Woman dragged along by TPE train

[Muzer]

Breaking the event at every possible point is the best idea.

However, educating passengers is hard - you surely know how stubborn they are judging by your posts

 

[edwin_m]

There are always going to be circumstances where doors close on passengers - perhaps the passenger is deaf, or a child jumps in/out just as the doors are closing, or someone realises they are about to miss their stop. The railway provides two safeguards to prevent this becoming a more serious incident, and both failed on the day:

- The door interlock should not be made if there is an arm trapped, though it might be if a smaller object such as an item of clothing or a toddler's harness is. A gap wide enough for an arm is probably too wide to be accounted for by flexing of the edge strips, suggesting that the plug door mechanism wasn't fully home. If so the integrity of the door itself has to be open to question and had this incident not brought it to light it is possible the door might have later failed to close properly and subsequently opened at high speed.

- Whoever is doing the train safety check, apparently the guard in this case, needs to confirm not that door interlock has been obtained (so ignore the orange lights!) but that the doors have closed without trapping anything. If the platform is a concave curve this may involve taking several steps from the train so as to be able to see all of it, and if for some reason this is impossible or causes too much delay then platform staff should be provided.

There are probably many occasions where one or other of these safeguards has failed but in this instance they both did. Fortunately here there were other people around to operate the door release and alert the conductor - but these can't be relied on, for example on an early morning or late evening train with few people around. It's also possible that the person might have been able to pull her hand free before the train got too fast to run alongside or reached the end of the platform.

 

[455driver]

Breaking the event at every possible point is the best idea.

However, educating passengers is hard - you surely know how stubborn a few of them are judging by your posts

Post edited for accuracy, most passengers are fine its just a few that spoil it.

 

[Muzer]

Post edited for accuracy, most passengers are fine its just a few that spoil it.

Yes, you're completely right - I agree that most passengers are reasonable, if ignorant (when it comes to railways), people.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

TPE are notorious for dispensing with platform staff - they've previously had to reinstate them following removal after objections from the ORR - see Manchester Airport. When they do get forced to have them they use the cheapest agency ones possible.

We aren't talking a minor backwater that retained dispatchers as a hangover from slam door trains, its a hugely busy regional hub with a nightlife that is known to be lively with hazards and they still choose to pinch the pennies on dispatch staff.

More than one 'risk assessment' that has involved a conveniently cost saving removal of dispatch staff has been found to be very suspect following further investigation, it's sad that in at least one case this had to be after a CIRAS report.

We are not talking about a long intercity train snaking into the distance here. This is a 3 coach train with 6 doorways. It is not difficult for the guard to safely complete the train safety check prior to departure. Whilst I don't know the platform in question, I cannot see how, whatever platform obstacles there may be present, it would not have been possible to satisfactorily check 3 coaches.

 

[bb21]

I would like to know how her hand got stuck in a train door which has a hustle alarm and signs saying you shouldnt try to board the train while the doors are closing! i mean people need signs for everything these days dont they!:roll:

oops silly me that would mean the initial problem was the passengers fault wouldnt it, although it should not have been possible to gain interlock and move the train if the passenger had followed the rules the rest of the scenario would not have happened would it!

Because some passengers are complete morons, there is more a case for there to be safeguards in place. Some people just won't listen or learn whatever happens, and some are just plain selfish. If everyone behaved sensibly then situations like this would never happen so there would be no need for such safeguards to be put in place. The railway industry cannot sit back and just say, "Oh, well. It's their own fault." That would be negligence.

In most incidents of this nature, there are always multiple contributory factors. Let's not turn this into a blame game.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
As tempting as it might be, let's not start apportioning blame yet. I can think of a number of things that may have happened, so let's wait until the full report comes out. Until then, unless anyone has anything significant to add to the topic, it is locked.