Your experiences of hostile behaviour on certain lines travelling by train in the UK?

[lxfe_mxtterz]

Hi all,

A couple of years ago, I started a thread in the Buses & Coaches section on "Most Hostile Bus Routes". Recent experiences have prompted me to ponder the most hostile / troublesome railway lines...

My nomination will have to be the Guildford to Aldershot and Aldershot to Ascot lines. I have often experienced general anti-social behaviour on this line, but after having had the misfortune of working a Guildford to Ascot return service today, I quite frankly hope to never set foot on that line again.

Groups of rowdy kids using the train as a social / drinking space (travelling end-to-end for multiple journeys without getting off), kids clearly without First Class tickets (or indeed any tickets) taking over First Class and playing with the internal doors, other groups of kids looking to get a reaction by yelling things such as "We don't have tickets, what (are) you going to do?" as you walk through the train...

I was approached by a pair of uniformed security guards at Guildford earlier, who informed me that anti-social behaviour and ticketless travel on the Guildford to Aldershot line had gotten so bad that South Western Railway has now contracted security guards to travel on the trains to support the guards. It was a very welcome addition but unfortunately they weren't there for the Aldershot to Ascot section, nor the return journey which was a lot worse.

Does anybody have any stories of railway lines particularly rife with hostile / troublesome / anti-social behaviour?

Are there any other lines which have security guards onboard as a result of poor passenger behaviour?

 

[BPN2022]

Blackpool North and South branches can be rowdy on summer Fridays and Saturdays in the season

 

[Kite159]

The Maesteg branch features high in my eyes for being a bit hostile.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Any where Northern have put on a 2-coach train at rush hour, especially pre-COVID but also occasionally nowadays.

 

[snookertam]

Almost the full length of the routes between Helensburgh Central and Balloch through to Bathgate sees trouble at sometime.

 

[godfreycomplex]

Hi all,

A couple of years ago, I started a thread in the Buses & Coaches section on "Most Hostile Bus Routes". Recent experiences have prompted me to ponder the most hostile / troublesome railway lines...

My nomination will have to be the Guildford to Aldershot and Aldershot to Ascot lines. I have often experienced general anti-social behaviour on this line, but after having had the misfortune of working a Guildford to Ascot return service today, I quite frankly hope to never set foot on that line again.

Groups of rowdy kids using the train as a social / drinking space (travelling end-to-end for multiple journeys without getting off), kids clearly without First Class tickets (or indeed any tickets) taking over First Class and playing with the internal doors, other groups of kids looking to get a reaction by yelling things such as "We don't have tickets, what (are) you going to do?" as you walk through the train...

I was approached by a pair of uniformed security guards at Guildford earlier, who informed me that anti-social behaviour and ticketless travel on the Guildford to Aldershot line had gotten so bad that South Western Railway has now contracted security guards to travel on the trains to support the guards. It was a very welcome addition but unfortunately they weren't there for the Aldershot to Ascot section, nor the return journey which was a lot worse.

Does anybody have any stories of railway lines particularly rife with hostile / troublesome / anti-social behaviour?

Are there any other lines which have security guards onboard as a result of poor passenger behaviour?

Personally I think it’s easy to overdramatise these issues but that being said that entire section of line is quite an unpleasant area to live, especially if you’re young, a problem that rent-a-thugs in security based fancy dress will sadly not fix.

What will fix it is proper investment in social spaces for people to spend time in. It’s the same with many so called “rough” lines, public transport is the only functional instrument of society that’s left, in the sense of a social space. And if the railway can’t provide that, if it went around empty save for a couple of bouncers forbidding people they didn’t like the look of entry, then what is it for?

 

[Horizon22]

North Kent line between Woolwich Arsenal and Dartford.

 

[CapabilityB]

Are you talking hostile from the customers, or hostile from the staff?

Amongst the various threads on the forum there's probably an equal number of each.

Tbh, I'd rather we celebrated positive behaviours unless you've a direct influence on improving things.

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

Are you talking hostile from the customers, or hostile from the staff?

I kindly refer you to my opening post.

Tbh, I'd rather we celebrated positive behaviours unless you've a direct influence on improving things.

You have no obligation to reply to this thread if you don't want to. By all means, feel free to create a new thread on lines with the nicest passengers.

 

[MikeWM]

The Maesteg branch features high in my eyes for being a bit hostile.

Agreed, it is one of the two places this year I've encountered a 'delay due to disruptive passengers' on a train I've actually been on - in this case a group of teenage girls who didn't want to pay for a ticket and verbally abused the guard while running around the train in a rather annoying manner. *Eventually* they got off and the train continued.

The other was last night on a Cambridge to Ely train where someone was assaulted - I don't really know the details, I was in a different part of the carriage listening to very loud music on headphones because there were at least two (different?) very rowdy and shouty groups on the train that I was trying to block out, but someone ended up with a very bloodied nose and the train was held at Ely until the police arrived and talked to the guard (and whatever they did next; I left and went home; the train left about 25 late).

I guess the latter incident proves this sort of thing can happen anywhere :-/

 

[The_Train]

I don't think there is any route in particular I could think of that stands out over others. Unfortunately, with the state this country is in right now, the answer could be any line that is situated between John O'Groates and Lands End

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

I don't think there is any route in particular I could think of that stands out over others. Unfortunately, with the state this country is in right now, the answer could be any line that is situated between John O'Groates and Lands End

Whilst I do agree with your comment re the current state of the country, I certainly do feel that some lines are worse than others. Something like the Guildford New Line tends to be generally civilised in comparison to the "free-for-all" that is the Aldershot to Ascot.

In fact, pretty much all of the "suburban" lines I sign are generally fine; Woking main line stoppers can be a little irksome at times, but nothing too bad. The Aldershot lines certainly stand out in terms of frequent troublesome behaviour.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Whilst I do agree with your comment re the current state of the country, I certainly do feel that some lines are worse than others. Something like the Guildford New Line tends to be generally civilised in comparison to the "free-for-all" that is the Aldershot to Ascot.

In fact, pretty much all of the "suburban" lines I sign are generally fine; Woking main line stoppers can be a little irksome at times, but nothing too bad. The Aldershot lines certainly stand out in terms of frequent troublesome behaviour.

Aldershot is a garrison town - I wonder whether the train would be a more pleasant way to travel if somebody built a curve between Ash and Frimley, or it just went part way on to the Aldershot line then reversed, either way bypassing Aldershot altogether?!

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

Aldershot is a garrison town - I wonder whether the train would be a more pleasant way to travel if somebody built a curve between Ash and Frimley, or it just went part way on to the Aldershot line then reversed, either way bypassing Aldershot altogether?!

To be honest, I find it's not just Aldershot itself, but also Ash, Frimley and Camberley which are hotspots too.

 

[Shimbleshanks]

Weren't late night trains from Brighton towards London canned a few years ago because of antisocial behaviour?
My late sister used to complain in the 1980s about 'race riots' on a late evening stopping train from Birmingham New Street to Coventry. It was scheduled to leave before pub closing time but because it connected with a service from Scotland that usually ran late it was often held by 20 minutes or so, just enough time for all the ne'er-do-wells to pile out of the Birmingham hostelries and onto the train. But all this was a long time ago and I'm sure all inhabitants of the West Midlands behave impeccably these days.

 

[Gloster]

I worked at Guildford in 1978, but I don’t think I ever worked beyond 18.30. However, it was well known that on Friday and Saturday night army blokes who really wanted a good night out away from the Military Police would get out of Aldershot and, if London was too far, the city of Guildford was their preference. So, having gone that far, they might as well make a real night of it. They were bad enough as they staggered back to the station, but if they missed the last train and realised that they would have to walk back to barracks or miss reveille… Once the last train to Aldershot had left, the staff used to go to ground for their own safety.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Things , and clientele can change- in my days on what was properly called North London Railways we had some trouble on Friday evenings with Watfordians coming back on the last St Albans Abbey to Watford - so extra staff and the odd on call manager were put to ride the train - but the very worst was the 2310 Watford to Euston DC which collected a fine crop of miscreants all the way down the line , usually ending with it being withdrawn for cleaning , damage repairs (seat cushion replacements) and of course fire extinguishers . The odd normal passengers would have a disturbing journeys. Even the BTP were a bit concerned.

The answer was to check the Passenger Service requirement , which proved it was not included. Not wishing to provide free travel for undesirable passengers , I withdrew it at the next timetable change. Another problem train was the 2345 North Woolwich to Stratford (thence empty to Euston for berthing) , same again - after sampling the madness on board. There was sometimes "demands" for passenger watchdogs to retain them - or even turn ECS from the NLL to Euston into services. Line held on these. (plus possessions and berthing changed frequently)

Oddly - the 2337 Euston to Watford DC was fine - probably busy enough - and I rode it a few times on observation duties and even did some ticket checks - virtually all "legal" ........

 

[Bishopstone]

Newhaven to Seaford attracts some troublesome youths*. Ticket checks are rare on this short hop, and neither station is barriered.

Rail Enforcement Officers visit the line occasionally - in pairs, mid-morning, spending the entire journey chatting to each other in a vestibule.

* verbal intimidation of other passengers and rail staff; unwanted touching; vandalism of stations and neighbouring properties etc.

 

[43066]

North Kent line between Woolwich Arsenal and Dartford.

Agreed, also the mid Kent line (Lewisham - Hayes) has a bad reputation, especially towards the Hayes end of the route.

The line between Swanley and Sevenoaks via Otford has also had issues over the years, with Bat & Ball a particular hotspot. Surprising given its proximity to leafy Sevenoaks!

 

[Jamesrob637]

Plymouth to Ivybridge on some trains: fortunately the journey is short.
Some Manchester suburban routes. Stoke stoppers are designated "dry" trains at weekends for this reason.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

My experience is somewhat out-dated, but the Robin Hood Line used to be quite rowdy at times.

It always surprised me how different the atmosphere was on Merseyrail between the scallies on the Kirkby line and the more genteel users on (at least the northern end of) the Ormskirk line. Your milage may vary if the races are on at Aintree!

 

[Scotrail314209]

As someone else has said, the North Clyde lines (particularly between Partick and Airdrie/Springburn) seems to battle with lots of anti-social behaviour in the evenings. Parts of the Argyle Line have the same but aren't as bad.

I've occasionally seen some trouble on the Ayrshire Coast Line at nights, but it's usually confined to the stretch between Kilwinning and Largs.

 

[Iskra]

My experience is somewhat out-dated, but the Robin Hood Line used to be quite rowdy at times.

It always surprised me how different the atmosphere was on Merseyrail between the scallies on the Kirkby line and the more genteel users on (at least the northern end of) the Ormskirk line. Your milage may vary if the races are on at Aintree!

The Robin Hood was basically a linear playground when I covered it a couple of years ago.

- - - -

I’m not sure whether it’s the lines that are bad, or just late night trains but late night Manchester-Barrow services on weekends can be very rowdy, and I’ve seen a fight on a late night Hope Valley service which BTP attended. Those lines are both quite nice during the day though.

On a Norwich-Great Yarmouth train in 37/68 set days I had a man aggressively begging, keen to show me his electronic tag to intimidate me into giving him some money.