You can finally spend a penny at Shipley! (Old station building turned into toilets and waiting room)

[johntea]

This feels like it should have happened about a million years ago to be honest! (Although ironically it mentions an old toilet block was restored to make this happen, not sure when that closed!)

Derelict building at Shipley Station is restored to provide new toilet facilities

A DERELICT building has been restored at Shipley Station as Northern continues its work to make the rail network more accessible by providing new…

www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk

A DERELICT building has been restored at Shipley Station as Northern continues its work to make the rail network more accessible by providing new facilities.

Accessible toilets and a new waiting room are now open to the public.

Northern restored a derelict toilet block on platform five to house the new facilities, while keeping its heritage features.
The new toilets, which will be free of charge, have been furnished with high-quality materials and plumbing systems and are fully accessible for all customers.
Baby changing facilities are also now available.
New automatic doors have also been installed for people with additional mobility needs.
The new waiting room has seating as well as CCTV and a Customer Information System (CIS).

 

[Bigman]

Not before time. Much needed, especially if you have been to the KWVR Beer Festival and are changing trains to get to Guiseley.

 

[yorksrob]

I definitely applaud this move.

I remember once in my naivety getting off a 333 there to use the loo (the one on the 333 was out of use) only to be told that they didn't have toilets on stations on the route as the trains were supposed to have them !

There are many train companies that should follow this example.

 

[Seehof]

There are many people who, for various reasons, do need to use a toilet more frequently and are very grateful for such moves.

 

[Neptune]

It’s especially been a problem since Bradford Clowncil closed the toilets in the town centre a few years back. Asda or Costa are the only options up there now.

 

[30907]

This feels like it should have happened about a million years ago to be honest! (Although ironically it mentions an old toilet block was restored to make this happen, not sure when that closed!)

1970s? The main building was restored in the late 90s - I suspect partly due to the influence of a Shipley-born Northern Spirit manager - butvI am not sure what facilities of sny sort there were invthe interim.

 

[MarkRedon]

Brilliant news. Even better: you don't need to find a penny or spend a single sou - they're free.

The development of railways seems sometimes glacially slow. But my first experiences of Shipley were of the slow reverse beyond the station that characterised stopping services between Skipton and Leeds before the building of platform 1. In the early 80's, I could be the only non-railway employee passenger on the first train towards Leeds. Since when:

• Platform 1 making stopping direct Leeds - Skipton trains possible - no reversal.
• Bidirectional single platform for Forster Square - Skipton trains, easing interchange. There are moderately significant passenger flows between the Airedale and Wharfedale lines, particularly for Baildon passengers heading towards Leeds.
• Airedale electrification.
• Gradual improvement to the station itself.
• Much better service frequencies. In the early 80's, one train an hour Leeds - Skipton, 1 tph Bradford - Skipton, no Leeds - Bradford FS trains.

Shipley should soon get back towards 2 million passengers a year- a real contast with its sad early 80's period.

 

[Neptune]

Yes when you look at Shipley it has really moved on since I was small.

Pre 1979 there were platforms 1-4:-

Platform 1 - line now lifted
Platform 2 - now platform 5
Platforms 3&4 - as now but 3 was much shorter
Goods yard - Where the car park is now

There were signal boxes for each junction too.

1979 - platform 5 was added where platform 2 is now and the good yard converted into the main car park.

1988(ish) - platform 3 lengthened to take London trains.

1992 - platform 1 built. At this time 2&5 swapped identities to as they are now.

1993-95 - electrification works including resignalling and demolition of the boxes. Platform 5 was also straightened a little by slewing into the original platform 1 track bed a little.

Since then there have been incremental improvements around the station. Booking office refurbishment including cafe, overflow car park, building new platform level structures for the subway, passenger waiting areas improved such as the heated waiting room on platform 1, full accessibility including lifts added to the p1&2 footbridge and the entirely new p3&4 footbridge, new PIS and now toilets. I’m sure I’ve missed some.

There’s still plans in place to add a deck to the main car park.

Yes it’s a totally different station yet still retains some character due to the old building.

 

[507020]

Yes when you look at Shipley it has really moved on since I was small.

Pre 1979 there were platforms 1-4:-

Platform 1 - line now lifted
Platform 2 - now platform 5
Platforms 3&4 - as now but 3 was much shorter
Goods yard - Where the car park is now

There were signal boxes for each junction too.

1979 - platform 5 was added where platform 2 is now and the good yard converted into the main car park.

1988(ish) - platform 3 lengthened to take London trains.

1992 - platform 1 built. At this time 2&5 swapped identities to as they are now.

1993-95 - electrification works including resignalling and demolition of the boxes. Platform 5 was also straightened a little by slewing into the original platform 1 track bed a little.

Since then there have been incremental improvements around the station. Booking office refurbishment including cafe, overflow car park, building new platform level structures for the subway, passenger waiting areas improved such as the heated waiting room on platform 1, full accessibility including lifts added to the p1&2 footbridge and the entirely new p3&4 footbridge, new PIS and now toilets. I’m sure I’ve missed some.

There’s still plans in place to add a deck to the main car park.

Yes it’s a totally different station yet still retains some character due to the old building.

Is there any realistic way that Shipley can be upgraded in the future to allow longer trains to run through all platforms than 4 car 333s or 331s?

 

[Neptune]

Plarforms 1 and 4 are a relatively easy extension. 2 is complicated by the junctions and the road overbridge at the Leeds end. 5 is unnecessary as there isn’t the need for 6 cars on the Bradford - Skipton route even in the peaks.

However with ASDO you don’t need to extend platforms.

 

[507020]

Plarforms 1 and 4 are a relatively easy extension. 2 is complicated by the junctions and the road overbridge at the Leeds end. 5 is unnecessary as there isn’t the need for 6 cars on the Bradford - Skipton route even in the peaks.

However with ASDO you don’t need to extend platforms.

ASDO doesn’t help if you’re overhanging a signal or a junction, or if passengers aren’t clever enough to realise they need to walk through the train and I find it an overall lazy solution. That’s not to say there won’t ever need to be 6 cars from Bradford - Skipton. Also why isn’t there a platform 6 (presumably this would be the original platform 1 that was lifted).

How busy do the Leeds - Bradford and Ilkley services get? Is there no direct service from Ilkley - Skipton? If not then passengers would incidentally need to change at Shipley onto a Bradford - Skipton service. I don’t understand how West Yorkshire managed to get some of their lines electrified at a time with privatisation looming. It’s a bit more than an offshoot of the ECML. It makes even less sense that the wires weren’t extended to Harrogate or Knaresborough at the same.

It’s such an unbalanced network, when there is frequent electric service to Leeds, Bradford Forster Square, Skipton, Ilkley, Wakefield Westgate and Doncaster, but only Diesel to Preston, Manchester, York, Harrogate, New Pudsey, Bradford Interchange and Halifax etc and nothing at all to Ripon, Otley and Wetherby, or from Colne - Skipton or Skipton - Ilkley.

I would be in favour of building a single new line from Colne to Northallerton via Skipton, Ilkley, Otley, Harrogate and Ripon which would solve most of these problems, but would that be a higher priority than, or provide more benefits than toilets at more stations. What happens if you need the toilet while you’re waiting for the train? At least that’s why it makes sense to put them at Shipley when people can change trains there.

 

[FFB6C1]

How busy do the Leeds - Bradford and Ilkley services get? Is there no direct service from Ilkley - Skipton? If not then passengers would incidentally need to change at Shipley onto a Bradford - Skipton service. I don’t understand how West Yorkshire managed to get some of their lines electrified at a time with privatisation looming. It’s a bit more than an offshoot of the ECML. It makes even less sense that the wires weren’t extended to Harrogate or Knaresborough at the same.

BUSY. Before COVID-19 peak time services between Leeds and Bradford FS would be full and standing you'd probably see ~400 pax or more on a Class 333 which can hold 360 seated and plenty more in its spacious door areas. This is why the Class 333's were extended to 4 cars in the first place. Leeds to Ilkley also gets quite busy as does Bradford to Ilkley. There are lots of school children travelling on this line of route and it's not uncommon to see the 14:47 Bradford - Ilkley full and standing after Menston and the 15:21 Ilkley to Bradford full and standing leaving Ilkley which doesn't thin out until after Guiseley. There is no service between Ilkley and Skipton, passengers must change at Shipley. These trains get fairly busy on a weekend as well with people heading into Leeds for shopping/eating/drinking so it's not uncommon to see them go full and standing at weekends too. I've worked plenty since lockdown has eased on which this has been the case. It's only really M-F off-peak that these trains are quiet. The Airedale line (Leeds - Skipton) is said to be the busiest commuter route outside of SE England. My favourite lines to work personally!

 

[Neptune]

ASDO doesn’t help if you’re overhanging a signal or a junction, or if passengers aren’t clever enough to realise they need to walk through the train and I find it an overall lazy solution. That’s not to say there won’t ever need to be 6 cars from Bradford - Skipton. Also why isn’t there a platform 6 (presumably this would be the original platform 1 that was lifted).

ASDO does work which is why it exists.

My personal preference would be to extend all platforms but when it’s physically impossible then it’s a better solution than short trains that can’t handle loadings.

Bradford - Skipton does not require 6 cars. A couple of school trains a day which 4 cars can still cope with does not justify any more. Bradford to Ilkley likewise.

There is no need to reopen the original platform 1 to create a platform 6. The reason it was closed in the first place was due to the fact that trains couldn’t pass each other in the platform due to the tightness of the curve so they closed it and used the available track bed to reduce the sharpness of platform 2 (now platform 5). It’s the least used platform so not exactly a problem.

 

[Watershed]

ASDO does work which is why it exists.

My personal preference would be to extend all platforms but when it’s physically impossible then it’s a better solution than short trains that can’t handle loadings.

Bradford - Skipton does not require 6 cars. A couple of school trains a day which 4 cars can still cope with does not justify any more. Bradford to Ilkley likewise.

There is no need to reopen the original platform 1 to create a platform 6. The reason it was closed in the first place was due to the fact that trains couldn’t pass each other in the platform due to the tightness of the curve so they closed it and used the available track bed to reduce the sharpness of platform 2 (now platform 5). It’s the least used platform so not exactly a problem.

Of course the difficulty is that the way the unit diagrams fall is for pretty much all of the services to interwork. So if you increase Leeds-Ilkley to 6 cars then that likely means everything else becomes 6 car as well, unless you do a major reshuffle.

 

[Neptune]

Of course the difficulty is that the way the unit diagrams fall is for pretty much all of the services to interwork. So if you increase Leeds-Ilkley to 6 cars then that likely means everything else becomes 6 car as well, unless you do a major reshuffle.

Recasting the unit diagrams is the idea.

 

[30907]

Is there no direct service from Ilkley - Skipton? If not then passengers would incidentally need to change at Shipley onto a Bradford - Skipton service.

From Ilkley they would use the direct bust! ATM the connections at Shipley are with the Leeds-Skiptons anyway.

I don’t understand how West Yorkshire managed to get some of their lines electrified at a time with privatisation looming. It’s a bit more than an offshoot of the ECML.

Being able to run London-Bradford under the wires helped IIRC - but it was a busy and essentially self-contained network ( give r take a couple of Morecambes that stopped intermediately.

It makes even less sense that the wires weren’t extended to Harrogate or Knaresborough at the same.

Extended? There's only a mile or so of common track and most of it is outside West Yorks.

It’s such an unbalanced network, when there is frequent electric service to Leeds, Bradford Forster Square, Skipton, Ilkley, Wakefield Westgate and Doncaster, but only Diesel to Preston, Manchester, York, Harrogate, New Pudsey, Bradford Interchange and Halifax.

The problem with the Calder Valley is that you need to wire an awful lot to cover the service - yes of course it should have been done but even RRNE would have struggled to make a business case

 

[DB]

From Ilkley they would use the direct bust! ATM the connections at Shipley are with the Leeds-Skiptons anyway.

Depends on the time of day - the buses don't run very late so are useless if travelling back later in the evening.

Extended? There's only a mile or so of common track and most of it is outside West Yorks.

The three lines wired are also relatively straightforward. The Harrogate line is not - it has a very long tunnel, and two large viaducts - which isn't to say it that wiring it isn't a good idea (Harrogate is the busiest station in North Yorks), but it wouldn't be straightforward. Onwards to York would also be difficult - another large viaduct in Knaresborough (and it would be highly contentious wiring that one due to the visual impact), then several token-worked single line sections and a fair number of manual level crossings between there and York.

 

[YorksLad12]

How busy do the Leeds - Bradford and Ilkley services get? Is there no direct service from Ilkley - Skipton? If not then passengers would incidentally need to change at Shipley onto a Bradford - Skipton service. I don’t understand how West Yorkshire managed to get some of their lines electrified at a time with privatisation looming. It’s a bit more than an offshoot of the ECML. It makes even less sense that the wires weren’t extended to Harrogate or Knaresborough at the same.

It’s such an unbalanced network, when there is frequent electric service to Leeds, Bradford Forster Square, Skipton, Ilkley, Wakefield Westgate and Doncaster, but only Diesel to Preston, Manchester, York, Harrogate, New Pudsey, Bradford Interchange and Halifax etc and nothing at all to Ripon, Otley and Wetherby, or from Colne - Skipton or Skipton - Ilkley.

Not really, it's quite self-contained; it was supposed to be done when the ECML team was in town but got delayed. The only 'oddities' are the services the extend beyond Skipton. There hasn't been a direct Ilkley-Skipton service since March 1965.

I would be in favour of building a single new line from Colne to Northallerton via Skipton, Ilkley, Otley, Harrogate and Ripon which would solve most of these problems, [...]

Apart from the bit between Skipton and Ilkley (built over), Ilkley, Otley and Arthington (now a dual carriageway) and around Ripon (built over *and* a dual carriageway)... what?

There is no need to reopen the original platform 1 to create a platform 6. The reason it was closed in the first place was due to the fact that trains couldn’t pass each other in the platform due to the tightness of the curve so they closed it and used the available track bed to reduce the sharpness of platform 2 (now platform 5). It’s the least used platform so not exactly a problem.

That's the problem with triangular stations: to make the platforms longer you need to make the traingle smaller. There seems to be plenty of space to extend P5, which the one that doesn't need longer trains. You might be able to do something if you could - at some expense - straighten out P1 & P2. P3 is as long as it's going to be without a major intervention, or by moving the junction a bit further south so that there's a separate line in to P5 with P3 extended across the current junction. Costly.

And, actually, 3-car trains are fine most of the day (with or without Covid spacing). It's in the peaks when we need (needed) six. Which is why we were supposed to be getting the 3-car 331s to replace the 333s, I thought.

 

[skyhigh]

Recasting the unit diagrams is the idea.

You definitely would need to change the diagrams- as you know at certain points of the day there are 2 trains on a single platform at Ilkley. They fit 8 car but they won't fit 12!

 

[DB]

Apart from the bit between Skipton and Ilkley (built over), Ilkley, Otley and Arthington (now a dual carriageway) and around Ripon (built over *and* a dual carriageway)... what?

Bit of an exaggeration there! Ilkley to Addingham is largely obliterated by various means (building, cuttings filled in, etc), but the formation from there on is largely intact and from Bolton Abbey onwards still in railway use (steam railway to Embsay, then the Swinden Quarry line down into Skitpton). Much of the Otley line is also unobstructed - main issues being Otley bypass, and a housing estate in Pool. Likewise Harrogate-Ripon - formation largely unobsructed apart from houses at Littlethorpe, and Ripon bypass.

Which isn't to say that reinstatement is likely of course - the only one which might one day be is Harrogate to Ripon - but by changing the route slightly most would be possible. The exception is Ilkley-Addingham: can't see any way that would be possible given that all traces of the formation from Ilkley station to the edge of the town have been completely obliterated - bridges and viaduct demolished and embankments removed, and there's nowhere it coulkd be re-routed as the valley is narrow at that point (hence Ilkley doesn't have a bypass as there's nowhere to put one).

 

[YorksLad12]

Bit of an exaggeration there! Ilkley to Addingham is largely obliterated by various means (building, cuttings filled in, etc), but the formation from there on is largely intact and from Bolton Abbey onwards still in railway use (steam railway to Embsay, then the Swinden Quarry line down into Skitpton). Much of the Otley line is also unobstructed - main issues being Otley bypass, and a housing estate in Pool. Likewise Harrogate-Ripon - formation largely unobsructed apart from houses at Littlethorpe, and Ripon bypass.

Which isn't to say that reinstatement is likely of course - the only one which might one day be is Harrogate to Ripon - but by changing the route slightly most would be possible. The exception is Ilkley-Addingham: can't see any way that would be possible given that all traces of the formation from Ilkley station to the edge of the town have been completely obliterated - bridges and viaduct demolished and embankments removed, and there's nowhere it coulkd be re-routed as the valley is narrow at that point (hence Ilkley doesn't have a bypass as there's nowhere to put one).

You say it's a bit of an exaggeration, but then make the same points I do!
(I'll admit to having forgotten about Skipton-Embsay-Bolton Abbey almost being a through route.)

On topic: I'm sure the new facility will be popular, I hope it's respected and maintained.

 

[DB]

You say it's a bit of an exaggeration, but then make the same points I do!
(I'll admit to having forgotten about Skipton-Embsay-Bolton Abbey almost being a through route.)

On topic: I'm sure the new facility will be popular, I hope it's respected and maintained.

You seemed to be saying that most of the route was built over, which it isn't really - the formations are largely unobstructed other than short sections.

 

[nimbus21]

It's a relief to have the toilets at last (pun intended). But passengers are still waiting for some toilets at Forster Square, however work will hopefully start on the station improvements shortly.

Shipley still needs more car parking though as it continues to attract passengers from across the Bradford district who use the combination of the Skipton and Bradford services to Leeds to access the national network.

The Cinderella station in the area is Frizinghall where the station car parking is practically non-existant.

 

[xotGD]

Hopefully Bingley is next on the list for some station toilets. There's space available.

 

[yorksrob]

There must be loads of stations with mothballed toilet facilities still in existance around the network. If they could reopen some of these, they'd only need to add the disabled loo.

 

[Neptune]

There must be loads of stations with mothballed toilet facilities still in existance around the network. If they could reopen some of these, they'd only need to add the disabled loo.

There are plenty of stations across the country with this potential.

However, I think a lot will need massive amounts of work to reopen them such as new plumbing works, modern fixtures and fittings, external works for disabled facilities such as automatic entrance/exit doors and possibly ramps and then the addition of disabled facilities. There’s also possibly some structural works required on some buildings which haven’t been used in years.

None of it is quick and easy and certainly not cheap. However what price can you put on better facilities?