Woking - Basingstoke (near Hook) landslip (15/01/23)

[moley]

Ticket clerk this morning said back to normal at Easter!

 

[yorksrob]

Even Dawlish didn't take that long !

 

[swt_passenger]

Ticket clerk this morning said back to normal at Easter!

That seems quite likely. I think from memory the 2020 Salisbury embankment slip took about 6 weeks for a temporary repair sufficient to get trains running, and about another 6 months before the full permanent repairs were completed. At Botley in 2014 it was a full width failure of a somewhat lower embankment, only single track on a two track width, but it also took 6 weeks to run trains, and many months of continuing work afterwards.

I would expect Hook to be a longer job simply because they’re hoping to have trains running past the site of failure.

 

[moley]

I’m sure it’s just gossip but he said he’d been briefed that the priority was to get a country bound line fully operational before the February closure of the Pompey direct. And that a proper repair would take place following that closure.

He seemed to reckon that due to the amount of rain, it could take another couple of weeks to get a roadway in place suitable to support the cranes needed.

 

[Edsmith]

Thanks. One minute the SWR twitter feed says they are accepting tickets on Exeter/Paddington route and then they'll say its just the Reading /Paddington section and you need to go via Basingstoke. I just wonder how many staff on the ground know as I'm due to travel this week from Folkestone West to Exeter Central and am trying to reduce my stress! 8 see there is engineering work Saturday and Sunday on the Andover section.

This is typical, I spoke to a member of SWR staff about this during a previous disruption and he said SWR/GWR are reluctant to give carte blanche to travel on the Paddington to Exeter service with the cheaper ticket via Honiton but if you do go that way during disruption it's unlikely that anyone will say anything about it.

 

[zwk500]

Even Dawlish didn't take that long !

Dawlish was already a concrete retaining wall and only two lines. It was a more straightforward job to rebuild the wall and pack the fill. I expect that restoring one Down Line will happen relatively quickly, but the full Linespeed needs the embankment stabilising which is probably a significant amount of work, potentially with geotextiles and the like.

 

[swt_passenger]

I realise it's been very wet lately but why did we not get such big issues in previous wet winters? Has there been a lack of maintenance in recent years?

There might have been the odd incident before, but from reports on here, it sounds like the entire "Southern Region" is grinding to a halt!

Answering this question again to add some numbers, NR Kent/Sussex have put out a video on Twitter, they have had 200 earthworks incidents of which 25 in the last 3 years have caused significant disruption to passengers. It is linked on the Hurst Green thread but I’ll repeat it here:

https://twitter.com/NetworkRailSE/status/1615637633136267265

 

[Renternolonger]

This is typical, I spoke to a member of SWR staff about this during a previous disruption and he said SWR/GWR are reluctant to give carte blanche to travel on the Paddington to Exeter service with the cheaper ticket via Honiton but if you do go that way during disruption it's unlikely that anyone will say anything about it.

Again, great to know, thanks very much.

 

[nw1]

Answering this question again to add some numbers, NR Kent/Sussex have put out a video on Twitter, they have had 200 earthworks incidents of which 25 in the last 3 years have caused significant disruption to passengers. It is linked on the Hurst Green thread but I’ll repeat it here:

https://twitter.com/NetworkRailSE/status/1615637633136267265

OK, thanks for that. Apologies, I had missed many of these.

 

[The Ham]

Where are they running weekday daytime replacement buses elsewhere on the SWR network at the moment? I can only see late night and weekend ones - times when, as I said, bus drivers actually are available to be utilised outside of bus operators current commitments.

OK, so where's the late night buses for this closure then?

Likewise I hope that means you're implying there'll be some form of bus replacement over the weekend.

I won't hold my breath...

 

[Mike Machin]

I’m sure it’s just gossip but he said he’d been briefed that the priority was to get a country bound line fully operational before the February closure of the Pompey direct. And that a proper repair would take place following that closure.

He seemed to reckon that due to the amount of rain, it could take another couple of weeks to get a roadway in place suitable to support the cranes needed.

I'm not surprised. I live in Hampshire on the London Clay and the ground is absolutely saturated beyond belief, and at the moment all the wetness isn't going anywhere because it has frozen solid!

 

[Flange Squeal]

OK, so where's the late night buses for this closure then?

Likewise I hope that means you're implying there'll be some form of bus replacement over the weekend.

I won't hold my breath...

The few vehicles they have managed to source - a couple of single deck coaches and small minibuses from operators well outside the local area - as resilience back-up and extra capacity for the shuttle can clearly be seen parked at Woking station. A late night service home to your local station isn’t much use if you can’t travel anywhere from it the rest of the day to start with.

As for the weekend, if you actually look then the website clearly states “A rail replacement bus service will operate between Basingstoke and Woking calling at Hook, Winchfield, Fleet, Farnborough Main and Brookwood (subject to bus availability)”. Presumably using resources displaced from the planned Portsmouth Direct work that has now been postponed to facilitate the slewing of the mainline.

It then goes on to say from Monday that “After a week of no services, SWR intends to restore a limited rail service at Hook, Winchfield and Fleet stations”.

https://www.southwesternrailway.com/plan-my-journey/hook-landslip

 

[quartile]

SWR website saying - NR hoping to do a repair this weekend with a limited services to all stations on Monday -if it is successful.

Cheap Train Tickets | No Booking Fees | South Western Railway

Buy cheap train tickets and check train times with South Western Railway. Save up to 50% with Advance tickets, pay no booking fees and get rewarded with SWR Rewards.

www.southwesternrailway.com

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Jan 2023 ==

SWR twitter this morning on autopilot tweeting a map about this weekend's engineering work without a mention of Hook

https://twitter.com/SW_Help/status/1615967300502306816

 

[pompeyfan]

SWR website saying - NR hoping to do a repair this weekend with a limited services to all stations on Monday -if it is successful.

Cheap Train Tickets | No Booking Fees | South Western Railway

Buy cheap train tickets and check train times with South Western Railway. Save up to 50% with Advance tickets, pay no booking fees and get rewarded with SWR Rewards.

www.southwesternrailway.com

I imagine Hook on the down would have no service and also a service group or 2 might have to be curtailed due to reduced capacity in the area.

Off the top of my head there would be a clash on the up between the xx:54, xx:57 and xx:03 pass at Basingstoke, and the down would see issues around the same time between the down xx:57 arrival and the xx:00 Portsmouth.

 

[HantsExile]

A report from the front line!

I travelled from Winchester to London and back yesterday (18th) on an Off-Peak Return to "London Terminals", "Valid via any permitted route".

Outward

No SWR staff at the gateline (gates open) but 3 SWR staff in the Platform 1 (down) office. I knocked on the door, SWR chap answered it and confirmed that Winchester --> Reading --> Paddington is a "permitted route".

No staff on Platform 2 (up) but one SWR staff on the gateline who was getting questions about ticket validity but not answering them confidently.

Trains all delayed but plenty of helpful announcements re re-timings, reasons for delay etc.

Eventually an announcement was made that Cross Country and GWR were "accepting tickets" originally booked for SWR journeys. But if via Reading is a permitted route ...

Delayed & crowded Cross Country Winchester --> Reading, easy interchange onto Paddington train (GWR).

Return

No problem Paddington --> Reading (GWR) or Reading --> Basingstoke (GWR).

At Basingstoke, checked with gateline staff who directed me to the 21.03 from Platform 4 (SWR).

Train in platform but doors locked. No station staff visible, 2 SWR staff standing on platform - driver + ? Departure time approached, word got round via the driver that there was a problem with "no guard".

Then an announcement that all passengers on P4 should make their way across to P2 where a delayed Weymouth (?) train was about to arrive. Hurried over, no train. Announcement that the next train on P2 "does not stop here, please stand clear". Train arrived, stopped and took on passengers and after quite a wait, departed towards Winchester - by then I gather it was an hour late? Not sure what happened to the 21.03 ???

Had been trying to keep up with all this via NRE app "Live trains" but it kept crashing.

I appreciate there must be many challenges at Basingstoke, and I'm grateful for the efforts of staff to provide a service in these difficult circumstances.

But as far as I'm able, I'm going to avoid changing at Basingstoke. This is not the first time I've had to dash down and up those stairs and through that subway, and I'm getting a bit old for it !!!

 

[Meglos]

OK, so where's the late night buses for this closure then?

So the vehicles might be available, but it doesn't follow that there are drivers to drive them. The drivers who drove them during the day will likely be out of hours.

 

[infobleep]

Yes Northam Depot has been closed since last Thursday evening from approx 2000 with a dead short, in order to get some power back
to the depot they have had to cross feed the substations and only late yesterday where they able to reopen although the berthing sidings
arent juiced currently and so not cause to much current to be pulled at one time, only 1 unit can take power and then in power reduction mode only. The component that broke has had to be ordered and could take between 10 and 12 weeks to arrive as it has to be made.
The other problem is that units havent been able to return to Northam for exams and other scheduled maintanance work and are now
stuck in other depots and berthing sidings awaiting movement to Northam so this will mean a knock on effect of potential short train
formations as a result.

Hope that answers your question.....

I'm surprised they haven't put out a general information notice on this to customers or if they have, I haven't noticed it.

 

[yorksrob]

Dawlish was already a concrete retaining wall and only two lines. It was a more straightforward job to rebuild the wall and pack the fill. I expect that restoring one Down Line will happen relatively quickly, but the full Linespeed needs the embankment stabilising which is probably a significant amount of work, potentially with geotextiles and the like.

At least they'll get some trains running, in that case.

 

[infobleep]

I suspect it's the wet winter following a very dry summer especially if the infrastructure is built on clay.

Although not railway as such, I was talking to an insurance company who said there has been a big increase in the number of subsidence claims due to the dry summer following the wet period

 

[zwk500]

At least they'll get some trains running, in that case.

Indeed. If they can manage to get the line open to Winchfield crossovers it will be a massive improvement, as it's then only 1 station (Hook) missed out and a much shorter section of single line to squeeze the capacity through.

 

[endecotp]

I will be travelling from Poole to Edinburgh on Saturday. There are lots of choices of route, what do you all reckon I should do? Possibilities:

1. Poole - Dorchester - Bristol - Birmingham - Edinburgh
2. Poole - Southampton - Bristol - Birmingham - Edinburgh
3. Poole - Basingstoke - Reading - Birmingham - Edinburgh
4. Poole - Basingstoke - Reading - London - Edinburgh
5. Poole - Basingstoke - Woking - London - Edinburgh
6. Poole - Southampton - Havant - Guildford - London - Edinburgh
7. Poole - Southampton - Arundel - London - Edinburgh

I have the return half of a super off peak return, I think most of those are valid routes even without the current disruption, though I need to check what the restrictions are for afternoon Kings Cross departures.

 

[jfollows]

I have the return half of a super off peak return, I think most of those are valid routes even without the current disruption, though I need to check what the restrictions are for afternoon Kings Cross departures.

No restrictions on a Saturday:

Look up fares for any train journey in Britain

Full details of all British rail Single, Return & Season tickets and Travelcards. Built-in Season Ticket Calculator.

www.brfares.com

Restriction Code: 1K

Restricted Days: Mondays to Fridays

Valid routes to London (https://data.atoc.org/routeing-maps):

CW+LB
CW+LF
CW+PD
PD
SW
XR+RG
XR+WX

 

[infobleep]

Trees don't help. During the summer months they draw all the moisture from the soil and during the winter when you need the water removed the trees aren't using any.

They also block the lovely views of the countryside

Internal email. SWR are unable to show the information as a do not travel message is in place.

How interesting. I hadn't thought they would do this. Saying that when there were train strikes and they advised people not to travel they did provide a timetable summary

The few vehicles they have managed to source - a couple of single deck coaches and small minibuses from operators well outside the local area - as resilience back-up and extra capacity for the shuttle can clearly be seen parked at Woking station. A late night service home to your local station isn’t much use if you can’t travel anywhere from it the rest of the day to start with.

As for the weekend, if you actually look then the website clearly states “A rail replacement bus service will operate between Basingstoke and Woking calling at Hook, Winchfield, Fleet, Farnborough Main and Brookwood (subject to bus availability)”. Presumably using resources displaced from the planned Portsmouth Direct work that has now been postponed to facilitate the slewing of the mainline.

It then goes on to say from Monday that “After a week of no services, SWR intends to restore a limited rail service at Hook, Winchfield and Fleet stations”.

https://www.southwesternrailway.com/plan-my-journey/hook-landslip

I half expected them to simply continue with their do not travel advice

 

[Fiyero]

Would it be fair to assume that as there are major works this weekend there will be next weekend too? returning home from London (ideally to Eastleigh) on Sunday 29th and deciding whether to bite the bullet and book a coach, as I already have for my trip up this weekend

 

[swt_passenger]

Would it be fair to assume that as there are major works this weekend there will be next weekend too? returning home from London (ideally to Eastleigh) on Sunday 29th and deciding whether to bite the bullet and book a coach, as I already have for my trip up this weekend

No, AFAICT this weekend‘s work on the route is to install a temporary track layout that will then be in place for some weeks. Planned work on the 29th is supposed to be taking place on the Portsmouth route. I think I‘d probably wait until Monday to see if the temporary layout is working, however I suppose you’ll know if it’s best to book a coach early for a better fare.

 

[Fiyero]

No, AFAICT this weekend‘s work on the route is to install a temporary track layout that will then be in place for some weeks. Planned work on the 29th is supposed to be taking place on the Portsmouth route. I think I‘d probably wait until Monday to see if the temporary layout is working, however I suppose you’ll know if it’s best to book a coach early for a better fare.

Thanks, It is that dilemma of book a cheap train ticket or a cheap coach ticket or just wait and touch to go (as it is on a return from Paris so could miss connections too!)

 

[quartile]

Thanks, It is that dilemma of book a cheap train ticket or a cheap coach ticket or just wait and touch to go (as it is on a return from Paris so could miss connections too!)

You could always buy the London CIV ticket then Eurostar is bound by law to put you on a later train.

 

[fandroid]

But as far as I'm able, I'm going to avoid changing at Basingstoke. This is not the first time I've had to dash down and up those stairs and through that subway, and I'm getting a bit old for it !!!

They should put some chairs in the subway. It's quite wide and not grotty!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Jan 2023 ==

To avoid confusion about ticket validity, they should simply stop selling all "via Woking" tickets and all SWR Advance and "Evening out" tickets on the mainline from Woking to Eastleigh. Then all would be valid via Reading anyway as that's a Permitted Route.

Life would be a massively lot simpler if only Crosscountry was running the South Coast service that the customers want.

As we don't have that, SWR should be focussed entirely on running a predictable and reliable service connecting Southampton with Basingstoke. The GWR shuttles to Reading are second best to any non-stop service, but they are there, 2tph and they seem to be fairly reliable at the moment. What passengers need to know, especially those heading South, is that there will be an SWR train in Basingstoke when they expect one to be. Woking shuttles help those heading for Woking and stations between there and Clapham, but the vast majority want a London Stations service they can rely on.
It's that old Replacement Bus argument again. Passengers will accept longer journey times if there's a big problem, but they do want certainty about their journeys. There's plenty of posts on here reflecting exactly that

 

[SimonOB]

Genuinely interested as a software engineer... how would the rail network/engineers have known/found out about this? Are there sensors which would have indicated the slip? Or is it by chance that someone notified before a train went through?

Would love some info to draw parallels woth the software world.

Thanks

 

[hwl]

I guess it doesn't help when so many trees are cut down, but I have no idea if that has been a recent happening on the affected areas so it might not be that. But generally less vegetation on a slope means more erosion.

Not cutting trees down is the main issue. This isn't about erosion but structural stability. the only good place for tree near embankments is near on the flat ground near the toe with none on the embankment itself. Trees have a higher water demand in summer and lower in wither and tne to accnetualte seasonlay soil moisture levels cycles. The added weight of trees also a mayor issue that seems to

Decent grasses and wild flowers are more than capable of handling any soil erosion issues.