Wrexham Central - why?

[Bletchleyite]

Given how tight things are to do an hourly (or half hourly) service on the branch, I'd be inclined to agree it should be closed and services cut back to General, which isn't vastly less central than Central is and thus no shuttle bus is really needed. However before doing this I'd wait for a decision on Merseyrail taking over the route, because it may then make more sense to rebuild it into a 2-platform terminus for them rather than close it. Having said that if General is being developed, that could instead have provision for two 150m-ish terminal platforms with Merseyrail in mind.

TBH I'm surprised BR didn't close it rather than move it.

 

[lachlan]

Perhaps given two units are already vacant, the retail park should be rebuilt and the track extended again, bringing more people within walking distance of a station.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Given that shop 2 units to the left/right (whichever side you stand on) are vacant, probably worth the demolition work.

And the area could do with redevelopment too.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Perhaps given two units are already vacant, the retail park should be rebuilt and the track extended again, bringing more people within walking distance of a station.

If they did they'd probably need to make it a two track terminus. As things are, you can't do a reliable hourly service with two units (which would be worse were the line longer), but if you add a third you can't operate clockface at all because the two end stations are single track, and you have the further constraint at Bidston of not being able to have a layover longer than about 13 minutes because it isn't a dedicated platform.

 

[emoaconr]

The passenger data for Central is misleading. Guards largely sell tickets to 'Wrexham General' only. There is a high level of fare evasion from Central, despite a ticket machine. For Bidston services, Central is absolutely busier than General platform 4.

 

[Steve B]

The passenger data for Central is misleading. Guards largely sell tickets to 'Wrexham General' only. There is a high level of fare evasion from Central, despite a ticket machine. For Bidston services, Central is absolutely busier than General platform 4.

I would concur with that, and indeed there was a time when I bought a ticket at Central from the machine only to find that it was printed as being from General! I may be mistaken but aren't the fares the same anyway?

 

[6Gman]

Given how tight things are to do an hourly (or half hourly) service on the branch, I'd be inclined to agree it should be closed and services cut back to General, which isn't vastly less central than Central is and thus no shuttle bus is really needed. However before doing this I'd wait for a decision on Merseyrail taking over the route, because it may then make more sense to rebuild it into a 2-platform terminus for them rather than close it. Having said that if General is being developed, that could instead have provision for two 150m-ish terminal platforms with Merseyrail in mind.

TBH I'm surprised BR didn't close it rather than move it.

Funnily enough, in my days in the Forward Planning section of LM Regional Headquarters I worked on a scheme to investigate curtailing the service at General.

It didn't make sense so it went no further.

(Though circumstances may have changed - it was a long time ago!)

 

[Bletchleyite]

Funnily enough, in my days in the Forward Planning section of LM Regional Headquarters I worked on a scheme to investigate curtailing the service at General.

It didn't make sense so it went no further.

In what way didn't it make sense? Was the service pattern different in those days, so you didn't have the "59 minutes end to end" issue?

 

[6Gman]

In what way didn't it make sense? Was the service pattern different in those days, so you didn't have the "59 minutes end to end" issue?

It was a long time ago and I cannot remember the details of the timetable at that point, but the potential lost revenue far outweighed any savings made. (At that stage the issue was finance rather than service reliability.)

 

[stuu]

Never been there so had a look on streetview - very unusual having a station in the middle of a retail park like that - is it unique?

 

[rich.davies]

Never been there so had a look on streetview - very unusual having a station in the middle of a retail park like that - is it unique?

It used to go as far as where the Iceland Food Warehouse now stands before the area got redeveloped into a retail park.

 

[richard_S]

At Bidston there is room for a dedicated platform on the south side of the station. By doing that trains for Wrexham would not affect the line. At Wrexham central extend the line along the original route putting stations at Hightown halt and Marchwiel where they were originally then continuing along and round to the industrial estate with a new station there. At Wrexham general there is room for a platform opposite platform 3. If that was reinstated It would give room for a Chester to Wrexham industrial estate service. Obviously the tracks to the north of the station would need altering.

 

[6Gman]

At Bidston there is room for a dedicated platform on the south side of the station. By doing that trains for Wrexham would not affect the line. At Wrexham central extend the line along the original route putting stations at Hightown halt and Marchwiel where they were originally then continuing along and round to the industrial estate with a new station there. At Wrexham general there is room for a platform opposite platform 3. If that was reinstated It would give room for a Chester to Wrexham industrial estate service. Obviously the tracks to the north of the station would need altering.

Are you aware of how much development there has been along the route since the line closed?

 

[richard_S]

Are you aware of how much development there has been along the route since the line closed?

Not a great deal. Most of the embankments are still there. Brook street is where the most buildings are. There is room to go down the side of Iceland.

 

[6Gman]

Not a great deal. Most of the embankments are still there. Brook street is where the most buildings are. There is room to go down the side of Iceland.

The "room to go down the side of Iceland" appears to be about twenty feet in width, with the building wall on one side and a sheer drop on the other side.

Good luck building a new railway through that!

 

[rich.davies]

You'd need to build a viaduct now, a high one if that. Can't see the planners or us residents being best pleased..

 

[richard_S]

The "room to go down the side of Iceland" appears to be about twenty feet in width, with the building wall on one side and a sheer drop on the other side.

Good luck building a new railway through that!

Plenty of room for a single track.

 

[The Planner]

Plenty of room for a single track.

What about building it as @6Gman said?

 

[Statto]

Main issue is the line itself is painfully slow, think the line 60mph max & the line around Dee Marsh is around 20mph to 25mph, if the line was upgraded to at least 90mph, that would help speeding up the trains (certainly on the Shotton - Bidston section), but some suggestions have been for Merseyrail to be extended to Shotton & Wrexham, Merseyrail 777s are 60mph max, so still issues with lie speed

 

[6Gman]

Plenty of room for a single track.

I'm not a civils man but given Iceland would need space to access their wall for maintenance purposes and building a railway next to a sheer drop on the other side would restrict access I really don't think it would be practical.

And that's before you consider the area immediately south of that location, where you have two roads to cross and buildings in the way!

 

[AlastairFraser]

Main issue is the line itself is painfully slow, think the line 60mph max & the line around Dee Marsh is around 20mph to 25mph, if the line was upgraded to at least 90mph, that would help speeding up the trains (certainly on the Shotton - Bidston section), but some suggestions have been for Merseyrail to be extended to Shotton & Wrexham, Merseyrail 777s are 60mph max, so still issues with lie speed

777s are 75 mph, only 62mph on battery.