Yeovil Pen Mill - Birchwood (Warrington)

[Pen Mill]

Last week I did a round trip from YVP to Warrington Bank Quay for 59.80 Off Peak with a senior railcard.
I wish to do a similar trip next month but finishing at Birchwood.

If I do BWD direct the price I'm getting is £120+ , however , If I do YVP-Man Picc at £61.50 Off Peak return + a Man Picc-BWD anytime return at £6.50 Total is £68.00

However , if I book YVP-Warrington Central , I come back to £59.80

Question , Is routing via Manchester Piccadilly valid and can I come up & leave short at Birchwood on a Warrington Central ticket?

It struck me when I was en-route that the XC train I took from Bristol to Birmingham New Street as part of last week's trip actually went through to Man Picc .

 

[exile]

Birchwood has no barriers and often no ticket checkers, and even if there were they're unlikely to stop you. The problem will be on the London-Manchester leg. I'll leave it to the experts to say whether it's a valid route, I believe it depends on the restrictions on the ticket you buy as well as the routeing guide. Obviously, if you go to Warrington first you'll have to get another ticket to Birchwood.

I believe websites are not allowed to offer split tickets hence it offers you singles when a direct return fare doesn't exist hence the huge price. I think what the rail industry is trying to tell you is "go by car".

 

[OwlMan]

Your fare of £120+ is via London. The fare for "Not London" off peak return from Pen Mill to Birchwood with senior railcard is £59.80

Peter

 

[exile]

I tried both NRES and an online vendor and no return fares were offered, only singles, which I think is what the OP found and why he's asking if he can use a return to Warrington instead.

 

[Pen Mill]

I tried both NRES and an online vendor and no return fares were offered, only singles, which I think is what the OP found and why he's asking if he can use a return to Warrington instead.

I've just tried again and found exactly what you say Exile.
The key for me is whether Manchester is a valid routing option.

I know BWD is unmanned but if I wanted to be strictly correct I could book YVP-Warrington Central & WAC-BWD
at 59.80+2.90 = 62.70 PROVIDED that via Manchester is valid.

The reason for this is that my father lives near Birchwood and had to spend over an hour in Warrington rush hour traffic last time.

 

[OwlMan]

The return comes up on the LM site see attached

 

[OwlMan]

You are not allowed to travel via Manchester the only valid routes from Crewe are direct and via Runcorn (walking from Runcorn - Runcorn East).
You can get to Crewe via Cheltenham, Newport or Oxford.

Peter

 

[John @ home]

Last week I did a round trip from YVP to Warrington Bank Quay for 59.80 Off Peak with a senior railcard.
I wish to do a similar trip next month but finishing at Birchwood.

If I do BWD direct the price I'm getting is £120+ , however

On the East Coast, site if you enter YVP to BWD avoiding 1072 (London Terminals), the £59.80 fare appears. For tomorrow, I see departures from Yeovil at 0941, 1205, 1406 or 1556, all with 3 changes at Bristol (TM or Parkway), Wolverhampton or Stafford, and Liverpool South Parkway. The journey takes 5hrs 43 - 6 hrs 44. The £59.80 ticket is valid by any train except those scheduled to depart Monday - Friday before 0930 by any Permitted Route avoiding London Terminals. Break of either or both legs of the journey is allowed.

 

[bnm]

The £59.80 ticket is valid by any train except those scheduled to depart Monday - Friday before 0500 by any Permitted Route avoiding London Terminals. Break of either or both legs of the journey is allowed.

Not since CrossCountry tightened the restriction back in May. YVP-BWD SVR is now restriction 2V. by any train except those scheduled to depart Monday - Friday before 0930 by any Permitted Route avoiding London Terminals.

 

[exile]

On the East Coast, site if you enter YVP to BWD avoiding 1072 (London Terminals), the £59.80 fare appears. For tomorrow, I see departures from Yeovil at 0941, 1205, 1406 or 1556, all with 3 changes at Bristol (TM or Parkway), Wolverhampton or Stafford, and Liverpool South Parkway. The journey takes 5hrs 43 - 6 hrs 44. The £59.80 ticket is valid by any train except those scheduled to depart Monday - Friday before 0500 by any Permitted Route avoiding London Terminals. Break of either or both legs of the journey is allowed.

Tried that - still nothing but singles coming up. That is, returns appear as options for the outward journey, but not for any return leg. Basically, it appears returns from YVP to BWD just aren't in the system

 

[John @ home]

Not since CrossCountry tightened the restriction back in May. YVP-BWD SVR is now restriction 2V. by any train except those scheduled to depart Monday - Friday before 0930 by any Permitted Route avoiding London Terminals.

Agreed. Sorry about that. I must have had the wrong version of the NFM CD running at the time. I will edit my earlier post.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Tried that - still nothing but singles coming up. That is, returns appear as options for the outward journey, but not for any return leg. Basically, it appears returns from YVP to BWD just aren't in the system

What date and times are you trying for the return leg of your journey?

For a hypothetical YVP - BWD journey with the outward leg tomorrow and the return leg the next day, East Coast offers the £59.80 Railcard SVR for journeys from Brichwood on the return leg at 1003, 1203, 1303 or 1603 with changes at Liverpool South Parkway, Stafford and Bristol Parkway.

Perhaps there are engineering works scheduled for the date of your proposed return leg?

 

[bnm]

Are you using the National Rail Enquiries journey planner or a trainline based booking engine (FGW, SWT, thetrainline etc), Pen Mill?

Give those a miss and use a WebTis based booking engine (East Coast, London Midland, redspottedhankey).

I can't get NRE to offer up the Not London SVR fare for YVP-BWD at all, no matter what I try! Dates, times, via points etc. All I get is either the via London fare or Singles only.

thetrainline based booking engines just say there are no tickets available for YVP-BWD!

Looks like you've found one of those 'ghost' journeys that certain journey planners and/or booking engines don't like!

 

[Pen Mill]

Are you using the National Rail Enquiries journey planner or a trainline based booking engine (FGW, SWT, thetrainline etc), Pen Mill?

Give those a miss and use a WebTis based booking engine (East Coast, London Midland, redspottedhankey).

Thanks everyone.
NRE .
I've just tried Redspottedhankey (love that !)
I'm getting a viable route for £59.80 (acceptable) via Wolves & Liverpool South Parkway... this is good as it doesn't involve a cross town walk as in Warrington (15 mins) or Runcorn (1hr 25 mins).

I'm sorry for not understanding the other stuff (bnm) such as SVR or restriction 2V (is this railspeak ?).
So is Liverpool South Parkway a valid routing option ?

EDIT:
Going by the this price (same as WBQ & WAC) it would seem that Birchwood falls into "Warrington Stations" , how can you find this piece of information out please ?

 

[bnm]

My apologies for the 'railspeak'. I should know better.

SVR = Off Peak Return (formerly known as Saver Return). The name was changed a few years ago but the three letter ticket type code wasn't. :roll:

2V = Is the restriction code relevant to the Yeovil Pen Mill (YVP) - Birchwood (BWD) Off Peak Return (route: Not London). There are many ticket restrictions and each one has a two digit code.

The text for these codes (and finding the relevant code) are not the easiest things to find. They are slightly buried on the National Rail Enquiries website, and in your case will be even harder to find because NRE doesn't think your ticket even exists!

So rather than provide you with a list of all restrictions (unless you want one!) attached below is the text for '2V'.

If the booking engine you used routes you via Liverpool South Parkway then it is a permitted route.

 

[John @ home]

I'm getting a viable route for £59.80 (acceptable) via Wolves & Liverpool South Parkway

Good. The £59.80 Railcard Off-Peak Return can be bought at Yeovil Pen Mill booking office immediately before travel. The booking office opening times are Monday-Friday 07:00-14:25 & 15:30-18:20; Saturday 06:50-14:20; Sunday 14:15-16:40.

I'm sorry for not understanding ... SVR or restriction 2V (is this railspeak ?).

Sorry, yes. SVR is the abbreviation for Off-Peak Return. Perhaps you can tell that until a few years ago it was called Saver Return!

2V is the code for the time restrictions applying to this ticket. Until recently the relevant code was 8X. Click on the links for details.

So is Liverpool South Parkway a valid routing option ?

The journey planners certainly think so. If it gives you additional assurance, ask at the booking office for a printed itinerary when you buy your ticket.

it would seem that Birchwood falls into "Warrington Stations" , how can you find this piece of information out please?

Not quite. The list of Group Stations for routeing purposes is part of the National Routeing Guide. There is a separate list of station groups for ticketing purposes. Birchwood is a member of neither Warrington Group nor Warrington Stations, but for many journeys the fare to/from Birchwood is the same as that to/from Warrington Stations.

 

[exile]

Finally got it - redspottedhanky. However if as I normally do, I'd started at NRES I wouldn't have had a clue there was a fare for this journey.

 

[Pen Mill]

Thanks for all the information , much appreciated
Ron