Wigan-Bolton services after electrification?

[Some guy]

They should definitely use this route as an emergency diversion for Avanti/TPE/Northern if euxton junction to lostock junction is blocked. The more routes staff sign the less likely of a replacement bus

 

[pokemonsuper9]

They should definitely use this route as an emergency diversion for Avanti/TPE/Northern if euxton junction to lostock junction is blocked. The more routes staff sign the less likely of a replacement bus

It's going to be cleared for Pendolinos, 323s and 331s will surely be cleared for it as the units that will probably run the service, but don't know about 397s or 802s.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The line doesn't make sense as a 158 operated line anyway, as there are frequent stops. It would be welcome if 150s were used either instead of, or together with 158s.

Don't Northern Trains need units from these classes for the new Northumberland Line services, as the current passenger totals have exceeded what was originally envisaged.

 

[Starmill]

Don't Northern Trains need units from these classes for the new Northumberland Line services, as the current passenger totals have exceeded what was originally envisaged.

There isn't hard evidence of that at present. Crowding is football related primarily.

One might well ask when the time period will be when definite official routings will be officially announced.

It could be the December 2026 timetable, it could be later.

 

[amahy]

I don't think there's going to be much difference between a 158 and a 156 on those terms. Almost every train on the Atherton line has a 156 or 158 in its formation.

Of the 10 Headbolt Lane diagrams, today, 8 of them are 150+156 and only 2 are 150+150

There aren't enough 158s, but there aren't enough 150s or 156s either! (and the 769s are mostly to blame for that)

Surely this is more of a case for Southport to Leeds as one service, as splitting it will almost certainly mean that more units are required?

 

[Starmill]

Surely this is more of a case for Southport to Leeds as one service, as splitting it will almost certainly mean that more units are required?

It doesn't. Currently there's a turnaround of over an hour at Wigan. This results from the previous turnaround being too short, both at Wigan North Western and also at Southport before it. This wastes a driver circuit in addition to a unit as the driver must wait almost 60 minutes in the siding at Wigan Wallgate.

Unfortunately this is has all been decided now anyway, the whole point of the turnbacks at Salford Crescent from the east and Manchester Victoria from the west is to help solve these problems.

I don't think there's going to be much difference between a 158 and a 156 on those terms. Almost every train on the Atherton line has a 156 or 158 in its formation.

Of the 10 Headbolt Lane diagrams, today, 8 of them are 150+156 and only 2 are 150+150

There aren't enough 158s, but there aren't enough 150s or 156s either! (and the 769s are mostly to blame for that)

Indeed. The 158s also have a higher top speed, which is reached on short sections of this route, and better acceleration.

 

[amahy]

It doesn't. Currently there's a turnaround of over an hour at Wigan. This results from the previous turnaround being too short, both at Wigan North Western and also at Southport before it. This wastes a driver circuit in addition to a unit as the driver must wait almost 60 minutes in the siding at Wigan Wallgate.

And now we go full circle: what’s the point in long turnaround times if control always insist on skipping stops to get the train back on time at the earliest opportunity, instead of using the long turnaround to get the train back on on time?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

And now we go full circle: what’s the point in long turnaround times if control always insist on skipping stops to get the train back on time at the earliest opportunity, instead of using the long turnaround to get the train back on on time?

I find that the Leeds -> Wigan trains usually only skip stops when it's running so late as to delay the Headbolt Lane train.

 

[Starmill]

And now we go full circle: what’s the point in long turnaround times if control always insist on skipping stops to get the train back on time at the earliest opportunity, instead of using the long turnaround to get the train back on on time?

Because if the train is running late through Manchester it'll delay other services, or the next one will catch it up. That's one of the many reasons such long turnaround times are a waste of scarce resources. The idea is to manage that one out, and focus on turnaround times generous enough to give 5-10 minutes of recovery but not so long they cost more units and drivers to run.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Because if the train is running late through Manchester it'll delay other services, or the next one will catch it up. That's one of the many reasons such long turnaround times are a waste of scarce resources. The idea is to manage that one out, and focus on turnaround times generous enough to give 5-10 minutes of recovery but not so long they cost more units and drivers to run.

Given the nature of the North West's operations I think while an hour is excessive, 5-10 minutes would mean Castlefield became even more of a joke. Ten minutes in the hour is about right to me for most cases.

 

[Zomboid]

How's the Bee Network going to affect this? Will Bee branded services be the shorter distance stopping services?
It would make sense to have a kind of tube map showing consistent end to end services. To suggest some straw man examples, Wigan - Bolton - Victoria as the "Red Line" (Electric trains), and Wigan - Atherton - Victoria - Rochdale as the "Green Line" (diesel), and services that go beyond (Eg Headbolt) might be shown differently.

 

[Bletchleyite]

How's the Bee Network going to affect this? Will Bee branded services be the shorter distance stopping services?
It would make sense to have a kind of tube map showing consistent end to end services. To suggest some straw man examples, Wigan - Bolton - Victoria as the "Red Line" (Electric trains), and Wigan - Atherton - Victoria - Rochdale as the "Green Line" (diesel), and services that go beyond (Eg Headbolt) might be shown differently.

Just like the Merseyrail City Line (a brand that is barely used now) the mainline services are going to have to extend past the boundary even if TfGM funds them inside it.

 

[WibbleWobble]

The line doesn't make sense as a 158 operated line anyway, as there are frequent stops. It would be welcome if 150s were used either instead of, or together with 158s.

Isn't this a result of the frequency reduction on the line? When Arriva increased the Atherton line to three trains per hour, the Leeds service only stopped at Daisy Hill, Atherton and Walkden. I would only assume there is no chance of that coming back, as it *could* (hypothetically) allow for a regional express service. It already is to a degree on the eastern half (especially non-stop from Victoria to Rochdale), the Rochdale - Todmorden bit lets it down; I suppose the only way to solve that would be a further service per hour (if paths available), which could be linked into the additional Atherton line stopper.

Beyond Wigan, I assume the service would have been hampered by the quick succession of stops between Burscough Bridge and Gathurst. Quite a few of those villages get a really good service in two per hour.