Why were 58s forgotten?

[alexl92]

In the last 20 years or so we’ve seen examples of class 37, 47, 56 and 60 refurbished to a high spec or converted to new classes. This has probably been asked before but why have no freight operators taken any interest in doing similar with Class 58s? I know now most of them are total write-offs but was it considered before the Super 60 project for example? Or were 56s and 60s just better all round machines?

 

[Kneedown]

In the last 20 years or so we’ve seen examples of class 37, 47, 56 and 60 refurbished to a high spec or converted to new classes. This has probably been asked before but why have no freight operators taken any interest in doing similar with Class 58s? I know now most of them are total write-offs but was it considered before the Super 60 project for example? Or were 56s and 60s just better all

Perhaps it would have been a more awkward job to fit new equipment into the limited space of a 58s innards?
That said, having previously driven all three, 56s and 60s were far superior. Much more sure footed.

 

[Mugby]

I remember when the 58s were new, one was sent from Toton up to Westhouses for trial on MGR working. It couldn't even lift a train of empties up the branch to Sutton and Teversal collieries. It just kept slipping endlessly.

 

[D365]

... but was it considered before the Super 60 project for example?

'Super 60' was a heavy refurbishment/overhaul more akin to the "Heavy General Refurbishment" of the 1980s. Not a total re-engineering, but it helps that DBC still owns the majority of Class 60s.

 

[Strathclyder]

I suspect it was a combo of a few things: a lack of space in the 58s innards to fit new equipment and the fact that they suffered chronic wheelslip issues, especially in comparison with the other heavy freight Type 5s (56 and 60), which both were a lot more sure-footed (why the SEPEX wheelslip control system 58050 had fitted wasn't perpetuated across the entire class I'm not sure). The overall numbers - 50 58s compared to 135 56s* and 100 60s - likely factored in with this.

Even with all their problems/drawbacks in mind, I'm glad a few examples have escaped the cutter's torch and have been secured for preservation. Much like the less than successful members of the pilot scheme in that sense (I still wish a 29 had been saved though, but that's neither here or there...)

*: I'm aware that not all of them made it to privatisation, but the general point about their overall numbers still stands.

 

[Helvellyn]

In one sense the modular construction of a Class 58 might have helped if they wanted to do a rebuild. But relies on EWS/DB offering enough up for sale to refurbish/rebuild. Plus the wheelslip issues, while solveable, would have been an added cost.

 

[43096]

In one sense the modular construction of a Class 58 might have helped if they wanted to do a rebuild. But relies on EWS/DB offering enough up for sale to refurbish/rebuild. Plus the wheelslip issues, while solveable, would have been an added cost.

Part of the problem was the way the freight operators were privatised. Rather than all the stock being handed over to EWS and Freightliner, the more modern stock (Classes 56/58/60/90/92) should have been placed with the ROSCOs and leased out. There would then have been an incentive for the ROSCOs to improve their fleets (e.g. fixing the Class 58 wheelslip issues) to keep/get them on lease.

 

[Bevan Price]

In retrospect, it is a pity that Class 58 had not been built with E.T.H. fittings. Despite their "official" speed limit, they were capable of comfortably exceeding 90 mph with heavier loads than Class 47s, and would now probably have been ideal locos for charter operators, (e.g. West Coast Rail)

 

[delt1c]

The 56's were

In retrospect, it is a pity that Class 58 had not been built with E.T.H. fittings. Despite their "official" speed limit, they were capable of comfortably exceeding 90 mph with heavier loads than Class 47s, and would now probably have been ideal locos for charter operators, (e.g. West Coast Rail)

there had been thought about fitting the 56’s with ETH and increased maximum speed for cross country which was never carried through so why the need for ETH fitting to 58’s

 

[37166]

Part of the problem was the way the freight operators were privatised. Rather than all the stock being handed over to EWS and Freightliner, the more modern stock (Classes 56/58/60/90/92) should have been placed with the ROSCOs and leased out. There would then have been an incentive for the ROSCOs to improve their fleets (e.g. fixing the Class 58 wheelslip issues) to keep/get them on lease.

That would have been so much more sensible, those locos were sold at a pittance.

 

[Ayrshire Roy]

The majority of the 58s are still abroad rusting in sidings sadly so they are not easily available.

 

[GS250]

I guess in the end, they weren't actually a great design. It takes something to be last in but first out.

 

[DerekC]

Now here's a proper 58XXX! Built from 1875 onward and the last one scrapped in 1964. Sadly none in preservation.

Attribution: By Ben Brooksbank, CC BY-SA 2.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=18418948

 

[XAM2175]

I quite like them, but perhaps in part because they remind me a bit of some of my favourites as a younger lad:

(FreightCorp 82 class, via rusted2therails)

 

[Strathclyder]

I recall someone in another 58-themed thread asking if there were any clips out there of them 'under load', as most had them as being rather quiet under load, especially compared to the preceding 56s. Lo and behold, I've had a few, 'waiting in the wings' so to speak, for another 58-themed thread to appear. Fan noise is prevelent in most of these, but the one of 58050 departing Acton is possibly the best 58 clip I've ever come across for raw engine noise alone.

(attached videos copyright of their respective owners)

I quite like them, but perhaps in part because they remind me a bit of some of my favourites as a younger lad:

(FreightCorp 82 class, via rusted2therails)

The great irony there being that 58 82s were built originally.

(54 remain in service; 3 were written off in a major derailment in 1997 & one had a severe thermal incident in 2014 which saw it stored and then eventually cut up)

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I quite like them, but perhaps in part because they remind me a bit of some of my favourites as a younger lad:

(FreightCorp 82 class, via rusted2therails)

I can definitely see the resemblance... that looks like a 58 that went through a rebellious streak and decided to get a few facial piercings!

 

[ac6000cw]

I suspect it was a combo of a few things: a lack of space in the 58s innards to fit new equipment and the fact that they suffered chronic wheelslip issues, especially in comparison with the other heavy freight Type 5s (56 and 60), which both were a lot more sure-footed (why the SEPEX wheelslip control system 58050 had fitted wasn't perpetuated across the entire class I'm not sure). The overall numbers - 50 58s compared to 135 56s* and 100 60s - likely factored in with this.

Maybe because it wasn't as big a performance improvement as they hoped versus the cost of retro-fitting it to the others?

The other thing that happened of course was the arrival of the class 59s in the UK, which somewhat raised the bar in terms of freight loco haulage capabilities...

 

[Strathclyder]

Maybe because it wasn't as big a performance improvement as they hoped versus the cost of retro-fitting it to the others?

That's what I had in mind to be honest, but I didn't want to outright assert that it was the case in case it turned out to be completely wrong. The 58s' bogie design no doubt had it's own bearing on the system not being as effective as had been hoped though, as the same basic system was fitted to the 60 and it's seemed to work rather well there.

The other thing that happened of course was the arrival of the class 59s in the UK, which somewhat raised the bar in terms of freight loco haulage capabilities...

That too. There was only one likely outcome after privitisation when it came to placing orders for a brand-new freight loco design, and that came in the form of a modified/modernized iteration of the 59, which was of course the 66.