Why would LNER seat allocations not be in operation ?

[Willie Bee]

My daughter is currently on an LNER train to London with her two young children, from Newcastle

She made the booking and selected the seats she wanted .. obviously all together and next to a table.

She gets on the train and is informed that no reservations are in effect, so has to struggle to find any available space. Luckily the two kids get seats, but she has to stand.

A bit of good luck follows, after 15 minute travel time, at the first stop a chap gets off, so she grabs a seat, not too far from the kids.

It would be very annoying booking a seat, then having to stand for 15 minutes, then only find a seat close by

 

[androdas]

There was a person hit by a train near Morpeth this morning and the railway was closed north of Newcastle. There has been a lot of disruption and the service might not be formed of the stock it was supposed to be, when that happens reservations are usually suspended as they try to recover the service.

 

[DanNCL]

LNER have a so called seat guarantee where you can claim compensation if you reserved a seat and had to stand - 100% of the fare for singles, 50% of the fare for returns. However you can’t claim both that and delay repay, so if the train was also delayed you’ll want to work out which of the two schemes would pay out the most money and put in your application accordingly.

Our Seat Guarantee scheme

If a seat is reserved then it is not available. Our staff will help to find you alternative seating. If they cannot then we will compensate you.

www.lner.co.uk

 

[Willie Bee]

There was a person hit by a train near Morpeth this morning and the railway was closed north of Newcastle. There has been a lot of disruption and the service might not be formed of the stock it was supposed to be, when that happens reservations are usually suspended as they try to recover the service.

Oh, very sad.

The lack of seats pales into insignificance with this tragic news

LNER have a so called seat guarantee where you can claim compensation if you reserved a seat and had to stand - 100% of the fare for singles, 50% of the fare for returns. However you can’t claim both that and delay repay, so if the train was also delayed you’ll want to work out which of the two schemes would pay out the most money and put in your application accordingly.

Our Seat Guarantee scheme

If a seat is reserved then it is not available. Our staff will help to find you alternative seating. If they cannot then we will compensate you.

www.lner.co.uk

In the end, the train arrived only about 13 mins late but after the tragic incident this is very very minor

 

[Stampy]

The last 5 times I've travelled on LNER - the Seat Reservation system has ALWAYS been suspended and it's been a "scrum" for seats at stations....

Even when there's been NO distuptions OR diversions.

 

[TreacleMiller]

So, there can be instances when the trains system just does not load the reservations, which I've seen a handful of times when setting up.

During disruption like today set swaps (different layout of train) would obviously make seating reservations impossible and with some cancellations and ticket acceptance in place it does end up being a bit of a free for all and first come first serve.

Euqally the amount of times a train feels full when in fact people havent walked along the trains length is ridiculous.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

So, there can be instances when the trains system just does not load the reservations, which I've seen a handful of times when setting up.

Occasionally I've had the displays not say my seat was reserved but whenever I've told someone I've had the seats reserved they move out of it (Avanti).
If the system doesn't load it the ticket should still be considered proof because it its.

 

[Willie Bee]

The last 5 times I've travelled on LNER - the Seat Reservation system has ALWAYS been suspended and it's been a "scrum" for seats at stations....

Even when there's been NO distuptions OR diversions.

My wife and I travelled to London late last year and to Edinburgh a couple of weeks ago .. both times on LNER from Newcastle and every journey has been 100% .. maybe a minute or two late or even early .. don't remember, but arrived at about the time expected.

So as far as we are concerned LNER have been brilliant.

 

[emoaconr]

Occasionally I've had the displays not say my seat was reserved but whenever I've told someone I've had the seats reserved they move out of it (Avanti).
If the system doesn't load it the ticket should still be considered proof because it its.

I disagree, a paper ticket as proof by a passenger does not pass mustard - unlike airlines which are entirely reserved, rail travel does not require a reservation, and neither does a host direct you to your seats. If no tokens/displays are in operation, there are no reservations. I refuse to move in such situations.

 

[Hadders]

Occasionally I've had the displays not say my seat was reserved but whenever I've told someone I've had the seats reserved they move out of it (Avanti).
If the system doesn't load it the ticket should still be considered proof because it its.

The issue is reservations aren't compulsory so a passenger is able to purchase a ticket to travel right up until departure without a reservation (quite rightly, in my opinion). You can't blame these passengers for taking up a seat showing 'available'. My view is that if reservatiuons aren't displayed then they are cancelled and it's a free for all, but when thsi applies clear announcements should be made after every station call.

I made a claim under LNER's seat guarantee scheme earlier this year when my reservation wasn't displayed and I had to stand for over an hour on a very busy train on a Sunday afternnon. LNER paid out in full, no quibble.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

The issue is reservations aren't compulsory so a passenger is able to purchase a ticket to travel right up until departure without a reservation (quite rightly, in my opinion). You can't blame these passengers for taking up a seat showing 'available'

Yes, I agree with that bit, I've been on both sides, booking my seat the moment it became available (it was Avanti during the bad times so it was only like a month in advance), and buying a train literally at Wigan North Western with 20 minutes until it shows up.

My view is that if reservatiuons aren't displayed then they are cancelled and it's a free for all, but when thsi applies clear announcements should be made after every station call.

I think the opposite, if a train is cancelled advanced tickets for it don't become worthless, why should reservations be worthless if a display fails?

I made a claim under LNER's seat guarantee scheme earlier this year when my reservation wasn't displayed and I had to stand for over an hour on a very busy train on a Sunday afternnon. LNER paid out in full, no quibble.

I've heard good things about LNER, this is another nice thing to add to the list, unfortunately I'm on the wrong coast to get this feature.

 

[Hadders]

I think the opposite, if a train is cancelled advanced tickets for it don't become worthless, why should reservations be worthless if a display fails?

I purchase a ticket without a reservation and sit in a seat marked as 'available'. Along you come with your reservation coupon and turf me out, so I sit in another seat showing 'available'. Along comes another passenger with a reservation coupon and turfs me out. This sort of musical chairs after every station call means you just cannot realistically enforce reservations when they aren't displayed.

There is no ideal solution but cancelling reservations is the least worst option in my view.

 

[yorkie]

Occasionally I've had the displays not say my seat was reserved but whenever I've told someone I've had the seats reserved they move out of it (Avanti).
If the system doesn't load it the ticket should still be considered proof because it its.

You have no right to do this; you need to find an alternative seat. If absolutely no alternative seats are available, speak to staff if you can.

If a seat does not show as reserved then anyone can sit there.

I think the opposite, if a train is cancelled advanced tickets for it don't become worthless, why should reservations be worthless if a display fails?

A seat is not guaranteed and we do not operate a compulsory reservation system on National Rail services; it's not right that anyone can chuck someone out of an unreserved/available seat (as displayed).

The last 5 times I've travelled on LNER - the Seat Reservation system has ALWAYS been suspended and it's been a "scrum" for seats at stations....

Even when there's been NO distuptions OR diversions.

I travel with LNER often and have only had a couple of instances lately, out of dozens of journeys. One was two trainloads into one, and the other was a set swap. In the first instance there was confusion due to a botched staff handover at York, but in the other instance it was clearly communicated. It's rare in my experience.

 

[DanNCL]

In the end, the train arrived only about 13 mins late but after the tragic incident this is very very minor

Even if your daughter only had to stand for a small part of the journey she'll still be entitled to claim. The tragic circumstances behind todays disruption don't impact her eligability for compensation under the Seat Guarantee scheme.

There was a person hit by a train near Morpeth this morning and the railway was closed north of Newcastle. There has been a lot of disruption and the service might not be formed of the stock it was supposed to be, when that happens reservations are usually suspended as they try to recover the service.

Unless there's engineering works all LNER services through Newcastle Monday-Saturday are booked to use 9 car Azumas, a set swap shouldn't have caused this as the replacement set would have the same seating layout as the booked set. If there were engineering works then this wouldn't have been the case as 10 car sets come into the equation.

The last 5 times I've travelled on LNER - the Seat Reservation system has ALWAYS been suspended and it's been a "scrum" for seats at stations....

Even when there's been NO distuptions OR diversions.

So, there can be instances when the trains system just does not load the reservations, which I've seen a handful of times when setting up.

The Hitachi reservation system on the Azumas is usually quite reliable. The Sensa system on the Mark 4 sets less so!

 

[cuccir]

The last 5 times I've travelled on LNER - the Seat Reservation system has ALWAYS been suspended and it's been a "scrum" for seats at stations....

Even when there's been NO distuptions OR diversions.

If this is true you've had remarkably bad luck. I commute and use LNER 4 days a week and would say I see failed reservations once a month max

 

[800001]

Examples like today are because at Edinburgh this morning there was nearly 2000 people waiting for trains when the line reopened following a fatality at Cramlington.

They introduce a queueing system at Waverley, and until such time as the queue is gone, reservations on the trains departing Edinburgh are suspended.

I purchase a ticket without a reservation and sit in a seat marked as 'available'. Along you come with your reservation coupon and turf me out, so I sit in another seat showing 'available'. Along comes another passenger with a reservation coupon and turfs me out. This sort of musical chairs after every station call means you just cannot realistically enforce reservations when they aren't displayed.

There is no ideal solution but cancelling reservations is the least worst option in my view.

Any seats marked available with a green light can not be reserved at all on lner.

Seats marked ‘maybe reserved later’ (or something similar) with an orange light are the ones which can be reserved up to 5 minutes before departure.

 

[Adam Williams]

Ultimately what should be happening in these cases - rather than just turning off the on-train display system and leaving passengers to realise this when they board (which in 2023, is frankly pretty poor) - is that the reservations are cancelled in RARS with a reason "disruption due to fatality" and then customers are proactively notified by their retailer of choice (who is subscribed to receive updates about seat reservations they have made) that their reservation won't be honoured.

Unfortunately, there is no functioning system in place to allow for this to happen.

 

[Hadders]

Any seats marked available with a green light can not be reserved at all on lner.

Seats marked ‘maybe reserved later’ (or something similar) with an orange light are the ones which can be reserved up to 5 minutes before departure.

That's what normally happens, but we're talking about what happens when the reservations for a service haven't been loaded, i.e. it's completely switched off or every seat in every carriage shows as green (available).

 

[800001]

That's what normally happens, but we're talking about what happens when the reservations for a service haven't been loaded, i.e. it's completely switched off or every seat in every carriage shows as green (available).

And I replied to a post where the person stated ‘I sit in a seat marked available’ that implies seat reservations are on, so my point stands.

And at no point on an Azuma should every seat show green. That would only happen if there is no booked reservations at all on that service.

If reservations are suspended and it’s a free for all, no lights will show at all, as the reservation system would be turned off.

 

[Hadders]

And I replied to a post where the person stated ‘I sit in a seat marked available’ that implies seat reservations are on, so my point stands.

And at no point on an Azuma should every seat show green. That would only happen if there is no booked reservations at all on that service.

If reservations are suspended and it’s a free for all, no lights will show at all, as the reservation system would be turned off.

I’ve been on an Azuma (and a GWR IET) where every seat is showing Green.

 

[800001]

I’ve been on an Azuma (and a GWR IET) where every seat is showing Green.

Can’t speak for GWR, but if on an Azuma and every single light is green throughout the whole train then there is a system fault.

If reservations are suspended in LNER then the lights are turned off, the Train Manager has no way to turn all lights green.

 

[route101]

Better if they cancel the reservations all together. I had a situation on LNER recently where the guard asked everyone to stick to their reserved seats if possible. This was a swap from a 10 car to 9 car from Edinburgh.

 

[The Middle]

I had a brilliant one on a previous strike day on a 10 car where the carriage letter changed 3 times before departure. Cue me having to swap between the 2 units twice over

 

[yorkie]

Better if they cancel the reservations all together. I had a situation on LNER recently where the guard asked everyone to stick to their reserved seats if possible. This was a swap from a 10 car to 9 car from Edinburgh.

It's unhelpful when a guard is ambiguous in their messaging.

In contrast I was on the 1845 from Leeds on Friday and the Guard got it absolutely spot on, explaining the reason for there being no reservations, with no mixed messaging.

Sadly there is a lack of consistency in this area, but TPE and XC are far worse than LNER!

 

[Horizon22]

Can’t speak for GWR, but if on an Azuma and every single light is green throughout the whole train then there is a system fault.

If reservations are suspended in LNER then the lights are turned off, the Train Manager has no way to turn all lights green.

From my experience then these “faults” seem to be surprisingly common - not every day but not rare. This is the 80x fleet we are talking about though so it doesn’t necessarily surprise me if that’s the case!

One thing that can happen is boarding (especially if there’s delays) before the driver or train manager (not sure which and whether it differs across TOCs) has had a change to load up the reservations which can be a bit of a pain.

I have very rarely seen all lights off, but on a number of occasions seen all lights green.

 

[YorksLad12]

Seats marked ‘maybe reserved later’ (or something similar) with an orange light are the ones which can be reserved up to 5 minutes before departure.

It depends where on the journey you are. The unreserved coach should be all green (even when occupied, which seems counterintuitive), in the other coaches all of the lights will be red or amber at the start, The only greens you'll see are former reds when the train arrives at the station at which the seat becomes free. It works, after a fashion, but isn't much help to anyone who boards, find an 'empty' seat and doesn't notice that the amber light has turned red while they were sat sitting in it.

 

[800001]

It depends where on the journey you are. The unreserved coach should be all green (even when occupied, which seems counterintuitive), in the other coaches all of the lights will be red or amber at the start, The only greens you'll see are former reds when the train arrives at the station at which the seat becomes free. It works, after a fashion, but isn't much help to anyone who boards, find an 'empty' seat and doesn't notice that the amber light has turned red while they were sat sitting in it.

The unreserved coach c is now only about 50% unreserved.

 

[YorksLad12]

The unreserved coach c is now only about 50% unreserved.

Interesting! Last time I went to London (February), Coach C was not appearing on the online booking form on LNER's website.

 

[jkkne]

Interesting! Last time I went to London (February), Coach C was not appearing on the online booking form on LNER's website.

when I travelled Newcastle to KGX for the league cup final I was booked into C. I was last minute and I couldn’t change my ticket on the lner website. Is it a new thing for busier services.

Don’t see it as a positive move

 

[Brooke]

I took LNER from Peterboro to Kings across today. Obediently booked my seat on the LNER app a couple of hours in advance. Of course there was someone in my seat when I got on.

Same when I booked a couple of hours in advance from Leeds to London last week.