Worthing-Chatham via Tonbridge & Strood - why no fares?

[southernyoshi]

Does as it says - why is NRE saying that there are no return fares available for this route when all the trains involved are running? It's displaying singles but not returns. What's happening to it?

 

[Romilly]

Without checking, I don't know the answer to your question. My guess, though, would be that it's to do with what routes are permitted by the Routeing Guide for a Worthing-Chatham ticket. It probably means that via Tonbridge is not a permitted route for that ticket, with the result that you have to split the journey into parts and buy separate tickets for each part if you want to take that route.

For example, you can get a Worthing-Cuxton offpeak day return valid via Tonbridge for £20.50, and a Cuxton-Chatham offpeak day return is £3.70.

 

[dzug2]

Whilst it can be persuaded - with difficulty - to show that routing and a single fare, closer inspection of the single fare shows it is in fact two tickets

 

[southernyoshi]

But BRfares displays a £13.55 return fare, with NOT VIA LONDON restriction.

 

[Clip]

But BRfares displays a £13.55 return fare, with NOT VIA LONDON restriction.

I cant even see that fare on there
plus why would you want to go that route rather than via Clapham?

 

[postye]

I cant even see that fare on there
plus why would you want to go that route rather than via Clapham?

The £13.55 fare is a railcard discounted fare

 

[Clip]

good thinking batman. Must be a reason to go via Tonbridge/strood though I cant think what

 

[Romilly]

But BRfares displays a £13.55 return fare, with NOT VIA LONDON restriction.

But, as already said, that fare is valid only with a railcard, and only for "not via London" routes that are permitted routes for the ticket. Just because a route is not via London doesn't mean that it is a permitted route for this ticket. Again, as already said, the booking engines offer routes via Clapham Junction and Denmark Hill for the "not via London" ticket.

 

[southernyoshi]

I fess it's not valid because of needing to double back twice - at Redhill & Strood. Thanks anyway

 

[Romilly]

I don't think that what happens at Redhill and Strood on a Worthing-Tonbridge-Chatham journey amounts to doubling-back for ticketing purposes. Although you may leave a station by initially retracing your tracks, you don't pass through any station twice (which is what counts as doubling-back for ticketing purposes). I think it's simply the case that whoever set the fares decided, for whatever reason, that via Tonbridge should not be a permitted route for a Worthing-Chatham-not-via-London ticket.

But as I said earlier in the thread, if you want to travel via Tonbridge in both directions then splitting your tickets at e.g. Cuxton will give you the route you want at the added cost of 66% of £3.70 (assuming you have a railcard).

 

[southernyoshi]

Doesn't make much sense, as it's surely the most direct non-London route. Also you say the official non-London route is via Clapham & Denmark Hill - where are they if not London?

 

[mikeg]

'via London' and 'not via London' refer to the main london stations. Clapham Junction and denmark hill may be in London for ordinary geography, but for ticketing purposes they're not.

 

[30907]

Doesn't make much sense, as it's surely the most direct non-London route. Also you say the official non-London route is via Clapham & Denmark Hill - where are they if not London?

My immediate reaction was - via Tonbridge must be the shortest NOT LONDON route, but in fact it's a couple of miles longer than via Crystal Palace and Beckenham Jn.

I must say I would be very surprised if anyone thought to query it in practice.

 

[southernyoshi]

Does that mean it fails the Routing guide?
And does that last line mean you think any guard would just ok it anyway?

 

[30907]

Not being a resident expert, I hesitate, but I THINK the 3-mile rule requires a mapped route.

Without getting the maps out again, I'd be almost certain that for Redhill-Strood, via Tonbridge is as short a route as any and permitted. Indeed, IIRC there was a regular direct service for some years.

That being so, I'd expect most staff to think that Redhill-Chatham via Tonbridge was also a permitted route. And I would use it myself.

 

[southernyoshi]

So could it be that coming from Worthing somehow causes it to fail? Can't see how as I've been to Maidstone via Redhill/Tonbridge before. And presumably if it is valid I can come in via Tonbridge & back via Denmark Hill, useful as the hourly Strood-Tonbridge times aren't very convenient.

 

[30907]

So could it be that coming from Worthing somehow causes it to fail? Can't see how as I've been to Maidstone via Redhill/Tonbridge before. And presumably if it is valid I can come in via Tonbridge & back via Denmark Hill, useful as the hourly Strood-Tonbridge times aren't very convenient.

No sorry for confusion. I was using Redhill as proxy for "Worthing and stations south of Redhill generally" (my guess would be anywhere from Warblington to Polegate would have the same routeing). And yes, Denmark Hill and Clapham Jn one way is fine, or Herne Hill and East Croydon, whatever NRE can produce for you.

 

[southernyoshi]

So Worthing-Redhill-Tonbridge-Strood-Chatham-Lewisham-Denmark Hill-Clapham-Worthing would be alright on the £13.55 non-London fare? Makes sense as if you'd bought the ticket without using an online planner, common sense would take you via Tonbridge.

 

[Clip]

So Worthing-Redhill-Tonbridge-Strood-Chatham-Lewisham-Denmark Hill-Clapham-Worthing would be alright on the £13.55 non-London fare? Makes sense as if you'd bought the ticket without using an online planner, common sense would take you via Tonbridge.

Im soirry but common sense would always be to go to Clapham and change there I simply wouldn't know why you would want to do it in the way you suggest

 

[paul1609]

I doubt anybody would query the Tonbridge Route but on the standard off peak serviice you'd have to change at Gatwick Airport, Redhill, To bridge, Paddock Wood and Strood. The connection at Tonbridge I is usually awful it just misses the other train. Both Redhill to Tonbridge and Paddock Wood are only 1tph I doubt many people travelling that way.

 

[southernyoshi]

Uh? My timetable has trains arriving from Redhill at xx:48, & leaving Tonbridge at xx:04?