New S7 Underground stock

[Class377/5]

That is correct, this can already be done by using one of the 3 S7+1 trains on the MET.
These H&C trains will detrain/entrain at Baker Street pfm2/3, running empty to/from Harrow siding and Wembley Patk siding.

District Line driver training will not be starting before August/Seotember, there is a hope that 1 train maybe introduced (using I/Os) for a regular event towards the end of August.

I'm yet to even see one of the S7+1 yet let alone travel. This will be one way of ensuring that I can get an S7 to those platforms.

Thanks for the heads up.

 

[Dstock7080]

7x S7 operating on H&C first day of new timetable.

 

[Manchester77]

Any on the circle today or are they just operating the peaks?

 

[Dstock7080]

Any on the circle today or are they just operating the peaks?

My post #201 should give you the answer that no Circle Line S7s are currently scheduled.

 

[Manchester77]

Thanks ????????????

 

[jopsuk]

As far as I've understood it, the working timetables were split so that the H&C can go entirely to S7 before the Circle gets any of them

 

[Dstock7080]

Regretfully an RMT dispute has already put paid to using the S7s from Wembley Park sidings and these are now marooned, unable to get to the H&C.

Additionally, because of delays to infrastructure readiness (mainly power supplies) it's unlikely that S7s will operate on the Circle Line before the H&C is fully converted, likely first day 30 August.

 

[12CSVT]

Plenty of S7s in service on the H & C on Friday
21301 + 21302
21307 + 21308
21309 + 21310
21311 + 21312
21315 + 21316
21325 + 21326
21331 + 21332
21339 + 21340
21341 + 21342

In addition there were at least two S7+1 on the Met
21319+22319+25382+24319+24320+25320+22320+21320
21327+22327+25386+24327+24328+25328+22328+21328

BTW are there any other S7+1 formations other than these two ?

 

[Dstock7080]

Just one more:
21323-22323-25384-24323-24324-25324-22324-21324

 

[causton]

Regretfully an RMT dispute has already put paid to using the S7s from Wembley Park sidings and these are now marooned, unable to get to the H&C.

Any more information available than that? What was wrong with Wembley Park sidings?

 

[OxtedL]

http://www.rmt.org.uk/Templates/Internal.asp?NodeID=173990

TUBE UNION RMT confirmed today that driver members at a range of depots serving the Hammersmith and City, Metropolitan and Circle Lines will be taking industrial action in a dispute arising from the introduction of the new S Stock fleet.


The announcement comes after a ballot for industrial action short of a strike concluded last week with an overwhelming vote in favour of action. Talks have since taken place with London Underground, regarding the serious problems concerning the introduction of the S Stock. Whilst some progress has been achieved at these talks, one issue remains outstanding and unresolved, which is the company’s attempt to compel Circle and Hammersmith & City Line drivers to pick up and drop off trains from Metropolitan line platforms at Baker Street Station.

http://www.rmt.org.uk/Templates/Internal.asp?NodeId=173760

The issue is at Baker Street, not Wembley per se. Someone appears to have forgotten to check with drivers whether they were happy to drive the extra train length of track each way.

 

[causton]

Ah. Ok then! *sigh*

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Why not just have the Met drivers take these workings over at Great Portland Street?

 

[OxtedL]

A number of issues are at play here, but speculatively (I don't work at LU or the RMT) I think this could be more about working practices changing too fast for general comfort. The RMT are putting on the brakes to ensure they come out on top. Which is perhaps fair enough.

What I understand has essentially happened with the Wembley stabling is that short legs at the beginning/end of H&C turns have been amputated and given to the Met. The main concern will be that this kind of thing doesn't become widespread as S7 gets rolled out onto the District too, for example. I reckon given reasonable assurances the drivers will soon cave on this one (anyone else care to speculate?), but TfL will have hopefully got the message that this is potentially a big deal.

Any issue at Baker Street issue could be sorted fairly quickly I would imagine - drivers might well already have to sign P3 as it looks as though it's on a potential W-E reverse move, but even without that it's just 3(?) new signals.

 

[Dstock7080]

9 running today:
21301/02
21307/08
21309/10
21311/12
21315/16
21325/26
21331/32
21335/36
23141/42

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Have they solved the dispute, then? I'm sure I saw two of those listed stabled at Wembley on Saturday.

 

[Daniel]

Have they solved the dispute, then? I'm sure I saw two of those listed stabled at Wembley on Saturday.

I've been told that the weekend trip's out of Wembley sidings will be cancelled for the foreseeable future.

 

[Dstock7080]

Have they solved the dispute, then? I'm sure I saw two of those listed stabled at Wembley on Saturday.

ASLEF are not involved in the dispute, which is how the trains ran today.

 

[Manchester77]

In London for the first time in 4 years got on 3 S7s and 2 S8s!! Looked like most Hammersmith and city services were S7s.

Am I right in thinking Hammersmith and city is allocated 14 trains daily?

 

[Dstock7080]

In London for the first time in 4 years got on 3 S7s and 2 S8s!! Looked like most Hammersmith and city services were S7s.

Am I right in thinking Hammersmith and city is allocated 14 trains daily?

+2 in each M-F peak.

 

[spinba11]

Is there any news about when the trains will be used on the circle line?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I believe August is the earliest chance of digrammed use.

 

[jopsuk]

It should be "once the H&C is fully S-Stock"- but there may be public trials before that.
District services will follow once the Circle is done, replacing C-Stock first.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

The Wimbleware is probably going to be the first part of the District converted as that uses C Stock.

 

[Dstock7080]

Trial runnings for driver training maybe available on other parts of the District Line before the Edgware Roads are in use.
Empty, then passenger use, would be introduced from Olympia/Parsons Green-West Ham.

Power supply issues are precluding a faster rate of introduction of these power-thirsty trains, than is hoped for at present.

 

[12CSVT]

A query regarding the additional coaches in the S7+1 sets (25382, 25384, 25386). Have the rest of the coaches for sets 21381+21382, 21383+21384 and 21385+21386 been delivered ?

 

[tranzitjim]

Why can they not just run a 7 car set, as a 7 car set when they need to use one on the Metropolitan line?

Also, should they have ordered more 8 car sets for Metropolitan line?

I understand the 8 car sets are too long for some parts of the network, but otherwise they should be able to run 'as is' on any line on the network.

Could all 7 car sets be modified to all become 8 car or 7+1 car sets?

When they take a car out of an 8 car set to become an 8-1 set, they just take the car out. But when it is 7+1, will there be a number of spare cars for them to insert just in case they need to do that?

 

[Nym]

Why can they not just run a 7 car set, as a 7 car set when they need to use one on the Metropolitan line?

Also, should they have ordered more 8 car sets for Metropolitan line?

I understand the 8 car sets are too long for some parts of the network, but otherwise they should be able to run 'as is' on any line on the network.

Could all 7 car sets be modified to all become 8 car or 7+1 car sets?

When they take a car out of an 8 car set to become an 8-1 set, they just take the car out. But when it is 7+1, will there be a number of spare cars for them to insert just in case they need to do that?

In short; no.
Its really not that easy or practical to have cars going in and out of units long term.

 

[Dstock7080]

A query regarding the additional coaches in the S7+1 sets (25382, 25384, 25386). Have the rest of the coaches for sets 21381+21382, 21383+21384 and 21385+21386 been delivered ?

Not yet, there has been a report from Derby seeing an S6 formed of one of those units.
Whether 'musical cars' will happen or the current S7+1 keep their cars for longer - then get renumbered to much higher digits is still unclear.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

They didn't need to order more S8s - the reason for the S7+1 excercise is to cover the S8s that are going back to Derby for heavy modifications.

As I understand it there will be one further S8 built after the full S7 order is completed; this will be for the Croxley capacity boost. I am not sure if this extra unit has been formally authorised and ordered yet though.