New London Routemaster buses

[All Line Rover]

I don't like the current design of double decker buses, so I will be interested to see if this new design is any better.

The one thing I don't understand is why each bus needs a "conductor" to man the rear entrance? Surely an Oyster reader, with frequent spot checks by RPI's (and subsequent prosecutions) would be sufficient to deter fare evasion?

 

[Anon Mouse]

I don't like the current design of double decker buses, so I will be interested to see if this new design is any better.

The one thing I don't understand is why each bus needs a "conductor" to man the rear entrance? Surely an Oyster reader, with frequent spot checks by RPI's (and subsequent prosecutions) would be sufficient to deter fare evasion?

you mean just like on DOO trains? :roll:

 

[Deerfold]

I don't like the current design of double decker buses, so I will be interested to see if this new design is any better.

The one thing I don't understand is why each bus needs a "conductor" to man the rear entrance? Surely an Oyster reader, with frequent spot checks by RPI's (and subsequent prosecutions) would be sufficient to deter fare evasion?

It's for safety reasons, although quite how (s)he stops people hopping on and off I don't know.

Wonder if any of the old conductors will get a chance.

Sounds like the back door will be closed and locked in the evening.

 

[Anon Mouse]

The two staircases and rear open platform is just a gimmic to feed Boris's ego. There was nowt wrong with the bendy buses, they have adapted well in the North East with GNE. No matter how impressive they look they are just an expensive gimmick and perhaps the money could have been much better spent elsewhere?

I bet any money that in the future the rear door will be either permantley LOOU or even removed, proabably after the first accident to a passenger jumping on or off when its moving or falling out when its full and standing!

 

[transmanche]

The one thing I don't understand is why each bus needs a "conductor" to man the rear entrance? Surely an Oyster reader, with frequent spot checks by RPI's (and subsequent prosecutions) would be sufficient to deter fare evasion?

That's exactly what they do have, Oyster readers at all doors (see attached pics) - just like the bendy-buses. And the conductor won't be doing fares; the driver will do those outside of central London (with pay-before-boarding in central London).

It's for safety reasons, although quite how (s)he stops people hopping on and off I don't know.

Sounds like the back door will be closed and locked in the evening.

Apparently the conductor isn't supposed to stop people hopping on/off, they're there just to 'supervise' and 'offer travel advice'. Conductors are meant to work til approx 10pm - with the rear door operated by the driver after that.

There was nowt wrong with the bendy buses, they have adapted well in the North East with GNE.

True - well apart from the seats, which I never found comfortable. However, GNE just use them as a very long conventional single-decker (with boarding at front doors only, pay the driver as normal and the centre/rear doors are exit only) which loses much of the 'bendy-bus benefit', compared to how they were used in London.

 

[bb21]

I wonder how much seating capacity is removed by having a second set of staircase, and how much more it adds to the operating costs by having a second member of staff.

 

[Schnellzug]

I wonder how much seating capacity is removed by having a second set of staircase, and how much more it adds to the operating costs by having a second member of staff.

Costs never seem to be a consideration in London, which seems to operate on different principles to the rest of the planet...
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Wonder how many London will buy if Ken gets in...

Actually yes, considering the amount the Wrights must have invested in it, there must surely be provisions for a good deal of compensation built into the contract, it'd be such a gamble staking so much on what could be just a political football..

 

[Deerfold]

Costs never seem to be a consideration in London, which seems to operate on different principles to the rest of the planet...

Savings are being made - it used to be normal to specify new buses with every new contract. Most of the recent ones have specified existing buses. Which may have knock-on effects for the rest of the country.

Lots of savings with reductions in back-office staff at London Buses too.

 

[bb21]

So in a simplified manner, would it be correct to say that without Boris's ego trip, many people could have had their jobs saved?

 

[mbonwick]

Savings are being made - it used to be normal to specify new buses with every new contract. Most of the recent ones have specified existing buses. Which may have knock-on effects for the rest of the country.

That's not quite true.
The tendering process takes into account new vehicles as part of the bidding process - the vehicles are considered alongside the price offered.
Generally though, bids utilising new vehicles are seen as better value for money because of the cost of new assets - which provide a better service for Londoners and mean the company is likely to want to keep tendering in the future.

It has always been the case that vehicles were allowed to be used for 2 contract cycles (plus extensions) - so effectively a 14 year maximum age.

If you look at the fleetlists for the London operators you'll find that all have quite a lot of older vehicles requiring replacement (due to having changed contracts at some point), so new vehicles are required.

Finally, it's actually rather difficult to convert London stock for provincial use. Coupled with the way the economy is, it generally makes more sense for London to be treated as a separate business unit with vehicles on long-term hire.

 

[Ivo]

Do these things actually have proper model names (along the lines of "Trident", "Olympian", "Dart", etc), or are they officially known as the New Bus for London?

 

[Schnellzug]

Finally, it's actually rather difficult to convert London stock for provincial use. Coupled with the way the economy is, it generally makes more sense for London to be treated as a separate business unit with vehicles on long-term hire.

first (for one) have plenty of ex-London olympians and tridents and darts knocking around (some knocking more than others, obviously); mostly all that seems to be needed is to take out the middle Door. Going back to the DMS, lots of them found ready new homes when LT decided that they didn't know how to maintain them.

 

[transmanche]

I wonder how much seating capacity is removed by having a second set of staircase, and how much more it adds to the operating costs by having a second member of staff.

Of course; double-staircase, triple-door buses are not new - I know Berlin has a quite a few of them.

Costs never seem to be a consideration in London, which seems to operate on different principles to the rest of the planet...

Well, London does account for around half of all bus travel in the UK, something over 2.3 billion passenger journeys a year.

 

[mbonwick]

first (for one) have plenty of ex-London olympians and tridents and darts knocking around (some knocking more than others, obviously); mostly all that seems to be needed is to take out the middle Door. Going back to the DMS, lots of them found ready new homes when LT decided that they didn't know how to maintain them.

Yes, I should have said it is 'increasing difficult with newer models'

With the older Olympians, darts etc, they basically have the same chassis structure throughout as a single door version.
Tridents have slightly less structure round the centre door in order to fit the centre ramp in, and E400s have no structure;

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gcbp/5624950535/in/set-72157626423339749

Illustrates the point rather well.

 

[transmanche]

Finally, it's actually rather difficult to convert London stock for provincial use.

With the older Olympians, darts etc, they basically have the same chassis structure throughout as a single door version.
Tridents have slightly less structure round the centre door in order to fit the centre ramp in, and E400s have no structure;

Or they could just, er, keep the centre door and use it...

 

[DJ_K666]

From the front it looks more like an Alexander bodied Leyland Atlantean to me.

http://www.busesworldwide.org/material/galleries/medthumb/815.jpg

See what I mean?

 

[Anon Mouse]

From the front it looks more like an Alexander bodied Leyland Atlantean to me.

http://www.busesworldwide.org/material/galleries/medthumb/815.jpg

See what I mean?

That is a beauty!

 

[Schnellzug]

Or they could just, er, keep the centre door and use it...

True, but most operators oustide London prefer having as many seats as possible Downstairs.

 

[[email protected].]

In London on Sat 7 April,

Will the new Route Masters be running then, and where do the old master run?

 

[CC 72100]

In London on Sat 7 April,

Will the new Route Masters be running then, and where do the old master run?

Old routemasters are on routes 9 and 15. They do not solely operate the route, but they do it alongside modern buses as to meet disabled passanger regulations.We normally wait outside Tower Gateway DLR station, at the route 15 bus, for a routemaster back into town. I'm sure someone will be able to come along and offer more advice...

 

[150222]

Are the TFL travelcards valid on the old routemasters?

 

[Deerfold]

In London on Sat 7 April,

Will the new Route Masters be running then, and where do the old master run?

The 2nd Borismaster starts in service on Monday but they are not yet running on weekends.

Timetables for the originals are here:

http://www.londonbusroutes.net/times/009N009.htm#Heritage_MF_T
http://www.londonbusroutes.net/times/015N015.htm#MF_Heritage_T
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Are the TfL travelcards valid on the old routemasters?

Yes - ticketing is as normal for London buses (except you can pay the conductor cash or PAYG).

 

[CC 72100]

Are the TFL travelcards valid on the old routemasters?

Yep, always has been the past couple of years we've gone. Always make sure we get a ride on a routemaster, got to be done!

 

[313103]

I would just like to say " A ROUTEMASTER IT IS NOT' It is a hybrid vehicle with a open platform which can be closed off by a set of doors.

Doesnt even look like a Routemaster, so it would be nice if people stopped calling it a Routemaster.

Routemasters continue to operate on Heritage routes 9 & 15.

This new machine operates when it is actually working on route 38.

 

[Deerfold]

I would just like to say " A ROUTEMASTER IT IS NOT' It is a hybrid vehicle with a open platform which can be closed off by a set of doors.

Doesnt even look like a Routemaster, so it would be nice if people stopped calling it a Routemaster.

Routemasters continue to operate on Heritage routes 9 & 15.

It has an open platform, with a door like the London Country RMs. The RM was hardly unique in having a back platform but most people won't remember having seen anything else in service so I can understand why people call it that.

I provided a link to the timetables for where and when the actual routemasters run.

This new machine operates when it is actually working on route 38.

Has it had problems? I'm not a fan but I've seen it in operation a few times.

 

[MarkyMarkD]

It has an open platform, with a door like the London Country RMs. The RM was hardly unique in having a back platform but most people under the age of 40 won't remember having seen anything else in service so I can understand why people call it that.

A little correction! "Over the age of 40" is probably around half the UK population!

There were still a few rear platform buses running in Greater Manchester when I started secondary school there in 1979 - I used to take great pleasure in "flailing" off the rear platforms as we turned into Altrincham Interchange - as the conductors never seemed to be too bothered!

I saw one of the "Borismasters" out of the window of a hotel I was at a course on (in Holborn), last week - presumably on the 38.

 

[W-on-Sea]

London's Routemasters may have outlived open-platform buses in most parts of the UK, but don't forget that,post-deregulation (1986), loads of companies bought up surplus RMs and RMLs from London, - off the top of my head, Kelvin Scottish, Clydeside Scottish, Strathtay Scottish, Stagecoach (back when they were a small company operating largely in Perth), Reading, Southend Transport, Blackpool Transport....and I daresay others too - in some of these places the Routemasters were operating well into the 1990s.

 

[MarkyMarkD]

Those RMs didn't all last very long in their new lives. So the general end of open platform buses (outside London) was in the early 1980s in most places in the UK - by which time the newest such buses were around 15 years old.

 

[Deerfold]

A little correction! "Over the age of 40" is probably around half the UK population!

I didn't say they wouldn't have seen them.

Just that they wouldn't remember.

Particularly with RMs having been around for so much longer (in general use - I last saw an in-service rear platform non-RM bus in December 2011).

 

[MarkyMarkD]

I'm not trying to be difficult but lots of people (a) have memories which work and (b) aren't frequent visitors of London (or in fact, never go there at all). I think for most "older" people, seeing an RM in London reminds them of how buses used to be, rather than obliterating their folk memories.