Wigan Wallgate ticket gates & plans to merge Wallgate & North Western stations

[WatcherZero]

Both have services to Manchester and half a million interchanges between them.

 

[edwin_m]

Both have services to Manchester

At present there is one fast service to Manchester from North Western in most hours, and various slower services from Wallgate, so someone without detailed knowledge of the timetable wouldn't know which station to go to and could miss a train as a result.

This situation will continue after completion of the Northern Hub and the various electrification schemes, albeit that the fast train will be Northern rather than TPE. Also when Lostock to Wigan is electrified the EMUs on that route will probably terminate in the bay platforms at North Western because of the issues discussed above that make it difficult to electrify into Wallgate.

So a future passenger going to Manchester risks an even greater confusion. If the train is to/from Southport or Kirkby probably be Wallgate, otherwise it's probably North Western. Unless it's a DMU vice EMU in which case it will be Wallgate...

A few years back TfGM were talking about integrating the CIS at the two stations so either would show departures from both, which would probably involve re-numbering the platforms at one station. Has any of this happened?

 

[WatcherZero]

Network Rail claimed it would be difficult to run a communication cable between them (even though they could easily string it through the tunnel beneath the bridge) so hasn't happened but still an objective.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Aren't many PIS just fed directly from the Internet these days?


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[Class 170101]

Network Rail claimed it would be difficult to run a communication cable between them (even though they could easily string it through the tunnel beneath the bridge) so hasn't happened but still an objective.

Aren't many PIS just fed directly from the Internet these days?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Indeed why do you need a cable these days just an appropriate 'mobile phone' signal would surely dd the trick?

 

[47271]

What's funny about this is that Wigan Central, the rather nice pub in the arches under North Western, conveys all of this information on TV screens on its side wall. It never occurred to me that they needed a big cable passing through from the station above.

 

[najaB]

Indeed why do you need a cable these days just an appropriate 'mobile phone' signal would surely dd the trick?

Hardline connections are used much more frequently than you might expect - any wireless connection is susceptible to interference.

 

[Greybeard33]

Last year a family friend from Scotland visited Manchester during weekend engineering works. The journey planner advised him to change from a VTWC service to a Northern service at Wigan. On arrival at North Western, he looked at the departure display and, unaware that there are two Wigan stations, assumed that the planner information was incorrect. After waiting for the next service from North Western to Manchester, he eventually arrived much later than if he had walked across the road to Wallgate.

 

[greaterwest]

Hardline connections are used much more frequently than you might expect - any wireless connection is susceptible to interference.

It's been done at Dorking Main / Dorking Deepdene which are no further away from each other, and have arguably more obstacles (the railway bridge, the road/main station forecourt)

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It's been done at Dorking Main / Dorking Deepdene which are no further away from each other, and have arguably more obstacles (the railway bridge, the road/main station forecourt)

The heavy road traffic on Wallgate, the road that separates the two stations in Wigan, which are not opposite to each other as some seem to think, is as much a barrier as the road area between the two stations in Dorking.

Arriving at Wigan Wallgate station, you have to go down a flight of stairs to access the platforms, whereas the opposite applies at Wigan North Western station.

I am sure that there are some on this thread who can give the average height differential between the platforms at the two stations in Wigan.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Last year a family friend from Scotland visited Manchester during weekend engineering works. The journey planner advised him to change from a VTWC service to a Northern service at Wigan. On arrival at North Western, he looked at the departure display and, unaware that there are two Wigan stations, assumed that the planner information was incorrect. After waiting for the next service from North Western to Manchester, he eventually arrived much later than if he had walked across the road to Wallgate.

Which is why my announcements approaching either Wigan station invariably made mention, if sometimes generalised, to the existence of services from the other station.

 

[37 418]

So to put into perspective, how many other out of station interchanges advertise arrivals/departures from the "other" station? :roll:

 

[Gathursty]

Wallgate has a gradient with WGN lower down the hill than WGW so you all may be overstating the difference in platform heights. If there is a problem with the curvature of the railway where Wallgate could be re-sited, then could we do an Angel Road and leave the platform on one side of Wallgate and the entrance to it on the other?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Wallgate has a gradient with WGN lower down the hill than WGW so you all may be overstating the difference in platform heights. If there is a problem with the curvature of the railway where Wallgate could be re-sited, then could we do an Angel Road and leave the platform on one side of Wallgate and the entrance to it on the other?

Have the council ever made any recent changes to their strategic plan for the centre of Wigan which would allow for any such aspirational changes? What costs do you envisage to carry out this proposal and who will be the contributionary bodies?

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

I am sure that there are some on this thread who can give the average height differential between the platforms at the two stations in Wigan.

Wallgate has a gradient with WGN lower down the hill than WGW so you all may be overstating the difference in platform heights. If there is a problem with the curvature of the railway where Wallgate could be re-sited, then could we do an Angel Road and leave the platform on one side of Wallgate and the entrance to it on the other?

I can't quote a specific height difference. Suffice it to say that the WCML immediately north of North Western station passes over the western approach to Wallgate station on a bridge which could never be described as low!

So to put into perspective, how many other out of station interchanges advertise arrivals/departures from the "other" station? :roll:

In my experience the booking office staff at Wallgate tend to have a good awareness of departure times of "local" services from North Western and regularly pass the information on to passengers without any prompting. Indeed many intending passengers purchase tickets for Blackpool, Liverpool, etc from Wallgate station seemingly in ignorance of North Western's existence. And the booking office opening hours are somewhat longer at Wallgate than at North Western.

 

[greaterwest]

The heavy road traffic on Wallgate, the road that separates the two stations in Wigan, which are not opposite to each other as some seem to think, is as much a barrier as the road area between the two stations in Dorking.

Arriving at Wigan Wallgate station, you have to go down a flight of stairs to access the platforms, whereas the opposite applies at Wigan North Western station.

I am sure that there are some on this thread who can give the average height differential between the platforms at the two stations in Wigan.

At Dorking Deepdene you have to go up a flight of stairs to access the platform.
In this day and age I'd expect a CIS screen like that to be fed from the station itself rather than across a road. What a silly idea.

 

[yorksrob]

I'm pretty sure that the pub underneath Wigan NW has departure boards for both NW and Wallgate stations.

 

[47271]

I'm pretty sure that the pub underneath Wigan NW has departure boards for both NW and Wallgate stations.

Yes it does, see my not entirely serious post #36.

 

[yorksrob]

Yes it does, see my not entirely serious post #36.

I remember thinking what a good idea that was at the time.

It rather suggests having departures for both stations at both stations shouldn't be a problem.

 

[najaB]

It rather suggests having departures for both stations at both stations shouldn't be a problem.

I don't work in the industry so this is pure speculation, but I'm going to guess that the pub departure board isn't 'official' and so is subject to different rules than the ones in the stations themselves. For one thing, I would expect that station staff need to be able to override the displays and inject messages, I've never seen those messages (you know the kind - engineering works next week causing changes to services, etc.) on out-of-station display boards.

That's not to say it is impossible, or even technically hard, just that the boards in the pub are probably fed a different way than the in-station boards.

 

[PR1Berske]

The (very useful) screens at (the very good) Wigan Central have something like "powered by National Rail enquiries" as a footer on the bottom of the screen. I'm hazarding a guess that they're not programmed to show anything beyond time, destination, expected time.

 

[yorksrob]

I don't work in the industry so this is pure speculation, but I'm going to guess that the pub departure board isn't 'official' and so is subject to different rules than the ones in the stations themselves. For one thing, I would expect that station staff need to be able to override the displays and inject messages, I've never seen those messages (you know the kind - engineering works next week causing changes to services, etc.) on out-of-station display boards.

That's not to say it is impossible, or even technically hard, just that the boards in the pub are probably fed a different way than the in-station boards.

I was in there that Saturday when the WCML started going up the creek due to flooding. The boards seemed to be showing all of the delays, although I don't recall any particular messages.

 

[notlob.divad]

Surely the easiest answer is to combine the name and identifier of the two stations to be just "Wigan" and re-number the two platforms at Wallgate to be A&B as is done with Thameslink at St Pancras.

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't Wigan North Western, named after a railway company that hasn't existed for the best part of the last century. It certainly isn't a reference to it's location within the town. Isn't it about time the little nuance of history was dropped. The existing foot transfer between the '2' stations is about the same as the transfer between platforms 4/5 and the rest at Earlestown or indeed the different sections of Shotton.

As for the display of data: I cannot believe that the 'running of a cable' which if push came to shove could be run entirely within railway land (the long way around) is preventing the display of the data between the two stations.

The (very useful) screens at (the very good) Wigan Central have something like "powered by National Rail enquiries" as a footer on the bottom of the screen. I'm hazarding a guess that they're not programmed to show anything beyond time, destination, expected time.

Isn't that all that is needed to make people's lives easier. Liverpool Everyman theatre manages to show all the departures and calling points from Liverpool Lime Street including delays despite being 1/2 a km away (as the crow flies). It might not be 'official' but it is surely better than nothing.

 

[najaB]

Surely the easiest answer is to combine the name and identifier of the two stations to be just "Wigan" and re-number the two platforms at Wallgate to be A&B as is done with Thameslink at St Pancras.

That will make the communications requirement higher, not lower since they would need to combine PA and PIS if they were to operate as a single station. Again, not a show-stopper but something that would need to be taken into consideration.

 

[Gathursty]

Have the council ever made any recent changes to their strategic plan for the centre of Wigan which would allow for any such aspirational changes? What costs do you envisage to carry out this proposal and who will be the contributionary bodies?

I've got no idea on both those questions but the more I think about doing an Angel Road, the more I think it is possible. There would obviously be a need to overhaul at least 3 of the shops on the opposite side of Wallgate but I do believe that there is sufficient space between the tracks underneath the pie shop for a staircase/lift to Wallgate and path to the current platforms. If there was an issue with the staircase, you could keep it where it is and just have two entrances on either side of the road.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I don't work in the industry so this is pure speculation, but I'm going to guess that the pub departure board isn't 'official' and so is subject to different rules than the ones in the stations themselves.

I'm not sure what displays they use at Wigan, but pubs at places like Leeds show the displays from Worldline TIGER which is an industry product.

As an example: http://iris2.rail.co.uk/tiger/rendercissod.asp?file=3031B4.xml

 

[QueensCurve]

I'm not sure what displays they use at Wigan, but pubs at places like Leeds show the displays from Worldline TIGER which is an industry product.

As an example: http://iris2.rail.co.uk/tiger/rendercissod.asp?file=3031B4.xml

I wasn't aware of that.

I notice Tiger doesn't cover all stations. Are there similar products?

 

[notlob.divad]

I wasn't aware of that.

I notice Tiger doesn't cover all stations. Are there similar products?

The one in the Everyman is by ATOC, I think it is a licensed product looking at the website. I can however give you a link to a google streetview image of the screen.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.4029255,-2.9694751,3a,59.3y,263.64h,91.08t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sjrbxQBy4314AAAQvOaEXig!2e0!3e2!7i13312!8i6656

 

[snail]

The heavy road traffic on Wallgate, the road that separates the two stations in Wigan, which are not opposite to each other as some seem to think, is as much a barrier as the road area between the two stations in Dorking.

Wallgate isn't that busy since the town centre bypass opened. I use the two stations regularly in a morning to get from Preston to Salford Central. Takes me 2-3 minutes from P4 of NW to the Wallgate platform, including the occasional wait for a car or bus to pass when crossing the road.

 

[najaB]

Wallgate isn't that busy since the town centre bypass opened.

It can be. I was there last week and it probably took 2 to 3 minutes just to cross the road.