers. Cue a 15 minute delay while they were retrieved, though we ended up so rammed that a few were left behind.

To the guard's credit - he's currently stood in the saloon watching down the carriage and chatting to passengers rather than hiding away. I certainly don't envy him and there's nothing more he could possibly do - as he singlehandedly got everyone off the 802 after I told him what was up.

But, it doesn't give you much confidence. Clearly a massive breakdown in communication.

At least it gives those with knowledge the info on getting a better seat.
Still I find it disappointing the 802 -> 185 downgrade even had to be made (especially when there's now no longer the OLE's power behind the train).
Did everyone make it back on or were any left behind?

 

[deltic]

If memory serves surveys suggest almost half the population use the train at least once a year and it's reliability rather than cost that is the biggest deterrence to more use of the network.