Work,life,financial balance.

[Bumblerail]

I have just retired after 31 years driving trains for BR (Southern,Western) Thames,FGW and GWR. When I joined you did so basically for one of two reasons. You either followed in the family tradition or your were an enthusiast. The money was poor but it was a sound job for life. Now it's different, the financial rewards are substantial but the potential impact on health, family time and friendships in potentially destructive. I would not wish to deter anyone from following their dream but please think hard if chasing the dollar is you're main objective objective. Yes you'll have money to live a good standard of living but the battering of alternating shifts can and does have an impact on health. You'll have time to see your children grow if you're not in bef for an 0300 start but barbecues with friends and regular football, well think again. Go for it but please it's not Eden and whilst it has benefits it can be punishing. I left SPAD free so was under little pressure but many Drivers who have bad luck at the start of their career are often looking over their shoulder. I implore people to do your homework before going for this, if you do and it's still for you I wish you all the best but don't forsake health, friendships and happiness for your bank account. I enjoyed driving trains but I'm glad I'm out now. It's much harder at 57 than it was at 25.

 

[Snow1964]

A lot has changed in 30-40 years.
I haven’t worked on the railways, but I am 57 and over the years little changes mean balance of life and work changes.

As an example, my first 2 jobs (part time whilst a student) in 1980s had proper canteen, and tea breaks and hour for lunch were religiously observed as those who had started in 1950s or 1960s expected it. None of this modern eating and drinking at your desk.

When you finished for the day, that was it, weren’t expected to take home paperwork or some electronic device to keep in touch.

There was also at least one company provided and paid for event, be it a works outing, a Christmas party, a sports trip or whatever.

My part time job in a supermarket in 1980s occasionally meant seasonal restocking, which was 6 hours on a Sunday (paid as 12 hours, because always got double pay on Sundays), how many shops now pay double on Sundays ?

Nowadays pay is better, but stresses are often higher, responsibilities higher, and many employers seem to have blurred work and personal time by expecting work to be taken home, or having staff on call for free.

I commuted to central London for best part of 30 years, then got laid off, but found a local job (paying less), but got made redundant during the pandemic when company became insolvent. Have opted to draw down one of my company pensions to provide some cash as don’t want the hassle of modern full time work, it just burns you out.

 

[Lancy99]

I have just retired after 31 years driving trains for BR (Southern,Western) Thames,FGW and GWR. When I joined you did so basically for one of two reasons. You either followed in the family tradition or your were an enthusiast. The money was poor but it was a sound job for life. Now it's different, the financial rewards are substantial but the potential impact on health, family time and friendships in potentially destructive. I would not wish to deter anyone from following their dream but please think hard if chasing the dollar is you're main objective objective. Yes you'll have money to live a good standard of living but the battering of alternating shifts can and does have an impact on health. You'll have time to see your children grow if you're not in bef for an 0300 start but barbecues with friends and regular football, well think again. Go for it but please it's not Eden and whilst it has benefits it can be punishing. I left SPAD free so was under little pressure but many Drivers who have bad luck at the start of their career are often looking over their shoulder. I implore people to do your homework before going for this, if you do and it's still for you I wish you all the best but don't forsake health, friendships and happiness for your bank account. I enjoyed driving trains but I'm glad I'm out now. It's much harder at 57 than it was at 25.

Top post. I’m coming up to retirement myself and can certainly echo what is said above. The amount of things you miss over the years is frightening looking back now. The job is fantastic and financially ok but comes at a price.

 

[wobman]

Top post. I’m coming up to retirement myself and can certainly echo what is said above. The amount of things you miss over the years is frightening looking back now. The job is fantastic and financially ok but comes at a price.

I know many drivers with lifestyle illnesses that have been brought on by the shift patterns of the job, it definitely is bad for your health being a driver.
People start and say I've worked shifts before and I reply not these kind of shift patterns, after a few months they come to me and say I understand what you mean now !

 

[ComUtoR]

You'll have time to see your children grow if you're not in bef for an 0300 start

The kids think I tend to see it more as a benefit. Granted it can feel like you never see them but as a Parent, I saw myself standing in the school playground more often than not. Many complaints about a 9-5 life is that you don't see the kids or just see them that tiny bit before bed. I always say that I was one of the few Dads in the playground on a regular basis. I missed a couple of sports days but I generally gained more than I lost.

but barbecues with friends and regular football, well think again.

The social thing is hard because everyone else is on a 9-5 Mon-Friday but friends understand and now they see it as the norm. But yes, it can be hard to balance.

I implore people to do your homework before going for this, if you do and it's still for you I wish you all the best but don't forsake health, friendships

Shift work is also a major cause of Divorce. A good relationship takes both people (or more for the modern generation) Many make it work but its an often forgotten discussion point.

and happiness for your bank account.

Much and part of the work/life balance is money. Money gives you opportunity and stability. It can reduce the burden on the household and provide children with a healthy start in life. Financial situations are different for everyone and I see many Drivers working rest days and pushing retirement further back because they are funding their children. This is a good thing in some respects as the wage level can provide that little extra. Finances are very personal and good money doesn't always mean a good life.

I enjoyed driving trains but I'm glad I'm out now. It's much harder at 57 than it was at 25.

Lots of younger people in the grade now. Make the money, pay the mortgage early, retire early. But yes, harder in the twilight years....

 

[baz962]

I suppose it all depends. I got my key at 48 , turned 52 last week. I have no problems getting up , although the earliest turn at my depot is almost 5 am. Of course with the commute I'm up around 2 , but I don't find that a problem and I love getting home by 1pm. Even working a couple of rest days , I feel like I'm home a lot more than I was in any other job . And that's every other shift pattern I have done , including Monday to Friday. I miss the odd family do , but with the long weekend every third week I find that friends and family are prepared to work around my shift or wait until my long weekend or annual leave. Always find a way.

 

[Towers]

Of course, back in the old days some blokes supposedly pretty much lived at their depots, working endless overtime day in, day out. The modern industry, and the introduction Hidden etc, have at least eradicated that. For those types their work/life balance under today's rules would be an awful lot better!!

Totally agree though that shiftwork, and particularly in a job with a high reqiurement to be alert and aware, is punishing.

 

[Bumblerail]

Society has a much more intense demand on a round the clock train service today. When I started at Guildford in 1990 we had 1 early job booking on before 0500, granted not much berthed there in those days. When I left Reading this year there are about 10 jobs signing on between 0300 and 0400 although there has always been a TMD and railcare facility meaning trains had to be bought into service. Turns have an intensity to them that I don't think was there years ago although that may be age making them seem that way. As stated above having a partner who is onside really helps and my Mrs has dealt with all the lonely nights etc brilliantly and it did let me have quality time as my daughter grew up. It's a good call, pay off mortgage early and retire early, I did it and am learning to relax again but how many young drivers have massive financial commitments and are caning rest days because they can't live without it?. Some I fear won't ever get to retire and if they drop dead at 45 the railway will just recruit another person to start the circle all over again. We fought for years for better working conditions and pay. Got the pay but what Drivers are doing out there is far worse than when I started

 

[Jon1930]

Since start of 2021 I've just been working my basic 4 days a week and I do permanent afternoons, I feel I'm at home alot and get to spend plenty of time with kids and family, long weekends I usually catch up with friends. Maybe the guys who work every rest day and Sunday they can and stop over for 12 as much as possible dont have a good work life balance.

 

[Fran1878]

I've recently put an application in with Northern (Liverpool). Does anybody have any insight on their shift patterns? I've seen a few people mention here they work 4 days a weeks etc but wanted to check if anyone had any info on Northern specifically. As somebody who will be looking to hopefully have a child in the not too distant future I was wondering what a role with Northern is like regarding family/social commitments.

 

[SWR_DRIVER]

Having been on the railway for 5 years (as a guard and driver), I agree and disagree with parts of your post.

Coming from a retail background, the work life balance doing an average 4 day week as a train driver is absolutely incredible. I have way more time to do things that are important to me, and I especially find that a mixture of early and late shifts allow me to do activities during the daytime when it's generally quieter and less busy with people (doing a food shop, going to the gym etc). Though on the flip side, I do agree that I can be detrimental in terms of events like parties, bbq's, weekend get togethers etc. But I still get way more weekends off on the railway than I ever did in retail.

I'm a strong believer that most health impacts of shift work can be negated with just a bit of effort and forward planning. There's plenty of train crew that don't take any regard for their physical health whatsoever. Exercising, eating well, limiting alcohol intake and going to bed at the proper time etc make a huge difference in managing shift work. 5 years in and I'm currently the healthiest, strongest (and happiest) I've ever been.

 

[wobman]

Having been on the railway for 5 years (as a guard and driver), I agree and disagree with parts of your post.

Coming from a retail background, the work life balance doing an average 4 day week as a train driver is absolutely incredible. I have way more time to do things that are important to me, and I especially find that a mixture of early and late shifts allow me to do activities during the daytime when it's generally quieter and less busy with people (doing a food shop, going to the gym etc). Though on the flip side, I do agree that I can be detrimental in terms of events like parties, bbq's, weekend get togethers etc. But I still get way more weekends off on the railway than I ever did in retail.

I'm a strong believer that most health impacts of shift work can be negated with just a bit of effort and forward planning. There's plenty of train crew that don't take any regard for their physical health whatsoever. Exercising, eating well, limiting alcohol intake and going to bed at the proper time etc make a huge difference in managing shift work. 5 years in and I'm currently the healthiest, strongest (and happiest) I've ever been.

It's very dependent on what depot and toc you work for, 2am starts on 9hr shifts and night shifts don't make it easy to get 8hrs sleep I can assure you.
I've done 20yrs on the railways and I know of other depots were the early shifts start at 5am and later finish is 11pm.

Before taking a drivers job it certainly is advisable to do your research, after a 1am wake up and 9hr shift of 7hrs intensive driving I'm knackered for the day. But a 8am start on a 7hr job I'm OK for the gym or bike ride. I take the rough with the smooth personally.

 

[4F89]

I have a much better work life balance now, rather than hammering 75+ hour weeks, I can only do 60, plenty of rest days, and can actually afford to do stuff with my time off. The wife and kid have never seen so much of me!

It all depends where u have come from. 20 years of graft in factories and warehouses is going to take much more of a toll on your body.

 

[Ken H]

At least driving a train you cant take your work home with you or even on holiday. i hear of office staff being pressured to going online to do work stuff in the evening, days off, while on the sick or even on holiday.
But bus and train driving is very sedentary, more than office work, I think. (Never done either) I imaging keeping a bit fit can be a struggle.

 

[krus_aragon]

At least driving a train you cant take your work home with you or even on holiday.

You say that, but stories of train drivers hitching a caravan to their loco and heading off on holiday were reported one April a few years ago...

See https://2d53.co.uk/llanfairpg/caravan.htm

 

[ComUtoR]

At least driving a train you cant take your work home with you or even on holiday.

I have an interim assessment this week. Plenty of revision at home and preparation for the assessment. Had a 'safety day' last week and needed to get my phone and other people phones updated, delay reports etc. Plenty of stuff done in your own time.

 

[dmncf]

Now it's different, the financial rewards are substantial but the potential impact on health, family time and friendships in potentially destructive.

Over the past 30 years the financial rewards have undeniably improved. But over the past 30 years, has it become a worse job for your health and work/life balance?
I am surprised to hear this, as I would have expected the opposite based on newer trains, increased safety focus, and strong unions.

 

[ComUtoR]

Over the past 30 years the financial rewards have undeniably improved. But over the past 30 years, has it become a worse job for your health and work/life balance?

30yrs ago you would book on, head to the social club, drink a few pints, London and back, drink a few pints, then go home. 30yrs later you book on, work solid for 6hrs, 30min pnb, work solid, book off at 01XX and then do it all over again 12hrs later.

The job has changed, money had improved but the jolly up has ceased.

 

[387star]

Yes looking forward to being mortgage free in a few years. You never know what's round the corner and it's good to have options
My depot and company are pretty great though and far less punishing than some. I'd also suggest you shorten your commute as much as possible. Pay off that mortgage then go part time if you need to. The 5 day weekends are great for operas concerts exhibitions and travelling and that's worth the most to me oh and free travel...

 

[Horizon22]

Society has a much more intense demand on a round the clock train service today. When I started at Guildford in 1990 we had 1 early job booking on before 0500, granted not much berthed there in those days. When I left Reading this year there are about 10 jobs signing on between 0300 and 0400 although there has always been a TMD and railcare facility meaning trains had to be bought into service. Turns have an intensity to them that I don't think was there years ago although that may be age making them seem that way. As stated above having a partner who is onside really helps and my Mrs has dealt with all the lonely nights etc brilliantly and it did let me have quality time as my daughter grew up. It's a good call, pay off mortgage early and retire early, I did it and am learning to relax again but how many young drivers have massive financial commitments and are caning rest days because they can't live without it?. Some I fear won't ever get to retire and if they drop dead at 45 the railway will just recruit another person to start the circle all over again. We fought for years for better working conditions and pay. Got the pay but what Drivers are doing out there is far worse than when I started

Reading is certainly an intense depot, especially for those on the starter link. As you mention the demands for earlier trains and later at night requires more movements.

Applications for drivers attract thousands, so companies can easily select people who will fit the right mould and understand the difficulties & sacrifices that come with the role. Not sure how many have “massive financial commitments” but being a 30 year old is harder than it was 30 years ago due to a range of economic changes that nobody has had direct control over.

Yes looking forward to being mortgage free in a few years. You never know what's round the corner and it's good to have options
My depot and company are pretty great though and far less punishing than some. I'd also suggest you shorten your commute as much as possible. Pay off that mortgage then go part time if you need to. The 5 day weekends are great for operas concerts exhibitions and travelling and that's worth the most to me oh and free travel...

Oh yes some don’t help themselves with shift work by living a considerable commute anyway. For new starters it’s becoming harder (especially drivers with 45/60 min rule) to live miles away but it plays a role.

 

[O L Leigh]

I found it quite depressing one year when the pay talks were happening to hear colleagues saying that they would be prepared to do whatever provided the company pay them for it. I couldn’t quite believe what I was hearing. Our basic certainly wasn’t very good but that was balanced by having good conditions (including the ability to easily boost your income); conditions that these colleagues were happy to wave away in exchange for an uplift.

For me, conditions are king. Having a fat bank balance is all well and good, but it’s not so great if you’re too knackered to use it. I try to manage myself in such a way that I get as much of the benefits without incurring too many costs. I swap for regular lates which suits me better, and I live modestly so that I have no need to work rest days and can enjoy time at home or pursuing leisure activities. I’ve found a balance that works for me.

 

[Carl98k]

I think it depends what your previous job was. I deliver petrol to Bp and my day shift starts between 03:00 and 04:00. And night shift starts around 16:00. Both 12 hour shifts. After my 5 or 6 days I’m quite tired. The most difficult part is switching between days and nights. Some guys swap shifts so they can stay on either shift permanently.

I also work 4 weekends on the bounce then get 4 off. So I average a 4 day week. So I echo what others have said about pros and cons of shift work.

I wonder how someone who’s done a 9-5 job would adapt. Before my current job I was in the Royal Marines for 12 years, and unless I was away I had lots of time off. It definitely took my a while to adjust to shift work.

 

[Crazyb]

30yrs ago you would book on, head to the social club, drink a few pints, London and back, drink a few pints, then go home. 30yrs later you book on, work solid for 6hrs, 30min pnb, work solid, book off at 01XX and then do it all over again 12hrs later.

The job has changed, money had improved but the jolly up has ceased.

I can't believe that...lol. I never went to the pub on a ballast turn!!!!

 

[class 9]

At least driving a train you cant take your work home with you or even on holiday. i hear of office staff being pressured to going online to do work stuff in the evening, days off, while on the sick or even on holiday.
But bus and train driving is very sedentary, more than office work, I think. (Never done either) I imaging keeping a bit fit can be a struggle.

It's true that you don't take you work home as a Driver, although home life is affected prior to being on duty, there won't be many office staff that have to worry about any alcohol intake the day before.

 

[Bertone]

It's true that you don't take you work home as a Driver, although home life is affected prior to being on duty, there won't be many office staff that have to worry about any alcohol intake the day before.

Noted but don’t quite agree as working in a safety critical industry - a Signalling Design office, we were subject to random drugs and alcohol testing at any time of the working day.
In my company, if tested “positive“, your employment was likely to be terminated.

 

[scotraildriver]

There are hundreds of jobs which are subject to random drug and alcohol testing. Construction sites, virtually any driving job, NHS staff, factories etc. This list is endless.

 

[Balloonthief]

Thanks for all these points guys.
As someone who is potentially going to join as a driver I really appreciate the honest comments.
Given the fact the (Scottish) government plan to make Sunday part of the working week, do you think this will make things better or worse in the long term? I currently work weekends as part of my working week and I don't particularly mind it. The main negative I see about the driver job is the constantly changing start times which will make planning school drop offs/pick ups difficult.

 

[Towers]

There's no absolutely no doubt that you'll need to make alternative plans for at least one end of the school day on pretty much every shift, in some cases probably both ends!

 

[ComUtoR]

Given the fact the (Scottish) government plan to make Sunday part of the working week, do you think this will make things better or worse in the long term?

Better.

I work with Sundays inside. I work a 4 day week, so I get 3 days off guaranteed each week. (Not all TOCs work like that)

With Sundays outside, it's considered as additional to your working week. So if it came inside then you work 1 day less. That's better any way you skin it. It will also take away the politics of shift swapping or blowing in a Sunday. Trying to get things covered makers life at work difficult. Knowing your working pattern in advance may be a little inflexible but it can make planning a lot easier. Again, this just seems better.

 

[Horizon22]

Better.

I work with Sundays inside. I work a 4 day week, so I get 3 days off guaranteed each week. (Not all TOCs work like that)

With Sundays outside, it's considered as additional to your working week. So if it came inside then you work 1 day less. That's better any way you skin it. It will also take away the politics of shift swapping or blowing in a Sunday. Trying to get things covered makers life at work difficult. Knowing your working pattern in advance may be a little inflexible but it can make planning a lot easier. Again, this just seems better.

Also it would hopefully normalise Sunday working as something that is just done. As you say, it makes it easier to plan and whilst doing more weekends might be more “antisocial” more days off in the week certainly has its benefits too.