ZEBRA 2 Discussion

[YorkRailFan]

£143 million for better bus journeys as almost a thousand zero emission buses to hit the road

Rural areas in England will be prioritised to receive new buses, which will improve the passenger experience.

www.gov.uk

Millions of bus passengers will enjoy cleaner, more reliable and more comfortable journeys as the government invests a further £143 million to roll out almost a thousand new zero emission buses in England.

Today (22 March 2024), Transport Secretary Mark Harper has confirmed that 955 zero emission buses will hit the road as 25 councils receive funding to decarbonise their bus fleets, with rural areas prioritised as part of the government’s plan to improve local transport.

From Derbyshire to Devon, to Torbay and the Tees Valley, the new investment will make local bus fleets more efficient, more comfortable and more sustainable while improving the local journeys that so many people rely on.

The funding comes from the second round of the Zero Emission Bus Regional Areas (ZEBRA) programme, which will see new electric buses in towns, villages and cities across England, including the most rural parts of the country, many of which will get zero emission buses for the first time.

Thanks to the ZEBRA scheme, no other European country registered as many electric buses in 2023 as the UK, with zero emission buses accounting for almost half of all new large buses introduced last year, according to the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT).

Today’s investment follows over £270 million to 16 local transport authorities (LTAs) and councils from the first round of ZEBRA funding, bringing the total government support to roll out zero emission buses to more than £413 million across 41 LTAs.

As more than half of electric buses from the first round of the ZEBRA scheme are manufactured in the UK, introducing up to 955 new electric buses will continue to help support skilled UK jobs and grow the economy.

To make sure more parts of England benefit from better buses and green technology, particularly rural areas where the journey towards decarbonising buses is in its early stages, the government has prioritised the first £40 million for rural communities.

The funding is in addition to more than £3.5 billion the government has invested since 2020 to protect and improve bus services in England. Thanks to reallocated High Speed 2 (HS2) funding, the £2 bus fare cap has also been extended all the way to 31 December 2024 and a further £1 billion is being invested to improve bus services in the north and the Midlands.

The new zero emission buses follow £4.7 billion of reallocated HS2 funding invested directly into the north and Midlands through the Local Transport Fund to invest in improvements such as refurbished local bus stations and improve local connections for more people, in more places, more quickly.

Transport Secretary, Mark Harper, said:

As part of our plan to improve local transport across the country, we’re providing a further £143 million to improve journeys for bus passengers particularly in rural areas, with almost a thousand brand new, zero emission buses due to hit the road.

This latest investment into our bus fleet comes on top of the £3.5 billion we have invested into our bus network since 2020, protecting and improving bus routes into 2025 as well as extending the £2 bus fare cap until the end of 2024, made possible by reallocated HS2 funding.

The new state-of-the-art buses will improve the passenger experience, providing users with considerably quieter and more comfortable journeys.

The new zero emission buses will also drive on smoother roads thanks to £8.3 billion to resurface over 5,000 miles of roads in England over the next decade, the biggest ever funding uplift to improve local roads, all thanks to reallocated HS2 funding.

Alison Edwards, Director of Policy and External Relations at the Confederation of Passenger Transport (CPT), said:

CPT welcomes this support from government to help accelerate vital public and private investment in new zero emissions vehicles and charging infrastructure.

The transition to a zero emission bus fleet is a huge opportunity for Britain to lead the world in creating a modern zero emission bus network that offers a growing number of passengers one of the most sustainable forms of transport.

The new zero emission buses will not only be cleaner, helping improve local air quality both for bus users and local communities, but they will also be more modern and replace older diesel buses.

They will also meet enhanced accessibility standards and will come with the latest passenger experience features, such as wifi and USB charging sockets.

Government now confirms to £143 million to get 955 EVs in service.

 

[43055]

Diamond have confirmed that 6 of the vehicles in the Staffordshire bid will be for Diamond East Midlands routes 8 & 9 will be Custom Denning Element's.

New Electric Buses for Staffordshire | Diamond Bus

www.diamondbuses.com

Diamond Bus are delighted to confirm that we have been awarded Government funding to bring new Electric Buses to services in Burton.

Staffordshire County Council worked with Diamond Bus and other operators to prepare the county’s Zebra2 bid (Zero Emission Bus Regional Areas fund). Today the confirmation of a £3.1million award for the region has been confirmed.

The funding will be used to support Zero Emission buses in the county, which will include 6 brand new Diamond Electric Vehicles on routes 8 and 9 in Burton.

Rotala Limited, the parent company of Diamond Bus East Midlands, will also be directly investing to support the introduction of EV vehicles into its Staffordshire fleet. The Diamond depot based at Burton on Trent will benefit from infrastructure upgrades including Solar panel technology and Electrical Vehicle charging points.

Simon Dunn, CEO of Rotala Ltd, the parent company of Diamond Bus, said: “Diamond Bus are very proud and excited to be working with Staffordshire County Council to deliver some great benefits to Burton bus passengers. The award of this funding will enable us to invest in brand new electric buses for the region, along with the necessary infrastructure to support these vehicles. This means we can forge ahead with our key goals of bringing cleaner and greener bus services to the Staffordshire community.”

Dave Atkinson, Staffordshire County Council’s assistant director for connectivity and sustainability said: “The provision of new electric buses across the county will provide sustainable transport options in our main towns with backing from government funds. We have put together strong bids with bus companies to secure this funding."



Pictured above, A Custom Denning Element Electric Bus, which will operate on services 8 & 9 in Burton.

 

[Trainman40083]

Diamond have confirmed that 6 of the vehicles in the Staffordshire bid will be for Diamond East Midlands routes 8 & 9 will be Custom Denning Element's.

New Electric Buses for Staffordshire | Diamond Bus

www.diamondbuses.com

Wow. Buying buses from Australia.

 

[47550]

No, for Zebra 1 about half the orders went overseas (mainly Yutong and Volvo).

I think it was only something like 12% were English built, the balance coming from Scotland and Northern Ireland

Seems poor planning from the government that half the money ends up with overseas manufacturers. Surely better policy to support UK jobs (IMHO).

 

[Leedsbusman]

Seems poor planning from the government that half the money ends up with overseas manufacturers. Surely better policy to support UK jobs (IMHO).

It isn’t the government’s job to force companies to order from a particular supplier. I doubt there is capacity in the UK to build all anyway.

 

[Edvid]

I believe where the 955 buses are concerned, 818 are for the big groups and 79 are for everyone else. That still leaves 58 I'm unable to attribute, and they may / may not be for Stagecoach (whose claimed involvement in 11 winning bids nets 425 buses, or the 367 buses they claim if you exclude Tees Valley and Transport North East).

Wow. Buying buses from Australia.

One Dunn brother (Simon) runs Rotala and the other (Scott, who lives in Australia nowadays) runs Custom Denning. Won't be the first such order either; four were previously ordered without ZEBRA funding.

 

[820KDV]

Seems poor planning from the government that half the money ends up with overseas manufacturers. Surely better policy to support UK jobs (IMHO).

Laudable sentiments, but I think you're missing a big part of the way ZEBRA works.

The Government isn't handing out cash to completely cover the cost of the buses and infrastructure, operators are expected to fund the cost of equivalent new diesel buses, and ZEBRA makes up 75% of the additional cost, still leaving 25% to be found. Likewise with the charging points, grid connections and so on, ZEBRA only funds 75% of the cost, the rest coming from somewhere else. In the case of the bid I worked on the Local Transport Authority is putting £1million in, so I think (bus types, and therefore prices, changed very late on in the bid process) we ended up asking for about 72% of the difference across the project.

With the operator putting so much in from their own pocket it is only reasonable to let them go with the vehicles they prefer, which will often be what fits in with the rest of their fleet. In our case a low railway bridge ruled out their first choice single deck buses as the roof mounted batteries on them wouldn't fit, which is another consideration beyond simply "buy British".

 

[KX03HZY]

I believe where the 955 buses are concerned, 818 are for the big groups and 79 are for everyone else. That still leaves 58 I'm unable to attribute, and they may / may not be for Stagecoach (whose claimed involvement in 11 winning bids nets 425 buses, or the 367 buses they claim if you exclude Tees Valley and Transport North East).


One Dunn brother (Simon) runs Rotala and the other (Scott, who lives in Australia nowadays) runs Custom Denning. Won't be the first such order either; four were previously ordered without ZEBRA funding.

Wouldn't those 58 be the double deck ones being directly bought by Liverpool City Region for Gillmoss? And in the meantime (until franchising) operated by Stagecoach

 

[Edvid]

Yes, that would explain why those aren't included in the declared Stagecoach total.

There are a few more successful 50+ bus bids than I was expecting, helped by the extra £13.8 million for rural authorities not reducing the £104 million awarded to the others.

 

[HullRailMan]

I can’t help but see this as a complete waste of money and a real missed opportunity - £143m to swap existing vehicles for new ones, doing nothing to expand services. The money would be better used to increase frequencies or provide services to unserved/underserved areas. Still, all concerned can tick a green box and feel smug.

 

[Snow1964]

I can’t help but see this as a complete waste of money and a real missed opportunity - £143m to swap existing vehicles for new ones, doing nothing to expand services. The money would be better used to increase frequencies or provide services to unserved/underserved areas. Still, all concerned can tick a green box and feel smug.

It will take about 18-24 months for all the buses to be delivered, and ultimately hundreds of buses per year would have been replaced anyway, generally cascades within fleets will happen and buses that were built to 15-20 year old emissions specs will go.

It is a capital grant (upto 75% of cost of more expensive but cleaner drivetrain), not an operating subsidy to pay for more drivers or services which don't cover their costs. But of course can always argue that taxpayers tax could be spent on other things.

 

[HullRailMan]

It will take about 18-24 months for all the buses to be delivered, and ultimately hundreds of buses per year would have been replaced anyway, generally cascades within fleets will happen and buses that were built to 15-20 year old emissions specs will go.

It is a capital grant (upto 75% of cost of more expensive but cleaner drivetrain), not an operating subsidy to pay for more drivers or services which don't cover their costs. But of course can always argue that taxpayers tax could be spent on other things.

You’ve made my point for me - £143m to replace vehicles that would have to be replaced anyway within the next few years. Meanwhile, the net effect on service provision is zero. I fail to see what benefit the taxpayer is getting for this.

 

[KX03HZY]

It's also designed to pump prime private investment into ZEBs and bring them to scale. Hopefully, we are closer to having commercially-funded ZEBs on a more widespread basis as ZEBRA can't go on for ever, as good a scheme it is. I expect there will be a round 3 and then the curtain will be called.

 

[Stan Drews]

You’ve made my point for me - £143m to replace vehicles that would have to be replaced anyway within the next few years. Meanwhile, the net effect on service provision is zero. I fail to see what benefit the taxpayer is getting for this.

It is £143m to make the replacement buses zero emission, rather than diesel. Nothing to do with the level of service provision.

 

[HullRailMan]

It is £143m to make the replacement buses zero emission, rather than diesel. Nothing to do with the level of service provision.

I know - haven’t you read what I put? It’s a waste of money that would be better invested in service provision.

 

[Leedsbusman]

I know - haven’t you read what I put? It’s a waste of money that would be better invested in service provision.

In your opinion. Others may disagree!

 

[HullRailMan]

In your opinion. Others may disagree!

Of course, but no one has yet to put forward a compelling argument to explain how spending so much money to achieve nothing represents good value. ‘Zero emission’ buses will have the most negligible effect on air quality, and the vehicles would be replaced anyway over the next few years.

 

[47550]

Laudable sentiments, but I think you're missing a big part of the way ZEBRA works.

The Government isn't handing out cash to completely cover the cost of the buses and infrastructure, operators are expected to fund the cost of equivalent new diesel buses, and ZEBRA makes up 75% of the additional cost, still leaving 25% to be found. Likewise with the charging points, grid connections and so on, ZEBRA only funds 75% of the cost, the rest coming from somewhere else. In the case of the bid I worked on the Local Transport Authority is putting £1million in, so I think (bus types, and therefore prices, changed very late on in the bid process) we ended up asking for about 72% of the difference across the project.

With the operator putting so much in from their own pocket it is only reasonable to let them go with the vehicles they prefer, which will often be what fits in with the rest of their fleet. In our case a low railway bridge ruled out their first choice single deck buses as the roof mounted batteries on them wouldn't fit, which is another consideration beyond simply "buy British".

I don't agree. My view is that it isn't unreasonable for the government to add conditions to the grant awards. They are after all funding most of the purchase price. We now have perfectly good UK electric bus manufacturers so why not keep as much of the money within the UK economy as possible. If there isn't the capacity with UK manufacturers currently then this requirement would give current manufacturers an incentive to expand production facilities (= more UK jobs) or other manufacturers to set up in the UK (also = more UK jobs). This has helped in the railway industry with new factories in Goole, Newport and Newton Aycliffe in the last 10 or so years.

In your case I would argue that if there is no current UK supplier of single deck buses that meet the route's height restriction then maybe it isn't suitable (yet) for electric vehicles. I'm sure you have other routes that would be suitable.

Of course, but no one has yet to put forward a compelling argument to explain how spending so much money to achieve nothing represents good value. ‘Zero emission’ buses will have the most negligible effect on air quality, and the vehicles would be replaced anyway over the next few years.

With new technology it is inevitable that new buses will cost more than diesel buses to produce. In theory, prices should fall as production volumes rise and become more efficient. Whether this happens or not remains to be seen, but if the government didn't put funding in place to kick start conversion then it would never happen.

 

[820KDV]

I don't agree. My view is that it isn't unreasonable for the government to add conditions to the grant awards. They are after all funding most of the purchase price. We now have perfectly good UK electric bus manufacturers so why not keep as much of the money within the UK economy as possible. If there isn't the capacity with UK manufacturers currently then this requirement would give current manufacturers an incentive to expand production facilities (= more UK jobs) or other manufacturers to set up in the UK (also = more UK jobs). This has helped in the railway industry with new factories in Goole, Newport and Newton Aycliffe in the last 10 or so years.

In your case I would argue that if there is no current UK supplier of single deck buses that meet the route's height restriction then maybe it isn't suitable (yet) for electric vehicles. I'm sure you have other routes that would be suitable.

First of all the Government is NOT funding most of the purchase price, it is funding 75% of the DIFFERENCE between the price of a new diesel bus and the electric equivalent. There is huge investment from the bus companies here, and in some cases investment from local councils too.

As for the low bridge, I didn't say that has led to a non-UK built bus being selected, but was pointing out that "buy British" can't be the only consideration. And I suggest that if the buses on that route remained diesel while the rest of the city went electric would, probably, have diluted the bid and may have led to its rejection.

You are of course entitled to your view, but as someone who actually worked long hours on a ZEBRA2 bid with our industry partner I can say that things on the inside aren't as simple as they may seem on the outside.

I know - haven’t you read what I put? It’s a waste of money that would be better invested in service provision.

To take the case of the bid I was involved with, the operator we are partnering with can't find enough drivers to make the BSIP2 funded enhancements we want to make on their network. And they are not alone, of the 8 BSIP2 enhancement schemes we want to do, one has started, two start next month, one is planned for September and the others have no date as the operators don't feel that they can resource them (drivers at one company and buses at the another).

On the other hand, part of our ZEBRA2 bid mentioned that a fleet of new electric buses would be marketed in a new way, and that would include employment opportunities, for drivers and maintenance staff. Investment like this creates a feel-good factor in the workplace, reducing staff turnover, and the whole "electric" vibe is seen as a positive by the public, so a career in that business might become more attractive. I know that the preceding sentences are far from the hard numbers we'd like to see, I agree they are all rather woolly, and based on hope rather than fact, but as it currently stands we simply can't spend the better service provision funding we have.

 

[DaveHarries]

Cornwall Council - Bidding jointly with Plymouth Council and Plymouth Citybus for 50 double deck EVs, 6 of which would run into Cornwall as well as 7 single deck EVs for Truro Park and Ride and 1 for Falmouth Town Bus
Devon County Council - bidding with Stagecoach for new EVs for Exeter & North Devon
North Somerset Council - reportedly bidding for Weston town services but no bid details in the public domain yet
Somerset Council - reportedly bidding but no bid details in the public domain yet
Swindon Borough Council - not been able to locate any bid publicly
West of England Mayoral Combined Authority - bidding with First for 74 EVs (67 double decks and 7 singles) for Hengrove depot in Bristol

Further to the above, and with links to relevant news sources of information:
- Cornwall Council: the EVs for Go Cornwall Bus will be for Services 70/70A/70B between Plymouth, Torpoint and Rame Peninsula. EVs also for Truro Park & Ride (£1.3m from ZEBRA towards infrastructure and buses) and for OTS, in a bid backed by Falmouth Town Council, to use on the Falmouth Town service.

Cornwall ‘amps up’ on climate ambitions as funding announced for county’s first electric buses

The entire Truro Park & Ride fleet will be replaced with electric buses and there will also be a new electric bus for the Falmouth Town Service and a further six electric buses in south-east Cornwall

www.cornwall.gov.uk

- Devon County Council: EVs for routes A, 4, 4A & Green Park & Ride in Exeter as well as for Services 21 & 21A in North Devon and town services in Barnstaple. The news item from Devon CC also says there are plans afoot for a community charging hub at Matford depot, Exeter.

Devon awarded £5.3 million for zero emission buses - News

A fleet of 41 electric buses are set to take to Devon’s roads in Exeter, North Devon and Torridge.

www.devon.gov.uk

- North Somerset Council: no mention of electric buses for Weston town services in NSC's news item but confirms 24 electric buses for Services X1 (Weston-s-Mare to Bristol) and X4 (Bristol - Portishead). Good news but what is the combined PVR of the X1 and X4? I wouldn't have thought it amounts to 24 vehicles.

Greener electric buses will soon be on roads thanks to £15M investment

New electric buses will be on North Somerset roads from early next year, after North Somerset Council successfully bid for £15million of new funding for greener buses across the region.

n-somerset.gov.uk

- Somerset Council: joint bid with Buses of Somerset has been successful for electric buses to operate in and around Taunton. The routes to benefit from these 25 vehicles (a mix of single-deck and double-deck) will likely be Taunton town services 1 and 2 along with services 21, 21A, 22 and 28.

Somerset to get 25 new electric buses for the county’s network in major £14.7m investment

www.somerset.gov.uk

- Swindon Borough Council: nothing on SBC's website so presumably no bid.

- West of England Combined Authority: 74 vehicles and a full reorganisation of Hengrove depot costing £44m (£6.6m from ZEBRA, £37.4m from First). 7x single-deck (Service 8: should see off the Streetlites - good!) and 67x double deck (Services 24, 70, 72, 73, 75 & 76)

First Bus invests over £50m in electric buses in the West of England

First West of England is to invest more than £50m introducing its first electric buses in the region.

news-wew.firstbus.co.uk

Regional Mayor secures cash to power up 70+ electric buses - West of England Combined Authority

More than 70 fully electric buses - along with the charging infrastructure needed to support them - will be coming to the West of England, Mayor Dan Norris announced. The Mayor has successfully secured £6.6 million of funding in partnership with First Bus so the region can get on with a plan to...

www.westofengland-ca.gov.uk

HTIOI,
Dave[/b]

 

[KX03HZY]

I've been going through the ZEBRA2 winners and finding out a bit more details about what the bids involve:



North West
Liverpool City Region Combined Authority - £9.4m in ZEBRA grant and £22m of authority funding for 58 double deck EVs for routes 14, 17, 19 and 20/21 - to be based at Gillmoss depot and operated by Stagecoach (owned by LCRCA), at least until franchising comes in later this decade.
(£9.4m for 58)


North East
Tees Valley Combined Authority - £7.4m in ZEBRA grant for 62 EVs - 7 for Arriva Darlington route 2, 15 for Arriva Redcar route 63 and 40 for Stagecoach Stockton.
Transport North East - £7.4m in ZEBRA grant for 43 EVs - 14 double decks for Arriva Durham routes 48, 64 and X46 based at Belmont depot, 7 double deck and 4 single deck EVs for Go North East Riverside routes 58 and X66 and 18 single decks for Stagecoach Slatyford routes 30/31/36
(£14.8m for 105)



Yorkshire and the Humber
Hull City and East Riding of Yorkshire Council - £5.7m in ZEBRA grant for 40 EVs - 21 for East Yorkshire routes 56, 57 and 66 and 19 for Stagecoach Hull routes 3 and 5.
(£5.7m for 40)


East Midlands

Derbyshire County Council - £5.1m in ZEBRA grant and £25.31m of operator funding for 57 EVs - 39 double deckers and 18 single deckers for Stagecoach Chesterfield routes 1/1a, 5, 25, 39, 43, 44, 50, 51, 54, 74/74a, 77 and X17 [rural bid]

Leicestershire County Council - £8.1m in ZEBRA grant for 46 EVs - 25 double deckers for Arriva Leicester routes 5/5a and 127 and 21 single deckers for Kinchbus routes 2, 5, 9, 11, 12, sprint and Loughborough Uni Campus shuttle [rural bid]

Nottinghamshire County Council - £2.8m in ZEBRA grant and £10.2m of operator funding for 23 EVs - 10 single deckers and 13 double deckers for Stagecoach Mansfield routes 1, 6, 7 and 16 [rural bid]

West Northamptonshire Council - £9.4m in ZEBRA grant and £18.6m of operation funding for 51 EVs for Stagecoach Northampton
(£25.4m for 177)



West Midlands

Staffordshire County Council - £3.1m in ZEBRA grant for 17 EVs - 11 double decks for Arriva Tamworth route 110 and 6 Custom Denning single decks for Diamond Burton routes 8/9 [rural bid]

Warwickshire County Council - £4.3m for 27 EVs for Stagecoach Warwickshire routes 1, 4, 5/5a, 9, 10, 48a, 77/78 [rural bid]

(£7.4m for 44)



South West

Cornwall Council - £1.3m in ZEBRA grant and £1.9m of council and operator funding for 8 EVs for Truro Park and Ride and Falmouth Town Bus
Devon County Council - £5.3m in ZEBRA grant and £15m of operator funding for 41 EVs for Stagecoach Exeter routes 4, route A and Green Park and Ride, North Devon routes 21/21 and Barnstaple town routes [rural bid]

Gloucestershire County Council - £5.9m in ZEBRA grant and £24m of council and operator funding for 58 EVs - 42 for Stagecoach West routes 1, 2, 41, 42, 43, 71, 94/94x and T, 15 for Pulhams routes 99, 777, 801, 802, 855, P, Q and L, 1 minibus for Lydney Dial a Ride [ruraL bid]

North Somerset Council - £2.1m in ZEBRA grant and £12.8m in operator funding for 24 EVs - 24 double decks for First Weston routes X1 and X4 [rural bid]

Plymouth City Council - £9.5m in ZEBRA grant and £18.6m of operator funding for 50 EVs - 50 for Plymouth Citybus including 6 for Go Cornwall Bus routes 70/70a/70b
Somerset Council - £2.2m in ZEBRA grant and £12.5m of operator funding for 25 EVs - 13 single deckers and 12 double deckers for First Taunton routes 1, 2, 21, 22, 28 [rural bids]

Torbay Council - £7.1m in ZEBRA grant and £18m of operator funding for 49 EVs for Stagecoach Torbay including route 12
West of England Mayoral Combined Authority - £6.6m and £37m of operator funding for 74 EVs - 7 single deckers and 67 double deckers for First Hengrove routes
Wiltshire Council - £3.4m in ZEBRA grant and £8m of council and operator funding for 23 EVs - double and single deckers including Park and Ride and Stonehenge Tour
(£43.4m for 352)



South East

Brighton and Hove City Council - £2.9m in ZEBRA grant and £7.6m in operator fudning for 16 EVs - 16 double deckers for Brighton & Hove route 7
Essex County Council - £4.8m in ZEBRA grant and £25.8m in operator funding for 55 EVs - 31 single deckers and 24 double deckers for Basildon routes including services to Lakeside, Chelmsford and Southend
Isle of Wight - £4.5m in ZEBRA grant and £8.2m in operator funding for 22 EVs - 22 double deckers for Southern Vectis routes 1, 5 and 9
Reading Borough Council - £4.7m in ZEBRA grant for 24 EVs - 24 double deckers for Reading Buses routes 17 and 21
Surrey County Council - £3.2m in ZEBRA grant and £6.7m in council and operator funding for 19 EVs - 13 for Falcon routes 436 and 461 and 6 for Whitebus route 446 - Yutong E10 preferred tpye
West Sussex County Council - £10.1m in ZEBRA grant and £14m in council, operator and partner funding for 43 FCEVs - 24 double deckers, 4 long single deckers and 15 standard single deckers for Metrobus Crawley routes 21, 22, 23, 61, 93, 270, 271, 272, 273, 281, 291 and 400 - Wright Hydroliner preferred type
(£30.2m for 179)



955 buses in total
EVs - battery electric buses
FCEVs - hydrogen fuel cell buses

Any gaps in the level of detail mentioned above is due to lack of information avaliable - if anyone wants to help me out with this feel free!

 

[DanNCL]

Transport North East - £7.4m in ZEBRA grant for 43 EVs - 14 double decks for Arriva Durham routes 48, 64 and X46 based at Belmont depot, 7 double deck and 4 single deck EVs for Go North East Riverside routes 58 and X66 and 18 single decks for Stagecoach Slatyford routes 30/31/36

I'm not disputing any of this, but apart from the 48, 64 and X66, none of these make sense. The 30/31/36 really need deckers (and indeed have a mixed single/double deck allocation at present), whilst the 58 doesn't really need deckers yet is getting them. And as for the X46, an express route to rural Weardale you'd think would be one of the last to convert to EVs! Unless there's plans to axe the Stanhope extensions and cut the route back to Crook?

Go North East's 21 was supposed to have had a bid placed for ZEBRA funding and would very likely have had a stronger business case than most if not all of those above, especially the X46, but then the 21 doesn't go through the constituency of the (until recently) roads minister, unlike the X46.

 

[KX03HZY]

I'm not disputing any of this, but apart from the 48, 64 and X66, none of these make sense. The 30/31/36 really need deckers (and indeed have a mixed single/double deck allocation at present), whilst the 58 doesn't really need deckers yet is getting them. And as for the X46, an express route to rural Weardale you'd think would be one of the last to convert to EVs! Unless there's plans to axe the Stanhope extensions and cut the route back to Crook?

Go North East's 21 was supposed to have had a bid placed for ZEBRA funding and would very likely have had a stronger business case than most if not all of those above, especially the X46, but then the 21 doesn't go through the constituency of the (until recently) roads minister, unlike the X46.

The 21 is getting a full allocation of EVs via the Levelling Up fund.

The fact the X46 is rural is the whole point of it being included in the bid, there was £25-40 million ringfenced for rural bids, the rural definition based off a number of factors.

 

[Edvid]

I've been going through the ZEBRA2 winners and finding out a bit more details about what the bids involve:

[...]

Was going to post a summary of that very list but you've done a better job than I would have!

From a certain viewpoint the Surrey bid is perhaps the most notable as it involves a pair of SMEs without big/medium group backing, along with the possibility of another 16 EVs for White Bus (with council subsidy) in future.

 

[47550]

West Sussex County Council - £10.1m in ZEBRA grant and £14m in council, operator and partner funding for 43 FCEVs - 24 double deckers, 4 long single deckers and 15 standard single deckers for Metrobus Crawley routes 21, 22, 23, 61, 93, 270, 271, 272, 273, 281, 291 and 400 - Wright Hydroliner preferred type

It say's in the press release that this funding is conditional - presumably this is until the issues around hydrogen fuel supply for the existing FCEVs in Crawley are sorted out.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I'm not disputing any of this, but apart from the 48, 64 and X66, none of these make sense. The 30/31/36 really need deckers (and indeed have a mixed single/double deck allocation at present), whilst the 58 doesn't really need deckers yet is getting them. And as for the X46, an express route to rural Weardale you'd think would be one of the last to convert to EVs! Unless there's plans to axe the Stanhope extensions and cut the route back to Crook?

Go North East's 21 was supposed to have had a bid placed for ZEBRA funding and would very likely have had a stronger business case than most if not all of those above, especially the X46, but then the 21 doesn't go through the constituency of the (until recently) roads minister, unlike the X46.

The fact the X46 is rural is the whole point of it being included in the bid, there was £25-40 million ringfenced for rural bids, the rural definition based off a number of factors.

There's a couple of X46 workings ostensibly for New College, I think. The rest of the X46 is an fairly intensive, inter-urban service, with not much countryside between Durham and Brandon, and then serving sizeable villages in Brancepeth and Willington. It's also not an express. It's exactly the sort of rural service that would get funding.

 

[DanNCL]

The 21 is getting a full allocation of EVs via the Levelling Up fund.

Ah ok, thanks. That explains why it’s not on the ZEBRA list!

There's a couple of X46 workings ostensibly for New College, I think. The rest of the X46 is an fairly intensive, inter-urban service, with not much countryside between Durham and Brandon, and then serving sizeable villages in Brancepeth and Willington. It's also not an express. It's exactly the sort of rural service that would get funding.

Yes Stanhope is only peak hour extensions but it’s still very rural and the vehicles will need to be suitable for it.
Durham - Brandon makes up less than a third of the route. Brancepeth is tiny. Granted Willington is sizeable but that’s it, beyond Brandon it’s really the only place of note on the route to Crook. It’s otherwise running almost entirely a 60mph A road.

If EVs are suitable for that then there’s no justification (other than cost cutting) for continued production of new diesel buses.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Yes Stanhope is only peak hour extensions but it’s still very rural and the vehicles will need to be suitable for it.
Durham - Brandon makes up less than a third of the route. Brancepeth is tiny. Granted Willington is sizeable but that’s it, beyond Brandon it’s really the only place of note on the route to Crook. It’s otherwise running almost entirely a 60mph A road.

If EVs are suitable for that then there’s no justification (other than cost cutting) for continued production of new diesel buses.

Brancepeth isn't the biggest, granted, but I meant it's not as small as somewhere like Helmington Row.

Otherwise, it's an intensive bus service. It's 30 mins end to end, has a 20 min frequency (30 mins on a Sunday) and it's a busy route with Brandon/Langley Moor, and what is essentially a small town in Willington en route. There's about 250/260 journeys each way, and 5 start at Stanhope so it's ideal for the ZEBRA2.

 

[158756]

Ah ok, thanks. That explains why it’s not on the ZEBRA list!


Yes Stanhope is only peak hour extensions but it’s still very rural and the vehicles will need to be suitable for it.
Durham - Brandon makes up less than a third of the route. Brancepeth is tiny. Granted Willington is sizeable but that’s it, beyond Brandon it’s really the only place of note on the route to Crook. It’s otherwise running almost entirely a 60mph A road.

If EVs are suitable for that then there’s no justification (other than cost cutting) for continued production of new diesel buses.

it's about 3 miles from Brandon to Willington and barely a mile from the edge of Willington to Crook. Compared to a lot of rural routes that's not much. The buses also appear to interwork with the 48, which should help, and the operating days aren't particularly long for most vehicles with services starting after 6am and only an hourly service after 6pm.

I don't know how many routes there still are that EVs wouldn't be able to manage, but I doubt it's that many now. The costs are the big issue, which is why the ZEBRA scheme exists.

 

[Teapot42]

I've been going through the ZEBRA2 winners and finding out a bit more details about what the bids involve:

...

East Midlands

Derbyshire County Council - £5.1m in ZEBRA grant and £25.31m of operator funding for 57 EVs - 39 double deckers and 18 single deckers for Stagecoach Chesterfield routes 1/1a, 5, 25, 39, 43, 44, 50, 51, 54, 74/74a, 77 and X17 [rural bid]

How does the Derbyshire bid qualify as rural? Only a small amount of three of those services could be classed as rural* - indeed, the Stagecoach services that are actually rural seem to be excluded from those which will be operated by EVs.

Part of my is happy that we are getting EVs here, indeed quite surprised as Chesterfield normally gets older buses cascaded, but I'm also slightly concerned as the criteria seemed to indicate previous winners would not get priority in future bidding rounds, meaning there is less chance of the actual rural network getting funding in future.

I'm interested how the timetables will change as a result of charging requirements - the distances each vehicle operates on the X17 in particular meet or exceed the range of current EVs. Will we see 'short' services or passengers having to change vehicle? Or longer layovers in Sheffield if they are able to make use of the chargers recently installed there.

* I'd say the 1 beyond Bolsover, the 77 between Clowne and Worksop, and the X17 south of Chesterfield could arguably be classed as rural. The rest is very much urban.