• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Why the Portishead Delay?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Railwaysceptic

Established Member
Joined
6 Nov 2017
Messages
1,426
Can we please not have a Beeching debate here.
A handful of people - and it's always the same handful - will mention Dr. Beeching in any discussion. They don't want a debate however: they just want to vilify him . . . and jeer at anyone who refuses to do likewise.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

kentrailman

Member
Joined
5 Nov 2019
Messages
84
Location
Kent
Link to North Somerset times article regarding further delays to portishead line opening being discussed in house of commons

From the above article :
Mr Stephenson told the House of Commons: "The section to be reinstated has significantly overgrown since the railway stopped running to Portishead in 1964 and would require some clearance work.

"The scheme also involves proposals for clearing vegetation along the existing freight line through the Avon gorge woodlands special area of conservation, which is home to a number of rare species of plants including the Bristol whitebeam."




Reason for further delay to opening of portishead line appears to be so that the trees and bushes that have grown over the tracks over the last few years can be assessed to see if any are protected species !!!!!!!!!!!!

... And if they are ? Then what ?!!!
 
Last edited:

Brush 4

Member
Joined
25 Nov 2018
Messages
513
Good to see Liam Fox talking sense, he sounds like some of us! It is a thin line between frustration and farce. I don't suppose there is any way that Project Speed can be imposed on a project that is already under way, probably not. A decision may be made beofre April 19 which is promising. If they can't start before the nesting season, that will be even more delay.
 

Sean Emmett

Member
Joined
9 Mar 2015
Messages
498
As far as I am aware, the whitebeam is only found in the Avon Gorge, already re-opened for freight services.

If it has spread it's doing well!

Suspect all they'll find is buddleja. Just hope there's no Japanese knotweed...
 

zwk500

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Jan 2020
Messages
13,608
Location
Bristol
Suspect all they'll find is buddleja. Just hope there's no Japanese knotweed...
Probably true enough, but better to check first than to just rock up with ballast and sleepers only to find the world's most aggressive plant right where you don't want it 3 weeks later. I have a good idea how this board would react if a line was closed less than 6 weeks after opening because they rushed through the process and missed a clanger.
Good to see Liam Fox talking sense, he sounds like some of us! It is a thin line between frustration and farce.
The farce would be to just get on with it only to find yourself in the middle of the problem with no way out.
 

Kingham West

Member
Joined
17 Oct 2017
Messages
112
We live in a world of expensive lawyers , after the Oxford -Bicester shambles, every option must be covered , that involved the fact that sedge grasses , 500m from railway could have been affected by Notrous Oxide Particles .
That may seem crazy , but if a client pays you £500 hr, you will think of something .
The cost and delay would be 2yrs and £5 m as a guide .
 

MarkRedon

Member
Joined
16 Sep 2015
Messages
292
i have just complained, not very gently, on the gov.uk website about this further delay to a part of the Phase 1 proposal. In particular - no proper explanation has been provided for a six-month further delay. Is it unreasonable for me to feel miffed, cross, angry...?
 

HSTEd

Veteran Member
Joined
14 Jul 2011
Messages
16,977
Its also rather a strawman to assume that in 10 years time we will still be operating what are currently 30 year old DMUs.
No, we will be operating 40 year old DMUs.
 

Annetts key

Established Member
Joined
13 Feb 2021
Messages
2,660
Location
West is best
Portishead line reopening delayed to examine overgrowth on line

Reason for further delay to opening of portishead line appears to be so that the trees and bushes that have grown over the tracks over the last few years can be assessed to see if any are protected species !!!!!!!!!!!!

... And if they are ? Then what ?!!!
That article talks about the last trains in the 1960s, so how did the specials after this date get along the line, fly over it?

From Wikipedia:
Passenger services were discontinued in 1964 as part of the Reshaping of British Railways report. Freight was discontinued in 1981 but the railway was not dismantled. In 1985 a series of steam excursions ran along the line as part of the "GW150" celebrations.
(link).

And we think BR sent a ‘light’ engine down beyond the area where the current ‘Portbury’ junction is occasionally after 1987 at least a couple of times.
 

Brush 4

Member
Joined
25 Nov 2018
Messages
513
Portishead rail delays | North Somerset Times
Amid fears it will be opposed by environmentalists. If that amount of caution is applied to all infrastructure projects, not just rail, nothing will get done.
Is there any way that Project Speed can be imposed on a project that started before PS was devised? The bureaucratic lethargy really has to be challenged.
 
Last edited:

Envoy

Established Member
Joined
29 Aug 2014
Messages
2,508
Portishead rail delays | North Somerset Times
Amid fears it will be opposed by environmentalists. If that amount of caution is applied to all infrastructure projects, not just rail, nothing will get done.
Is there any way that Project Speed can be imposed on a project that started before PS was devised? The bureaucratic lethargy really has to be challenged.
Absolutely bonkers that they just can’t get on and get this line open. I have just driven through the area and the road traffic is incredible. At least the Welsh Government are cracking on with the South East Wales Metro. Some of the new Swiss built FLIRT trains have already arrived at Canton (Cardiff) and the depot at Taffs Well for the tram-trains is work in progress along with electrifying the valleys. How can a few self seeded trees be an excuse not to crack on with the Portishead line?
 

pdeaves

Established Member
Joined
14 Sep 2014
Messages
5,631
Location
Gateway to the South West
How can a few self seeded trees be an excuse not to crack on with the Portishead line?
A few self seeded trees? Or a few people who want to whinge about the railway but still drive cars everywhere? Without a closer look at 'behind the scenes', I suspect more the latter than the former!
 

zwk500

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Jan 2020
Messages
13,608
Location
Bristol
Portishead rail delays | North Somerset Times
Amid fears it will be opposed by environmentalists. If that amount of caution is applied to all infrastructure projects, not just rail, nothing will get done.
Is there any way that Project Speed can be imposed on a project that started before PS was devised? The bureaucratic lethargy really has to be challenged.
What do you mean by the bit in bold? Project SPEED doesn't let you break the law. The law says major projects must demonstrate they have considered their impact on the environment and how that impact will be managed.

Have a look at the planning application, which gives a bit more insight into what is required and how serious the objections are: https://infrastructure.planninginsp...est/portishead-branch-line-metrowest-phase-1/
 

Bald Rick

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Sep 2010
Messages
29,341
Is there any way that Project Speed can be imposed on a project that started before PS was devised? The bureaucratic lethargy really has to be challenged.

project SPEED Isn’t something that is imposed. But any project can use its principles at any time. As many have done.

however, it doesn’t allow you to break the law.
 

Brush 4

Member
Joined
25 Nov 2018
Messages
513
Even better...
I guess Okehampton was lucky in that there were no environmental complaints, despite heavy tree felling at some locations.
 

zwk500

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Jan 2020
Messages
13,608
Location
Bristol
Even better...
I guess Okehampton was lucky in that there were no environmental complaints, despite heavy tree felling at some locations.
Out of interest, what do you think project SPEED is?
Okehampton was an active line, its got a different set of laws that apply. If you think that should change, you need to talk to your MP
 

Annetts key

Established Member
Joined
13 Feb 2021
Messages
2,660
Location
West is best
Okehampton was an active line, its got a different set of laws that apply.
Now here’s a question.
Was the line, as it existed in 1985 and after, ever officially closed?

If no, how is an active line defined?

Yes I know the last bit in the town of Portishead and the station was lost. But the rest was intact.

When the line to Portbury docks was built, a point was provided at the new junction where the new freight line connected to the existing line. But it was removed (I think before freight trains started running to the docks). The parts for it are still there, but are in the cess.

I say 1985, as there were definitely specials that ran that year. But there may have been trains that ran after 1985, as the line was still available for use at least until 1991.

So if Network Rail reinstalled the point, and say an inspection vehicle ran along the Portishead branch, where would that leave it legally?
 

zwk500

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Jan 2020
Messages
13,608
Location
Bristol
Now here’s a question.
Was the line, as it existed in 1985 and after, ever officially closed?

If no, how is an active line defined?

So if Network Rail reinstalled the point, and say an inspection vehicle ran along the Portishead branch, where would that leave it legally?
I'm afraid I don't have the answers to any of those questions, although I'd be fascinated to hear them if anybody else does!
 

Yindee8191

Member
Joined
16 Mar 2019
Messages
165
Now here’s a question.
Was the line, as it existed in 1985 and after, ever officially closed?

If no, how is an active line defined?

Yes I know the last bit in the town of Portishead and the station was lost. But the rest was intact.

When the line to Portbury docks was built, a point was provided at the new junction where the new freight line connected to the existing line. But it was removed (I think before freight trains started running to the docks). The parts for it are still there, but are in the cess.

I say 1985, as there were definitely specials that ran that year. But there may have been trains that ran after 1985, as the line was still available for use at least until 1991.

So if Network Rail reinstalled the point, and say an inspection vehicle ran along the Portishead branch, where would that leave it legally?
The line has been cut in at least two places between Portbury and Portishead - one where an access road for the port’s car storage area crosses, and the other for the new power lines that are being installed in the area. Not sure where that leaves things from an official standpoint.
 

William3000

Member
Joined
24 May 2011
Messages
204
Location
Cambridgeshire
Agree entirely, but electric cars is an argument I've heard as to why EWR shouldn't be built in South Cambridgeshire.
That’s staggering. Electric cars aren’t going to link all the mainlines heading north/south out of London. The great thing about EW rail is the number of new connections it creates.
 

507020

Established Member
Joined
23 May 2021
Messages
1,869
Location
Southport
What do you mean by the bit in bold? Project SPEED doesn't let you break the law. The law says major projects must demonstrate they have considered their impact on the environment and how that impact will be managed.
project SPEED Isn’t something that is imposed. But any project can use its principles at any time. As many have done however, it doesn’t allow you to break the law.
If there are any laws which serve no other purpose than to prevent railways from reopening and allow cars to continue damaging the environment and ruin the lives of the residents of Portishead, Pill and Ashton Gate (where there should also be a station) then they simply need to be repealed immediately. That is Project SPEED.
Even better...
I guess Okehampton was lucky in that there were no environmental complaints, despite heavy tree felling at some locations.
The line to Okehampton which I went on on the opening day still has self seeded trees under 50 years old along it’s length. While it is obvious that tree felling has taken place at several locations, I suspect these may have actually been infringing on the loading gauge more than anything else.
Now here’s a question.
Was the line, as it existed in 1985 and after, ever officially closed?

If no, how is an active line defined?

Yes I know the last bit in the town of Portishead and the station was lost. But the rest was intact.

When the line to Portbury docks was built, a point was provided at the new junction where the new freight line connected to the existing line. But it was removed (I think before freight trains started running to the docks). The parts for it are still there, but are in the cess.

I say 1985, as there were definitely specials that ran that year. But there may have been trains that ran after 1985, as the line was still available for use at least until 1991.

So if Network Rail reinstalled the point, and say an inspection vehicle ran along the Portishead branch, where would that leave it legally?
Having passed Parson Street Junction on my way to Okehampton, it is obvious that from there as far as the 2002 Pill junction is an operational (goods only) railway and any necessary redoubling work on that section would be permitted development. All that needs to be built is 3 miles of single track on which the last train ran presumably at some point in the 1980s if not a few years later and a couple of basic stations. Surely this can be accomplished at some point this century if the needless bureaucracy is done away with. Most people in the West Country and some elsewhere who are particularly interested are aware that the road traffic congestion on the Portbury Hundred, the sole road (and therefore the sole route of any mode) is absolutely extraordinary and that all of these drivers are absolutely desperate for alternatives, the most obvious of these being a GWR branch line.
That’s staggering. Electric cars aren’t going to link all the mainlines heading north/south out of London. The great thing about EW rail is the number of new connections it creates.
In addition to the EWR line to Oxford (and thence Reading, Guildford, Redhill, Tonbridge and Ashford International thus linking ALL main lines out of London) Cambridgeshire also requires a heavy rail line from Huntingdon to Cambridge (if not Kettering) as opposed to the lethal guided busway and for the Great Northern and Great Eastern Joint Railway to provide a link from St Ives to March and Spalding largely as a freight bypass of virtually the entire length of the ECML as far as Doncaster, a perfect place for it to end because northbound traffic is of course split between Leeds and Edinburgh.
 

The exile

Established Member
Joined
31 Mar 2010
Messages
2,876
Location
Somerset
The line to Okehampton which I went on on the opening day still has self seeded trees under 50 years old along it’s length. While it is obvious that tree felling has taken place at several locations, I suspect these may have actually been infringing on the loading gauge more than anything else.

Having passed Parson Street Junction on my way to Okehampton, it is obvious that from there as far as the 2002 Pill junction is an operational (goods only) railway and any necessary redoubling work on that section would be permitted development.
Before anyone thinks differently, I'm very much in favour of Portishead reopening (almost in the jfdi camp!). However, as far as I know there are no protected plant species that are unique to any location along the Okehampton branch - unlike the Avon Gorge, where there are apparently several. I suspect the issue in terms of these may not be so much the existing trackbed - which should have been kept reasonably clear - nor even any bits of former trackbed required for doubling, but land which might need to be cleared for access for heavy plant. There would an awful lot of egg on various faces if it turned out that half of the world's examples of Sorbus bristoliensis had been wiped out to create a turning circle needed for 3 weeks when research beforehand could have led to careful uprooting and replanting.
 

Mag_seven

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
1 Sep 2014
Messages
10,104
Location
here to eternity
NR (who I assume are undertaking the works) should have produced an Environmental Impact Assessment. Are we saying that this has not been done?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top