ZEBRA 2 Discussion

[aswilliamsuk]

Is there a reason why Blackpool still hasn't placed an order nearly two years after their award?

They were very close to doing so last year, but had to re-do the process (for reasons I cannot recall). Recent council papers suggested the order was in the process of being approved, but the details were redacted.

Also interesting is that Kent have apparently ordered 33 buses - 28 are of course the ie Trams for Fastrack work around Dartford. The other 5 are for the pending Dover Fastrack, which is seemingly going to be operated by Stagecoach, but there has been no news whatsoever of what has actually been ordered for it.

Of the others not ordered yet - Herts switched the funding to Uno relatively recently (after Arriva pulled out), and West Midlands has, I understand, had the funding approved to be switched from hydrogen to electric (although I could be wrong).

 

[KX03HZY]

A few more now known of:

https://www.westyorks-ca.gov.uk/media/11917/zebra2_.pdf

West Yorkshire Combined Authority and First Bus have teamed up to bid for 41 electric double deckers on Leeds routes 1, 6/8 and 33/34 at Hunslet depot

Only one proposal met the requirements for a strong application, which is in

partnership with First Bus for routes in Leeds. This ZEBRA2 application is to replace

41 diesel double decker buses with battery electric ZEBs. These will operate from

First Bus’s Hunslet depot at Donisthorpe Street in Leeds, where new charging

equipment will be installed.


The proposal will electrify both city centre and cross-city routes, directly saving

58,621 tonnes of carbon, 20,754kg NOx and 519kg PM 2.5 in total over 17 years,

directly supporting air quality improvements in some of the most deprived areas

of Leeds. These new, high quality and accessible ZEBs will also reduce noise at

the depot, on local roads and in key noise-sensitive destinations
The bus services and routes proposed to be electrified include:
• Route 33/34 – Leeds-Otley – 12 Double Deck ZEBs

• Route 1 – Beeston-Leeds-Lawnswood – 8 Double Deck ZEBs

• Routes 6/8 – Leeds-Holt Park – 21 Double Deck ZEBs

travel.portsmouth.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/ZEBRA2-Application-Form-Portsmouth-v1.4-REDACTED-MGM-020224.pdf

First Solent and Portsmouth City Council bidding for 40 single deck EVs single decks, 26 standard ones and 14 'long-range' ones at Hilsea depot for routes 2, 7 and 8 - Wright or Yutong are the preferred suppliers.

The following bus routes will be electrified:

• Route 2 Portsmouth Hard Interchange - Paulsgrove

• Star 7 Portsmouth City Centre - Wecock Farm

• Star 8 Portsmouth Hard Interchange - Clanfield

A total of 40 ZEBs will operate, all single decks, 26 standard, 14 with long range batteries reflected

in an additional multi-operator application form). Each of the manufacturer technical

specifications fully align with all DfT/ZEBRA2 requirements.

The proposed routes are:
• Route 2 (14 buses)
• Route 7 (12 buses)

• Route 8 (14 buses)

Our operator First Bus has determined if a route requires single- or double-deck vehicles and

has also sized vehicle lengths to accommodate the current passenger numbers for the

service and to also accommodate a 10% predicted customer growth.

The proposed battery sizes reflect the expected energy demands of the routes – these have

been modelled based upon existing First Bus ZEB fleet operational experience and

modelling data provided by First Bus ZEB manufacturer partners reflecting the topography of

Portsmouth routes, 2, Star 7 and Star 8.


The specified livery will be agreed by First Bus and Portsmouth City Council.
Additional bus attributes e.g. Tap On Tap Off (TOTO) ticketing equipment are installed by

First Bus following delivery of the new ZEB, and so are excluded from the technical

specification.

The vehicles are specified to be compatible with First Bus’ chosen charging infrastructure

(details provided below).


First Bus secured prices for the required technical specifications for all vehicle types from

four OEM partners and selected Yutong and WrightBus as preferred partners for this

ZEBRA2 proposal. First Bus has experience of operating both manufacturers’ vehicles.

 

[507021]

They were very close to doing so last year, but had to re-do the process (for reasons I cannot recall). Recent council papers suggested the order was in the process of being approved, but the details were redacted.

Thanks for that, hopefully an order is placed soon.

 

[37114]

Is there a list anywhere of what make/model of buses have been ordered anywhere please?

 

[Eyersey468]

Is there a list anywhere of what make/model of buses have been ordered anywhere please?

Do you mean for a particular operator or in total as part of ZEBRA2?

 

[Trainman40083]

Do you mean for a particular operator or in total as part of ZEBRA2?

I would think buses would only have been ordered for ZEBRA 1, as there are only bids at this stage for ZEBRA 2, that may succeed, to be announced in March 2024.

 

[Fox192]

What date in March is it announced?

 

[Edvid]

Some of the funding will be awarded for this financial year, so no later than 28 March (last business day before the Easter weekend).

Is there a list anywhere of what make/model of buses have been ordered anywhere please?

If you're referring to ZEBRA 1 orders, here's the breakdown AIUI (all Wright buses listed are Electroliners).

Cambridgeshire & Peterborough CA - 30 Volvo/MCV BZL DD
Kent CC - 28 Irizar ieTram, 5 unknown
Leicester CC - 110 Wright (68 GB Kite, 42 Streetdeck), 6 Yutong E10
Warrington BC - 105 Volvo/MCV BZL (72 SD, 33 DD)
South Yorkshire CA - 23 Yutong E12, 4 BYD/ADL Enviro200EV
Norfolk CC - 70 Wright (59 Streetdeck, 11 GB Kite)
North Yorkshire CC - 20 Mercedes-Benz eCitaro, 19 ADL Enviro400EV
Portsmouth CC & Hampshire CC - 62 Wright GB Kite
Blackpool Council - none to date
Nottingham CC - 48 Yutong E10/E12
Greater Manchester CA - 170 Volvo/MCV BZL (150 DD, 20 SD)
Hertfordshire CC - none to date
West Midlands CA - none to date
City of York Council - 53 Wright (29 Streetdeck, 24 GB Kite)
West Yorkshire CA - 57 Wright (32 GB Kite, 25 Streetdeck), 47 unknown, 15 Mercedes-Benz eCitaro
Oxfordshire CC - 104 Wright (99 Streetdeck (inc. 8 open-top), 5 GB Kite), 55 ADL Enviro400EV

 

[syjunkie]

Some of the funding will be awarded for this financial year, so no later than 28 March (last business day before the Easter weekend).

If you're referring to ZEBRA 1 orders, here's the breakdown AIUI (all Wright buses listed are Electroliners).

Cambridgeshire & Peterborough CA - 30 Volvo/MCV BZL DD
Kent CC - 28 Irizar ieTram, 5 unknown
Leicester CC - 110 Wright (86 Streetdeck, 24 GB Kite), 6 Yutong E10
Warrington BC - 105 Volvo/MCV BZL SD
South Yorkshire CA - 23 Yutong (model?), 4 BYD/ADL Enviro200EV
Norfolk CC - 70 Wright Streetdeck
North Yorkshire CC - 20 Mercedes-Benz eCitaro, 19 ADL Enviro400EV
Portsmouth CC & Hampshire CC - 62 Wright GB Kite
Blackpool Council - none to date
Nottingham CC - 48 Yutong E10/E12
Greater Manchester CA - 170 Volvo/MCV BZL (150 DD, 20 SD)
Hertfordshire CC - none to date
West Midlands CA - none to date
City of York Council - 53 Wright (29 Streetdeck, 24 GB Kite)
West Yorkshire CA - 57 Wright (32 GB Kite, 25 Streetdeck), 47 unknown, 15 Mercedes-Benz eCitaro
Oxfordshire CC - 104 Wright (99 Streetdeck (inc. 8 open-top), 5 GB Kite), 55 ADL Enviro400EV

The South yorkshire yutongs are E12's

 

[Andy Pacer]

Leicester CC - 110 Wright (86 Streetdeck, 24 GB Kite), 6 Yutong E10

I think these Wright types are back to front.

 

[Edvid]

The South yorkshire yutongs are E12's

I think these Wright types are back to front.

Thanks both, edits now made.

 

[aswilliamsuk]

Some of the funding will be awarded for this financial year, so no later than 28 March (last business day before the Easter weekend).

If you're referring to ZEBRA 1 orders, here's the breakdown AIUI (all Wright buses listed are Electroliners).

Cambridgeshire & Peterborough CA - 30 Volvo/MCV BZL DD
Kent CC - 28 Irizar ieTram, 5 unknown
Leicester CC - 110 Wright (86 GB Kite, 24 Streetdeck), 6 Yutong E10
Warrington BC - 105 Volvo/MCV BZL SD
South Yorkshire CA - 23 Yutong E12, 4 BYD/ADL Enviro200EV
Norfolk CC - 70 Wright Streetdeck
North Yorkshire CC - 20 Mercedes-Benz eCitaro, 19 ADL Enviro400EV
Portsmouth CC & Hampshire CC - 62 Wright GB Kite
Blackpool Council - none to date
Nottingham CC - 48 Yutong E10/E12
Greater Manchester CA - 170 Volvo/MCV BZL (150 DD, 20 SD)
Hertfordshire CC - none to date
West Midlands CA - none to date
City of York Council - 53 Wright (29 Streetdeck, 24 GB Kite)
West Yorkshire CA - 57 Wright (32 GB Kite, 25 Streetdeck), 47 unknown, 15 Mercedes-Benz eCitaro
Oxfordshire CC - 104 Wright (99 Streetdeck (inc. 8 open-top), 5 GB Kite), 55 ADL Enviro400EV

The Norfolk order is 59 StreetDeck and 11 GB Kite.

Some of the funding will be awarded for this financial year, so no later than 28 March (last business day before the Easter weekend).

If you're referring to ZEBRA 1 orders, here's the breakdown AIUI (all Wright buses listed are Electroliners).

Cambridgeshire & Peterborough CA - 30 Volvo/MCV BZL DD
Kent CC - 28 Irizar ieTram, 5 unknown
Leicester CC - 110 Wright (86 GB Kite, 24 Streetdeck), 6 Yutong E10
Warrington BC - 105 Volvo/MCV BZL SD
South Yorkshire CA - 23 Yutong E12, 4 BYD/ADL Enviro200EV
Norfolk CC - 70 Wright Streetdeck
North Yorkshire CC - 20 Mercedes-Benz eCitaro, 19 ADL Enviro400EV
Portsmouth CC & Hampshire CC - 62 Wright GB Kite
Blackpool Council - none to date
Nottingham CC - 48 Yutong E10/E12
Greater Manchester CA - 170 Volvo/MCV BZL (150 DD, 20 SD)
Hertfordshire CC - none to date
West Midlands CA - none to date
City of York Council - 53 Wright (29 Streetdeck, 24 GB Kite)
West Yorkshire CA - 57 Wright (32 GB Kite, 25 Streetdeck), 47 unknown, 15 Mercedes-Benz eCitaro
Oxfordshire CC - 104 Wright (99 Streetdeck (inc. 8 open-top), 5 GB Kite), 55 ADL Enviro400EV

The other interesting bit is West Yorkshire CA.

The 47 unknown orders should be for Arriva Yorkshire - who going on other orders within the group recently, I'd expect to be Wright StreetDeck Electroliners, but who knows!

There are also 17 unordered vehicles from the WYCA award - these, as I recall, were for rural networks in Kirklees and Calderdale, but all that has gone very quiet...

 

[Edvid]

By manufacturer, the ZEBRA 1 subtotals are currently - 456 Wright, 305 Volvo/MCV, 77 Yutong, 74 ADL (plus 4 bodies on BYD chassis), 35 Mercedes-Benz, 28 Irizar, 52 unknown

The Norfolk order is 59 StreetDeck and 11 GB Kite.

Thanks, sorted.

 

[37114]

Some of the funding will be awarded for this financial year, so no later than 28 March (last business day before the Easter weekend).

If you're referring to ZEBRA 1 orders, here's the breakdown AIUI (all Wright buses listed are Electroliners).

Cambridgeshire & Peterborough CA - 30 Volvo/MCV BZL DD
Kent CC - 28 Irizar ieTram, 5 unknown
Leicester CC - 110 Wright (86 GB Kite, 24 Streetdeck), 6 Yutong E10
Warrington BC - 105 Volvo/MCV BZL SD
South Yorkshire CA - 23 Yutong E12, 4 BYD/ADL Enviro200EV
Norfolk CC - 70 Wright (59 Streetdeck, 11 GB Kite)
North Yorkshire CC - 20 Mercedes-Benz eCitaro, 19 ADL Enviro400EV
Portsmouth CC & Hampshire CC - 62 Wright GB Kite
Blackpool Council - none to date
Nottingham CC - 48 Yutong E10/E12
Greater Manchester CA - 170 Volvo/MCV BZL (150 DD, 20 SD)
Hertfordshire CC - none to date
West Midlands CA - none to date
City of York Council - 53 Wright (29 Streetdeck, 24 GB Kite)
West Yorkshire CA - 57 Wright (32 GB Kite, 25 Streetdeck), 47 unknown, 15 Mercedes-Benz eCitaro
Oxfordshire CC - 104 Wright (99 Streetdeck (inc. 8 open-top), 5 GB Kite), 55 ADL Enviro400EV

By manufacturer, the ZEBRA 1 subtotals are currently - 456 Wright, 305 Volvo/MCV, 77 Yutong, 74 ADL (plus 4 bodies on BYD chassis), 35 Mercedes-Benz, 28 Irizar, 52 unknown

Thanks, sorted.

Thanks both, I wasn't sure how the funding etc worked and if as part of the bids for ZEBRA 2, the manufacturer had to be stated on the bid. I guess until the successful bids are confirmed there will be no confirmation of what type of vehicle is specified

 

[820KDV]

DfT want very detailed info on both the vehciles and the chargers for ZEBRA2, and for 1st and 2nd choice on each. The bid I worked on needs both double and single deck buses, so there was lots of data to enter. DfT want to know details of the batteries to be used as well, the National Grid connection and so on. Had we not been partnered with a major Group operator with their own experts to call on we'd not have been able to submit anything. As the funding is on the basis of the gap between the cost of a diesel fleet and the proposed electric one, DfT also want all the details of the diesel equivalents the costs were based on.

And, as the technology is always changing, our bid is written to allow us to upgrade any aspect before placing the order, although the operator will fund any cost difference from their own money.

Finally, having pretty much completed the form, one of our manufacturers advised that they could no longer meet the height restrictions of this operation, so most of the figures had to be re-done. This round was supposed to be for rural buses, and in rural areas you often get smaller operators. The smaller firm just won't have the knowledge that is needed, nor will they for some time to come, which is a concern as fewer and fewer diesel buses roll off the various production lines.

 

[KX03HZY]

A couple more as we get closer to the announcements:

www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://westofengland-ca.moderngov.co.uk/documents/s7726/Item%252015%2520-%2520Transport%2520Infrastructure%2520Projects.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiqwvnpw8GEAxUyUkEAHalEAVMQFnoECCIQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1dw8pciRXaOnWyFEGIlktx

West of England combined authority and First Bus bidding for 74 electric buses (67 double decks and 7 singles) for Hengrove depot in Bristol

Total cost for First Bus proposal £44.1m


Total bid to the ZEBRA 2 fund £6.7m (with a First Bus contribution of

£37.4m)


Summary of proposal:

- Upgrade of Hengrove depot including electrical charging infrastructure to

support new electric bus fleet

- A total of 74 electric buses – 67 Double Decker and 7 Single Decker (new

zero emission buses to replace existing Euro 5 and 6 diesel buses)

Timeline:

- Successful bid will be confirmed in March 2024

- If the West of England Mayoral Combined Authority is successful – Zero

Emission Buses will begin operation in November 2025

Noticed within this document North Somerset are also bidding based on the Weston area but haven't found the bid document yet.

Alternative Options Considered

140.

Option 1: not to submit a bid. This option was not considered as it would result

in the Mayoral Combined Authority failing to take advantage of available funding

that could assist in introducing zero emission electric buses in the area and

assist in meeting net zero emission targets, as well as targets within our Bus

Service Improvement Plan and Enhanced Partnership in relation to transitioning

to a zero emission bus fleet in the area.


141. Option 2: to develop a multiple operator bid across the area. This option was

not considered viable as a result of the short timescales in which the bid had to

be submitted and the high level of technical detail required for a successful

submission, which would not have been possible in the time available. In

addition, DfT learning from the ZEBRA 1 scheme that identified multiple operator

bids as high-risk in terms of deliverability challenges.


142. Option 3: develop a joint bid with North Somerset Council. This option was

considered however was not taken forward as a result of North Somerset

Council qualifying for ringfenced funding for rural areas, which the Combined

Authority was not eligible for. North Somerset Council have submitted a

separate ZEBRA 2 bid centered on the Weston depot.

https://www.westsussex.gov.uk/media/20155/zebra2_app.pdf

West Sussex County Council is leading on a bid with Metrobus for 43 additional hydrogen buses - 15 standard-length single decks, 4 long-length single decks and 24 double decks at Crawley depot for routes 21, 22, 23, 61, 93 200, 270, 271, 272, 273, 281, 291 and 400 - Gatwick Airport, Surrey County Council and Kent County Council also listed as contributors. Wrightbus listed as preferred manufacturer or ADL/Caetano as a 'back-up' alternative.

The area served by this innovative bid for a major expansion of the number of

hydrogen-fuelled zero-emission buses operated by Metrobus is large – covering

from Caterham (inside the M25) to Brighton (on the south coast) and extending

across the rural south-east from Guildford (to the west of WSCC) to Tunbridge

Wells (to the east of WSCC). This area enhances inter-urban connections for the

residents of no fewer than 5 LTAs and 12 constituent district councils.

The operating territory is extensive, varied and challenging – key trip generators

of Crawley, Brighton and Gatwick Airport are major sources of bus patronage

and also high demand areas for other transport modes, whether nearby or

further afield, and across local authority areas. Accordingly, this bid has been

developed through engagement with all of the LTAs, as well as Gatwick Airport.


The bus routes are as follows, with the number of buses on each shown in

brackets:

21: Dorking – Crawley (2)

22: Crawley – Guildford (2)

23: Crawley – Faygate – Horsham – Southwater – Ashington – Washington –

Findon – Worthing (4)

61: Horsham – North Heath and 93: Dorking – Beare Green – Kingsfold –

Warnham – Horsham (4 across routes 61 and 93)

200: Horsham – Faygate – Gatwick (5)

270: East Grinstead – Forest Row – Danehill – Horstead Keynes – Haywards

Heath – Burgess Hill – Hassocks – Clayton – Brighton (4)

271: Crawley – Handcross – Staplefield – Cuckfield – Wivelsfield - Pycombe –

Brighton (3)

272: Crawley – Copthorne – Crawley Down – Ardingly – Haywards Heath –

Burgess Hill – Brighton (3)

273: Crawley – Bolney – Hickstead – Sayers Common – Albourne –

Hurstpierpoint – Brighton (3)

281: Lingfield – Dormansland – Crawley Down – Copthorne – Crawley (4)

291: Crawley – Copthorne – East Grinstead – Colemans Hatch – Withyham –

Groombridge – Tunbridge Wells (4)

400: Caterham – Godstone – Bletchingly – East Grinstead (5)


Most of these bus routes connect to/from Crawley in West Sussex (21, 22, 23,

200, 271 272, 273, 281, 291). Route 400 runs through Crawley and route 200

runs around the outskirts. All buses will operate in the east of West Sussex with

only 2 of the 13 routes not also going into 1 or more of the neighbouring LTAs of

Surrey, East Sussex, Brighton and Kent.


Services 21 and 22 are contracted local bus services to Surrey County Council

and letters from bus operators expressing their interest in seeking to bid to

operate the bus services when they are retendered in 2024 are included in

Annex A (REDACTED).


The 22, 200, and 400 services are particularly important in the context of this

bid in providing direct connectivity to Gatwick Airport, a funding partner for

ZEBRA 2, with a notable mention of route 200 which features 24 hours per day

operation, 7 days per week, reflecting airport operations.


Route 23, operating within Horsham, is noteworthy as approximately 80% of the

route is within this rural district, and offers a connection across West Sussex into

both Crawley (in the north) and Worthing (on the south coast). A further

important aspect of this cross-county connection is that these two districts are

each home to a major hospital, providing more medical services than Horsham

Community Hospital.


Route 61 solely serves Horsham town centre, therefore is essential for local links

to amenities and services including schools and supermarkets and is operated

efficiently (inter-worked) with Route 93, which links Horsham to Dorking.


Routes 270, 271, 272, and 273 are important routes providing inter-urban

connections across West Sussex offering a direct route for residents in the north

of the county to get to the largest single conurbation in the area, Brighton.

Brighton is a popular destination for leisure and employment and in doing so

routes 271 and 272 travel through Lewes while route 270 serves Wealden,

districts in East Sussex.


These routes all operate from Metrobus’ Crawley depot, which provides 24/7,

365 days per year operational and maintenance support coverage for the fleet.


As hydrogen is considered by Metrobus to be the nearest equivalent zeroemission bus fuel to diesel in terms of vehicle range, operating span and

performance, the fleet funded through ZEBRA 2 will be hydrogen fuel cell

vehicles and able to be re-fuelled at the existing Crawley depot, where refuelling

infrastructure has already been installed, as the procurement of 43 new ZEBs

will be in addition to the 54 hydrogen ZEBs which will be in service by the time

of those funded by ZEBRA 2.

 

[Aaron Ashton]

Lancashire County Council has bid with the intention of splitting between Preston Bus and Stagecoach (both CNL and MCSL). The lion share would be 31 double deckers (Volvo BZL/ADL E400EV) going to Morecambe to replace E400 MMCs on Services 1/1A/2X/100, 28 unspecified vehicles for Preston for Services 1, 3 and 111 and 10 unspecified vehicles (probably double deckers) for Preston Bus for Service 19 and 35. Link is from Lancashire County Council. https://www.lancashire.gov.uk/media...-emission-regional-area-fund-bid-redacted.pdf

 

[KX03HZY]

Tees Valley Combined Authority has teamed up with Arriva & Stagecoach to bid for 62 electric buses - 22 for Arriva Darlington route 2 and Arriva Redcar route 63 as well as 40 for Stagecoach Stockton depot (Nearly the entire allocation i believe)

democracy.darlington.gov.uk/documents/s21158/240222%20S%20Darlington%20Transport%20Plan%20-%20Delivery%20Plan%20APP%201.pdf

TVCA worked with local operators Arriva and Stagecoach and

submitted a Tees Valley application in December 2023, whereby

Arriva has agreed to fund both the diesel capital cost equivalent, and

the 25% match funding requirement for 22 electric vehicles. These

vehicles, and any relevant infrastructure, will be split between their

Redcar, and Darlington depots, prioritising service 2 (seven vehicles,

covering Redhall to Cockerton), and service 63 (15 vehicles, covering

Middlesbrough to Redcar). The Stagecoach application is for 40

vehicles operating out of their Stockton depot; however, these

vehicles are not expected to be deployed on service 6/6A.

 

[Edvid]

On another thread I came across a Sunday Times article on buying buses from non-UK manufacturers with ZEBRA 1 money, which also explains the Blackpool situation (shown in bold).

Buy-British bus scheme 'rerouted abroad'

Oliver Gill

Half of the zero-emission vehicles benefiting from a £3 billion "buy British' government bus-building programme are being made in China and overseas, new analysis reveals. Government figures show that 953 buses have been ordered using the zero-emission bus regional areas, or "Zebra", initiative.

Analysis of the figures shows that only 470 went to the Northern Ireland company Wrightbus and Alexander Dennis of Scotland. The remaining half were spread among Yutong of China, Volvo of Sweden, the German company Mercedes and Irizar of Spain.

The revelations come as the JCB scion Jo Bamford, the owner of Wrightbus, launches a legal fight against one of the councils tapping Boris Johnson's "bus back better" programme.

Johnson unveiled the initiative as prime minister in March 2021 "to deliver 4,000 new British-built electric or hydrogen buses" to serve regional routes.

Bamford, the son of the Tory Party "super donor" Lord Bamford, is suing Blackpool Transport over a procurement process that initially resulted in Yutong being awarded a contract worth tens of millions under the Zebra scheme.

The authority switched to the Falkirk-based Alexander Dennis, which has a zero-emission joint venture with BYD, another Beijing-controlled company.

Sources close to Alexander Dennis said the Blackpool buses would be made outside its Chinese joint venture, but Bamford is claiming that the procurement process was badly flawed.

A spokesman for Wrightbus said they could not comment on the legal challenge while it was continuing. Blackpool Transport did not respond to a request for comment.

About a third of buses are zero-emission vehicles across the European Union and the UK, according to the consultancy Chatrou CME Solutions; of these about a third are made in China.

 

[37114]

On another thread I came across a Sunday Times article on buying buses from non-UK manufacturers with ZEBRA 1 money, which also explains the Blackpool situation (shown in bold).

Assuming the reference to "would be made outside the Chinese Joint venture' then presume the ADL buses would be integral E400ev and might offer a clue as to where the gap between ADL stating they have orders for around 150 E400ev vs 74 which have been announced by operators (55 Stagecoach Oxford, 19 Trandsev)

 

[ALEMASTER]

Some of the funding will be awarded for this financial year, so no later than 28 March (last business day before the Easter weekend).

If you're referring to ZEBRA 1 orders, here's the breakdown AIUI (all Wright buses listed are Electroliners).

Cambridgeshire & Peterborough CA - 30 Volvo/MCV BZL DD
Kent CC - 28 Irizar ieTram, 5 unknown
Leicester CC - 110 Wright (86 GB Kite, 24 Streetdeck), 6 Yutong E10
Warrington BC - 105 Volvo/MCV BZL SD
South Yorkshire CA - 23 Yutong E12, 4 BYD/ADL Enviro200EV
Norfolk CC - 70 Wright (59 Streetdeck, 11 GB Kite)
North Yorkshire CC - 20 Mercedes-Benz eCitaro, 19 ADL Enviro400EV
Portsmouth CC & Hampshire CC - 62 Wright GB Kite
Blackpool Council - none to date
Nottingham CC - 48 Yutong E10/E12
Greater Manchester CA - 170 Volvo/MCV BZL (150 DD, 20 SD)
Hertfordshire CC - none to date
West Midlands CA - none to date
City of York Council - 53 Wright (29 Streetdeck, 24 GB Kite)
West Yorkshire CA - 57 Wright (32 GB Kite, 25 Streetdeck), 47 unknown, 15 Mercedes-Benz eCitaro
Oxfordshire CC - 104 Wright (99 Streetdeck (inc. 8 open-top), 5 GB Kite), 55 ADL Enviro400EV

Thanks for that, useful detail. So in South Yorkshire the buses for Stagecoach Rawmarsh depot to operate the Rotherham to Barnsley and Doncaster services are Yutong E12s and the ones for the Sheffield City Centre Connect service are E200EVs

A bit about Derbyshire County Council bid for ZEBRA2 funding for electric buses operating out of Stagecoach Stonegravels (Chesterfield) depot can be found at https://www.derbyshire.gov.uk/trans...yshire-public-transport-news-and-notices.aspx

 

[Llandudno]

The bids are coming into public domain thick and fast now the bid deadline on Friday, 15th December has passed

Norfolk is bidding - www.edp24.co.uk/news/23971235.bid-millions-pounds-norfolk-electric-buses/ - will be interesting to see what this bid entails - given how much of First Norwich's city network is electrified, I expect this bid would entail something like the Norwich Park&Ride, Great Yarmouth or King's Lynn services or more rural services


Liverpool City Region's bid is for 24 or 58 electric double deckers to be publicly owned by Merseytravel but operated by Stagecoach Gillmoss, at least in the interim - liverpoolcityregion-ca.moderngov.co.uk/documents/g7821/Public%20reports%20pack%2015th-Dec-2023%2013.00%20Liverpool%20City%20Region%20Combined%20Authority.pdf?T=10



Plymouth/Cornwall's joint bid is for 50 electric double deckers - https://www.plymouth.gov.uk/sites/default/files/2023-12/Zero-Emission-Bus-Bid-Application.pdf


East Sussex appear to be going for 28 electric double decks for Stagecoach Eastbourne - https://x.com/KK77470/status/1725488464764797017?s=20



Derby is bidding for both electric and hydrogen buses for Arriva & Trent Barton - https://www.derby.gov.uk/news/2023/december/zebra-funding-could-pave-the-way-for-greener-buses/


Warwickshire is bidding for new electric buses with Stagecoach - https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/local-news/electric-buses-could-hit-streets-28232754



I'm also aware of a couple of other bids, including a joint one, which aren't yet public domain but will become so soon.

If TrentBarton are successful this could lead to the closure and selling of Matlock and Belper bus garages?

Could result in lots of dead mileage or reduction of early morning/late evening journeys?

 

[Trainman40083]

If TrentBarton are successful this could lead to the closure and selling of Matlock and Belper bus garages?

Could result in lots of dead mileage or reduction of early morning/late evening journeys?

I don't see why those bus depots would close. Not like any fuelling takes place there. They are just a place to park.

 

[JD2168]

Thanks for that, useful detail. So in South Yorkshire the buses for Stagecoach Rawmarsh depot to operate the Rotherham to Barnsley and Doncaster services are Yutong E12s and the ones for the Sheffield City Centre Connect service are E200EVs

A bit about Derbyshire County Council bid for ZEBRA2 funding for electric buses operating out of Stagecoach Stonegravels (Chesterfield) depot can be found at https://www.derbyshire.gov.uk/trans...yshire-public-transport-news-and-notices.aspx

With regards the Sheffield Connect E200EV buses charging points have been installed in the parking bays across from B platform at Sheffield Interchange.

Looking at the awful loadings on the Connect service I can think of normal bus routes which would be of more use for these vehicles.

 

[Mollman]

On another thread I came across a Sunday Times article on buying buses from non-UK manufacturers with ZEBRA 1 money, which also explains the Blackpool situation (shown in bold).

I don't ever recall the pledge being for all 4,000 to be British built.

 

[KX03HZY]

www.surreycc.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0010/368749/Zero-Emission-Bus-Regional-Areas-2-Bid-For-Publishing.pdf

Surrey County Council are teaming up with Falcon Buses and Whitebus to bid for 19 new electric buses - 13 for Falcon Buses routes 436 and 461, 6 for Whitebus route 446. The preferred vehicle choice for both is Yutong E10s. There is the possibility for 16 extra ZEBs for Whitebus too assuming this bid is successful.

An interesting snippet is that the 461 is planned to be increased to every 20 minutes with the 436 also increased in operation.

Surrey County Council are bidding with two SME operators, covering 3 commercially

provided local bus routes in the county.


Falcon Coaches routes are:

436 – Woking, Sheerwater, West Byfleet, Byfleet, Brooklands, Weybridge Station and

Weybridge Town Centre

461 – Chertsey, St. Peters Hospital, Ottershaw, Addlestone, Weybridge, Walton, West

Molesey, Hampton Court and Kingston


CE Jeatt (trading as White Bus) routes are:

446 - Hatton Cross, Heathrow (T4), Ashford Hospital, Staines, Penton Park, Chertsey, St

Peter's Hospital, Ottershaw and Woking


Falcon Coaches’ depot is in Byfleet, Surrey. This is their only location being proposed to

upgrade as part of ZEBRA2. The site will be upgraded to support the concurrent charging

of 10 x 10.8m vehicles.


White Bus’ depot is in Horsell, Surrey. This is their only location being proposed to

upgrade as part of ZEBRA2. The site will be upgraded to support the concurrent charging

of 22 x 10.8m vehicles. This will ensure the ability of the operator to grow their ZEB fleet

over time.


The three routes being included in the bid are all operated commercially, with all three

routes having been or will soon be enhanced.

White Bus 446 was enhanced in December 2023 with financial support from Ashford & St.

Peters Hospital Trust and extended to operate to Ashford Hospital, Heathrow Airport and

Hatton Cross. Falcon Buses service 461 is being enhanced to operate every 20 minutes

and service 436 will have enhancements to the length of the operational day and weekend

enhancements. Both of these will be funded as part of Surreys BSIP+ funding providing

improved travel opportunities to surrey residents.

The funding basis for this bid is straight forward. This is summarised below:

Falcon Coaches Bus Funding - £2,834,000

Zebra Bus Funding - £1,529,028

SCC Bus Funding - £823,323

Total Bus Funding - £5,186,350

Falcon Coaches Infrastructure Funding - £150,563

Zebra Infrastructure Funding - £451,689

Total Infrastructure Funding - £602,252.00

Total Falcon Coaches Cost - £5,788,602

Total Number of ZEBs - 13


White Bus Bus Funding - £1,284,000

Zebra Bus Funding - £721,305

SCC Bus Funding - £388,395

Total Bus Funding - £2,393,700

White Bus Infrastructure Funding - £180,550

Zebra Infrastructure Funding - £541,650

Total Infrastructure Funding - £722,200.00

Total White Bus Cost - £3,115,900

Total Number of ZEBs - 6 (with plans to expand to 22 in future financial years)

 

[47550]

I wouldn’t have thought that it would be sensible to be installing more hydrogen schemes until such a time that existing schemes are fully operational. These seem to centre around fuelling facility issues. This would affect Derby’s Zebra bid.

 

[Trainman40083]

I wouldn’t have thought that it would be sensible to be installing more hydrogen schemes until such a time that existing schemes are fully operational. These seem to centre around fuelling facility issues. This would affect Derby’s Zebra bid.

But the Derby bid included plant to produce hydrogen, did it not?

With regards the Sheffield Connect E200EV buses charging points have been installed in the parking bays across from B platform at Sheffield Interchange.

Looking at the awful loadings on the Connect service I can think of normal bus routes which would be of more use for these vehicles.

I'm often in Sheffield and I don't even know what the Sheffield Connect is.

 

[47550]

But the Derby bid included plant to produce hydrogen, did it not?


I'm often in Sheffield and I don't even know what the Sheffield Connect is.

The production of hydrogen seems to be the problem (rather than the vehicles themselves). A quick check of Bustimes shows the following in service today

Metrobus Crawley 8 out of 20 vehicles in service
Liverpool (Arriva / Stagecoach) 0 out of 20 in service.
Translink (Northern Ireland) 11 out of 23 in service.
Birmingham (National Express West Midlands) 0 out of 20 in service
Aberdeen - not tracking on bustimes but they have 25 hydrogen powered buses.
London (Metroline) 16 out of 20 in service

Total 35 out of 103 (excl Aberdeen) in service with only the London vehicles seeming to be fully utilised. Liverpool reportedly spent £12.5m on their 20 vehicles - so £625k each - which would roughly work out at £80m ( 128 vehicles x £625k ) spent on hydrogen powered vehicles to date - arguably could have been better spent on battery buses.

 

[KX03HZY]

https://democracy.devon.gov.uk/documents/s48010/BUS%20Forum%2011.1.24%20HATOC%20summary.pdf

Devon are bidding with Stagecoach for new EVs in Exeter and North Devon, very little detail otherwise:

• Stagecoach and Devon County Council have put in a bid – awaiting a decision from the DFT which will be in
March 2024
• Proposal includes electrifying routes in both Exeter and North Devon