Will I get charged for all my friends' invalid tickets?

[natalialol]

Hi.
I recently got caught paying a child's ticket for a train journey as a 17 year old. I completely understand my actions and I'm ready to pay an out of court settlement when it arrives. (I got told by the inspector I'll be checked for how many times I've done this and get a report, and I've read every corner of this forum and understand this. I just have a few questions)

My problem is, when I do this with my friends, it's my Trainline account that I buy everyone's tickets on. Some of my journeys include 2+ child tickets bought for the same journey. Will I be fined for every single child's ticket I've bought? There are times I've bought two adult and two child tickets, will I be fined for the child tickets?

On a similar note, my train fine was with northern, but will they check every train I've done this before on or just northern?

Ive also been considering buying the 16-17 Railcard and going out of my way to use the train to school and back (I normally take the bus) to try show how I've learnt from this mistake. Would this help my case?

That is all, thank you so much for taking the time to read/respond!
(Any additional information needed, it was a northern train from Nottingham-Leeds but because of my age and how the stops in-between are quite small towns, I don't feel comfortable saying which stop I got on and off at. I always buy my tickets for exactly the right stop I'm getting on/off at, I just bought child's tickets. I've been doing this for about a year and 4 months, but maybe 20 times overall because I normally can't afford trains.)

 

[dciuk]

My problem is, when I do this with my friends, it's my Trainline account that I buy everyone's tickets on. Some of my journeys include 2+ child tickets bought for the same journey. Will I be fined for every single child's ticket I've bought? There are times I've bought two adult and two child tickets, will I be fined for the child tickets?

You will need to wait and see what they ask when they write to you. It is not a crime to purchase child tickets, but is to use them if you are not a child, however if you did not use them they should not be including those in any settlement, although you might need to let them know if and when you get a settlement offer where they have been included. When you were purchasing the 2 adult and 2 child tickets were you using the adult tickets and were the child tickets purchased for under 16's?

On a similar note, my train fine was with northern, but will they check every train I've done this before on or just northern?

They can check tickets for all train companies

Ive also been considering buying the 16-17 Railcard and going out of my way to use the train to school and back (I normally take the bus) to try show how I've learnt from this mistake. Would this help my case?

It would be a good idea to purchase the 16-17 railcard, presuming you are in that age group, but I do not think you need to go out of your way to make train journeys you would not otherwise be making. Please note that the 16-17 railcard will only be valid until the day before your 18th birthday, so if that is soon you might be better off purchasing an alternative railcard, although always make sure you apply the correct railcard option when purchasing tickets. You cannot use a 16-17 railcard discount unless you actually hold such a railcard and that railcard is valid and in date

I always buy my tickets for exactly the right stop I'm getting on/off at, I just bought child's tickets. I've been doing this for about a year and 4 months, but maybe 20 times overall because I normally can't afford trains.)

If only you had spent £30 per year on the 16/17 railcard you would have been able to use tickets that would probably have been the same price as the child tickets, but you cannot undo that now

 

[Lewisham2221]

Hi.
I recently got caught paying a child's ticket for a train journey as a 17 year old. I completely understand my actions and I'm ready to pay an out of court settlement when it arrives. (I got told by the inspector I'll be checked for how many times I've done this and get a report, and I've read every corner of this forum and understand this. I just have a few questions)

My problem is, when I do this with my friends, it's my Trainline account that I buy everyone's tickets on. Some of my journeys include 2+ child tickets bought for the same journey. Will I be fined for every single child's ticket I've bought? There are times I've bought two adult and two child tickets, will I be fined for the child tickets?

On a similar note, my train fine was with northern, but will they check every train I've done this before on or just northern?

Ive also been considering buying the 16-17 Railcard and going out of my way to use the train to school and back (I normally take the bus) to try show how I've learnt from this mistake. Would this help my case?

That is all, thank you so much for taking the time to read/respond!
(Any additional information needed, it was a northern train from Nottingham-Leeds but because of my age and how the stops in-between are quite small towns, I don't feel comfortable saying which stop I got on and off at. I always buy my tickets for exactly the right stop I'm getting on/off at, I just bought child's tickets. I've been doing this for about a year and 4 months, but maybe 20 times overall because I normally can't afford trains.)

It's quite possible (probable?) that they may look at your purchase history and (incorrectly) conclude that every child ticket purchased on your account was used by you.

From what I can gather, if/when they offer an out of court settlement, they will usually explain how they have calculated that figure and include a list (usually a spreadsheet or similar document) of all the journeys that they are taking into account. It should be fairly straightforward to identify the occasions where you have purchased two identical tickets for the same journey on the same date/time and explain that one of those tickets was for your friend.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi.
I recently got caught paying a child's ticket for a train journey as a 17 year old. I completely understand my actions and I'm ready to pay an out of court settlement when it arrives. (I got told by the inspector I'll be checked for how many times I've done this and get a report, and I've read every corner of this forum and understand this. I just have a few questions)

My problem is, when I do this with my friends, it's my Trainline account that I buy everyone's tickets on. Some of my journeys include 2+ child tickets bought for the same journey. Will I be fined for every single child's ticket I've bought? There are times I've bought two adult and two child tickets, will I be fined for the child tickets?

On a similar note, my train fine was with northern, but will they check every train I've done this before on or just northern?

Ive also been considering buying the 16-17 Railcard and going out of my way to use the train to school and back (I normally take the bus) to try show how I've learnt from this mistake. Would this help my case?

That is all, thank you so much for taking the time to read/respond!
(Any additional information needed, it was a northern train from Nottingham-Leeds but because of my age and how the stops in-between are quite small towns, I don't feel comfortable saying which stop I got on and off at. I always buy my tickets for exactly the right stop I'm getting on/off at, I just bought child's tickets. I've been doing this for about a year and 4 months, but maybe 20 times overall because I normally can't afford trains.)

Given the situation you have created by buying other people’s tickets with discounts I’m assuming they were not entitled to have (?) what will be important will be getting help from here on exactly what you reply to the railway company in terms of your wording.

I think it would now help your case if you did buy the 16-17 railcard (or 16-25 if it’s not that long before your 18th birthday to recoup the value of the 16-17 railcard before its validity would cease).

 

[AlterEgo]

If you’re 17 they won’t prosecute you and can’t claim anything off you via civil means easily. Your parent or guardian will get a letter about this.

 

[natalialol]

When you were purchasing the 2 adult and 2 child tickets were you using the adult tickets and were the child tickets purchased for under 16's?

We were all above the age of 16 except for one, I bought them all myself so I just sort of ran through each ticket off my phone (one of us couldn't afford an adult ticket). I'm the "responsible" person in all my friend groups so every ticket is bought off my phone, so it'll say "two child tickets purchased from _ to _", but I just thought surely I can't get charged for both because it's obvious I'm not just using both tickets by myself right? I hope I've explained that okay ^^

If you’re 17 they won’t prosecute you and can’t claim anything off you via civil means easily. Your parent or guardian will get a letter about this.

So what will my parents get a letter about? I figured I could've just paid the out of court settlement (I've started saving up) without having to involve them. English isn't their first language and they don't really understand trains in the UK (hence why I purchase tickets for multiple people, just a habit).

Given the situation you have created by buying other people’s tickets with discounts I’m assuming they were not entitled to have (?) what will be important will be getting help from here on exactly what you reply to the railway company in terms of your wording.

I think it would now help your case if you did buy the 16-17 railcard (or 16-25 if it’s not that long before your 18th birthday to recoup the value of the 16-17 railcard before its validity would cease).

Thank you so much! Yes, basically no one I buy tickets for is entitled to have them. I'll come back to this thread when I do get my letter!

I'll probably purchase the Railcard (I turn 18 in November so it's still got a bit of time and I'm planning to travel a lot this summer...if the settlement doesn't crush me)

It should be fairly straightforward to identify the occasions where you have purchased two identical tickets for the same journey on the same date/time and explain that one of those tickets was for your friend.

Could this get my friends in trouble? I know the answer is probably not but it feels important to ask. I didn't think they would really include two identical tickets on the spreadsheets but I'm really grateful for your answer thank you!

 

[Lewisham2221]

Could this get my friends in trouble? I know the answer is probably not but it feels important to ask.

It's highly unlikely. They have no real way of identifying and contacting your friends - you have no obligation to identify them. They would only get into trouble if they were to continue using invalid tickets and were caught doing so and had their details taken (or could be traced via their online ticketing account if they start buying their own e-tickets).

I didn't think they would really include two identical tickets on the spreadsheets but I'm really grateful for your answer thank you!

They may not, but we do see many cases where they assume all similar purchases are equally fraudulent unless/until you can explain otherwise.

However, as @AlterEgo has stated above, you are under 18 - so they may not deal with this in the same way as most other cases we see here.

Going forward, I would advise that you stop purchasing tickets for your friends (or at least make sure you purchase the correct tickets for them), always purchase the correct tickets for yourself and consider purchasing a railcard.

 

[AlterEgo]

Your parents will be written to asking for their comments on the matter. You need to speak to them about this because it is they who will get the letter.

 

[natalialol]

They may not, but we do see many cases where they assume all similar purchases are equally fraudulent unless/until you can explain otherwise.

How can I prove it? I buy both tickets at the same time on the app, so do I just point that out? Like when I purchase the tickets I press two (or 3) at a time.

However, as @AlterEgo has stated above, you are under 18 - so they may not deal with this in the same way as most other cases we see here.

Ahh that's really worrying, how could they deal with it? Is there any similar case on this forum?

Going forward, I would advise that you stop purchasing tickets for your friends (or at least make sure you purchase the correct tickets for them), always purchase the correct tickets for yourself and consider purchasing a railcard.

Yeah definitely learnt my lesson, and will remember it after the letter.

Your parents will be written to asking for their comments on the matter. You need to speak to them about this because it is they who will get the letter.

It'll end up being me writing it because of my parents little English, but I will go through this with them. What would they/I have to say? I want to work in forensic psychology so I'm ready to pay anything to not get a record

 

[AlterEgo]

It'll end up being me writing it because of my parents little English, but I will go through this with them. What would they/I have to say? I want to work in forensic psychology so I'm ready to pay anything to not get a record

It’s up to your parents what they’d like to say - we can’t tell you what your parents should write or how they should deal with their child.

 

[dciuk]

How can I prove it? I buy both tickets at the same time on the app, so do I just point that out? Like when I purchase the tickets I press two (or 3) at a time.

Wait and see what they ask first then come back here for advice, but if you are being honest with them, they may take your word for it and remove them. It will be obvious that you have not used 2 tickets for the same journey and if they were both scanned at a ticket gate around the same time Northern would be able to see that

 

[natalialol]

It’s up to your parents what they’d like to say - we can’t tell you what your parents should write or how they should deal with their child.

What kind of comment are they asking from my parents? Will the letter just be like "your child has done this what do you have to say about it?" Or will it ask them to pay a fine?
I Don't know anyone with any experience with the system, so I'm sorry for all the questions but I feel like preparing my parents for this letter the best I can!

 

[dciuk]

Ahh that's really worrying, how could they deal with it? Is there any similar case on this forum?

As you are under 18 it is likely they will be more lenient with you. They might decide to settle for the equivalent of a penalty fare

 

[natalialol]

Wait and see what they ask first then come back here for advice, but if you are being honest with them, they may take your word for it and remove them. It will be obvious that you have not used 2 tickets for the same journey and if they were both scanned at a ticket gate around the same time Northern would be able to see that

Yeah they were both scared seconds after eachother on the train! I'll make sure to come back and post whatever I receive, thank you!!

 

[dciuk]

What kind of comment are they asking from my parents? Will the letter just be like "your child has done this what do you have to say about it?" Or will it ask them to pay a fine?
I Don't know anyone with any experience with the system, so I'm sorry for all the questions but I feel like preparing my parents for this letter the best I can!

You can ask your parents to let you deal with it when they get the letter. You can then post it here so that we can offer the best advice

 

[natalialol]

As you are under 18 it is likely they will be more lenient with you. They might decide to settle for the equivalent of a penalty fare

Thank you so much! I'm hoping it'll be that way, but since they can check how many times I've done this I'm not too hopeful.

You can ask your parents to let you deal with it when they get the letter. You can then post it here so that we can offer the best advice

My parents have agreed this is my problem and anything I receive will be dealt with by myself (with their supervision) so I'll definitely post on here!
Thank you so much!

 

[dciuk]

I'll probably purchase the Railcard (I turn 18 in November so it's still got a bit of time and I'm planning to travel a lot this summer...if the settlement doesn't crush me)

It sounds like purchasing the 16/17 railcard will be the best option even if you only get about 9 months use out of it as it has a larger discount and less restrictions than the 16-25 railcard, then once you are 18 you can purchase a 16-25 railcard

 

[natalialol]

It sounds like purchasing the 16/17 railcard will be the best option even if you only get about 9 months use out of it as it has a larger discount and less restrictions than the 16-25 railcard, then once you are 18 you can purchase a 16-25 railcard

Yeah I've thought the same thing, and even though I don't use trains often I hope this can show my understanding of the punishment and intent to change my behaviour. I'm just hoping this letter comes soon so I can forget it and focus on my alevels haha. I really appreciate your kindness and support

 

[Pushpit]

Yeah I've thought the same thing, and even though I don't use trains often I hope this can show my understanding of the punishment and intent to change my behaviour. I'm just hoping this letter comes soon so I can forget it and focus on my alevels haha. I really appreciate your kindness and support

For your chosen clinical field - which is desperately important and massively under-staffed - you may spend a lot of your working day in a prison or working with the courts and police. Though as a digression, forensic psychologists are actually desperately needed in the community to prevent people going to prison in the first place. It's the one area where the right person at the right time can do so much good. Suffice to say it is incredibly important not to get any black marks on your record. You get a bit of leeway, in fact quite a lot of leeway, for being under 18 but essentially you are an adult now, and you need to set the very highest example from now on.

 

[WesternLancer]

For your chosen clinical field - which is desperately important and massively under-staffed - you may spend a lot of your working day in a prison or working with the courts and police. Though as a digression, forensic psychologists are actually desperately needed in the community to prevent people going to prison in the first place. It's the one area where the right person at the right time can do so much good. Suffice to say it is incredibly important not to get any black marks on your record. You get a bit of leeway, in fact quite a lot of leeway, for being under 18 but essentially you are an adult now, and you need to set the very highest example from now on.

Points very well made

@natalialol - it's really important that you don't make your future career choice more difficult by doing things now that 'might seem like a good idea at the time' and the temptation to save a few £ now could potentially massively reduce the amount of £ you could earn long term doing something you are keen to do.

So
a) do stop doing this and anything else similar
b) best to stop buying other people's tickets in general - and if they want to fare dodge definitely let them buy their own tickets and deal with the consequences without involving you in any way

 

[natalialol]

For your chosen clinical field - which is desperately important and massively under-staffed - you may spend a lot of your working day in a prison or working with the courts and police. Though as a digression, forensic psychologists are actually desperately needed in the community to prevent people going to prison in the first place. It's the one area where the right person at the right time can do so much good. Suffice to say it is incredibly important not to get any black marks on your record. You get a bit of leeway, in fact quite a lot of leeway, for being under 18 but essentially you are an adult now, and you need to set the very highest example from now on.

Points very well made

@natalialol - it's really important that you don't make your future career choice more difficult by doing things now that 'might seem like a good idea at the time' and the temptation to save a few £ now could potentially massively reduce the amount of £ you could earn long term doing something you are keen to do.

So
a) do stop doing this and anything else similar
b) best to stop buying other people's tickets in general - and if they want to fare dodge definitely let them buy their own tickets and deal with the consequences without involving you in any way

Hi! Thank you for your response! Im very greatful that this won't effect my record too much (hopefully anyway) and I've definitely learnt my lesson to abide by laws from here. I also won't let my friends fare dodge because this has really shook me and I don't wish it on anyone around me. And I hope to set the highest example from here!

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi! Thank you for your response! Im very greatful that this won't effect my record too much (hopefully anyway) and I've definitely learnt my lesson to abide by laws from here. I also won't let my friends fare dodge because this has really shook me and I don't wish it on anyone around me. And I hope to set the highest example from here!

a commendable approach

 

[Pushpit]

Hi! Thank you for your response! Im very greatful that this won't effect my record too much (hopefully anyway) and I've definitely learnt my lesson to abide by laws from here. I also won't let my friends fare dodge because this has really shook me and I don't wish it on anyone around me. And I hope to set the highest example from here!

That's all good. It's quite tricky, and may seem a bad thing to do, but in your particular potential career you need to develop a degree of careful detachment. since it's involves just about the highest level of scrutiny going, for reasons which are related to dealing with some of the most dangerous and yet most vulnerable members of society. You probably need to hold your closest, most trustworthy, most sensible friends very close, but also create some distance from those whose values may adversely rub up against you. You just have to be a bit careful with those who won't have the same approach as you.

To give an example, and I'm changing some details deliberately. Someone I know training to be a forensic psychiatrist lost their mobile phone when out socialising and the phone went flat along the way. It was found by a lady who worked in the pub, she took it upon herself to charge up the phone and then switch it on to see if someone would ring it. In so doing the summaries of some WhatsApp messages flashed over the screen, and it seems this particular Group had a taste in sexist and mildly homophobic humour. The student concerned had sent none of these messages, but he was ill-advisedly a member of this WhatsApp group of friends. The woman then took the phone to the police, laid a complaint, the police then located the student and asked him to attend a voluntary interview. As a result he then had to report these embarrassing messages to his line manager (who is gay) and to his clinical register, who may yet take action against him. He may well end up with a short term Caution on his record, even though he had sent none of the offensive messages.

 

[natalialol]

That's all good. It's quite tricky, and may seem a bad thing to do, but in your particular potential career you need to develop a degree of careful detachment. since it's involves just about the highest level of scrutiny going, for reasons which are related to dealing with some of the most dangerous and yet most vulnerable members of society. You probably need to hold your closest, most trustworthy, most sensible friends very close, but also create some distance from those whose values may adversely rub up against you. You just have to be a bit careful with those who won't have the same approach as you.

To give an example, and I'm changing some details deliberately. Someone I know training to be a forensic psychiatrist lost their mobile phone when out socialising and the phone went flat along the way. It was found by a lady who worked in the pub, she took it upon herself to charge up the phone and then switch it on to see if someone would ring it. In so doing the summaries of some WhatsApp messages flashed over the screen, and it seems this particular Group had a taste in sexist and mildly homophobic humour. The student concerned had sent none of these messages, but he was ill-advisedly a member of this WhatsApp group of friends. The woman then took the phone to the police, laid a complaint, the police then located the student and asked him to attend a voluntary interview. As a result he then had to report these embarrassing messages to his line manager (who is gay) and to his clinical register, who may yet take action against him. He may well end up with a short term Caution on his record, even though he had sent none of the offensive messages.

Im so sorry that person is going through that, and I will take your advice. I understand the severity of the field I want to go into and don't want to lose my opportunity. I'm very glad this forum heard me and offered me good advice and criticism. I'll update when I get the letter!

 

[natalialol]

Hi everyone!! Ive got it and safe to say I was really lucky. I've got no idea how the fine is this low but I've never been more greatful and I appreciate how much this incident has shocked me. I've bought a Railcard now and encourage everyone to buy train tickets truthfully. Thank you everyone!!

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi everyone!! Ive got it and safe to say I was really lucky. I've got no idea how the fine is this low but I've never been more greatful and I appreciate how much this incident has shocked me. I've bought a Railcard now and encourage everyone to buy train tickets truthfully. Thank you everyone!! View attachment 178111

You have been very lucky here as it looks like they are just charging you for the fare you owe I suspect. probably because you are under 18 perhaps.

Going forward and as you get older make sure you always have the correct ticket and also that you have a railcard and that it is valid and in date (also check the T&Cs of the Railcard you have ref when it can be used so you don't make genuine mistakes over the discounts etc)

 

[Haywain]

I've got no idea how the fine is this low

Because taking you to court is not a good look for them and is more trouble than it's worth. However, you are now on their radar so don't think that you can carry on buying the wrong tickets.