Croydon Tram Crash

[neonison]

From the aerial photos I have seen I would have guessed that it had been heading away from Sandilands, but I may be being misled by the angle at which it is lying. Of course, we can't assume that it had actually stopped at Sandilands if it had come from that direction and could have been travelling at quite a high speed if it had not stopped there.

The direction is still not clear but the number of passengers involved in the morning peak would suggest inbound from New Addington towards Croydon. Downhill from the tunnel and failing to negotiate the left-hand curve towards Sandilands.
However, it does seem this most basic piece of information is not yet confirmed.

 

[Class455]

I've just had a look at the aerial images and from what I can see, the tram looks to be 2531. My sincere condolences go out to those who died in this horrible tragedy.

 

[45669]

From the aerial photos I have seen I would have guessed that it had been heading away from Sandilands, but I may be being misled by the angle at which it is lying. Of course, we can't assume that it had actually stopped at Sandilands if it had come from that direction and could have been travelling at quite a high speed if it had not stopped there.

That's the impression that I got. It appears to be on the down line (if they call them that in tram parlance), but could it possibly have been on the up line and slid on its side across to the other line if the rails were wet and slippery?

The RAIB will enlighten us in due course.

Whatever the cause, it's a dreadful thing to have happened and a terrible experience for those involved.

 

[Antman]

You'd think what the readers share most or read most, might influence how much coverage the BBC devote to something.

However I guess the BBC had planned lots of resources into the Trump coverage and didn't wish to change that.

Whya would they have done had the Queen passed away? The wouldn't have been able to ignore that until after 12pm.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

But even on here, a rail forum, there have been more posting about Trump v Clinton than about this.

I live near Croydon and whilst people are shocked life still goes on including for the Tramlink drivers who to their utmost credit are still running a service between Croydon and Wimbledon.

Even without Trump v Clinton I doubt this would have got much more coverage than it has.
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From the aerial photos I have seen I would have guessed that it had been heading away from Sandilands, but I may be being misled by the angle at which it is lying. Of course, we can't assume that it had actually stopped at Sandilands if it had come from that direction and could have been travelling at quite a high speed if it had not stopped there.

I know it looks like that in the photo but I'd be pretty certain it was heading towards Sandilands.

 

[Sleeper]

From the aerial photos I have seen I would have guessed that it had been heading away from Sandilands, but I may be being misled by the angle at which it is lying. Of course, we can't assume that it had actually stopped at Sandilands if it had come from that direction and could have been travelling at quite a high speed if it had not stopped there.

Looking at the lie of the tram and the various traction standards in the attached photo (from ITV News I believe) the tram surely can only have been running on the track coming in from the right? In other words, this was a tram running from Lloyd Park towards Croydon.

For those who don't know the area, the route top left is to/from Elmers End and Beckenham Jct, route bottom left is to/from Sandilands and Croydon, route right is to/from Lloyd Park and New Addington.

The original heavy railway was straight through from top left (Elmers End) to right (Upper Warlingham & Oxted). The "new" tramway from Croydon joins the railway formation at a near-right-angle in a deep cutting, hence the sharp curves.

 

[AlterEgo]

I also think it was heading towards Sandilands. The incident was originally reported to have happened "in a tunnel", which a tram heading into Sandilands would have had to negotiate.

The loading of the tram also makes me strongly suspect it was heading that way, derailed, and crossed/slid over the other line before coming to rest. This section of line is also directly after a long straight which would explain the (apparent) speed.

 

[transmanche]

You'd think what the readers share most or read most, might influence how much coverage the BBC devote to something.

I've put my complaint in to BBC Newswatch re the lack of coverage.

You do realise that the BBC is more than just television?

The BBC has given lots of coverage to the incident. Just that it hasn't featured prominently on the BBC News Channel doesn't mean it has been ignored - as it's been featured prominently on the website and on regional radio. The BBC News Channel has obviously been focusing on the major global news story.

In addition to this, the tram crash didn't appear to be a major incident for quite some time. It was five hours after the crash before any official (BTP) sources hinted that there were fatalities. Until then, there was very little to report - certainly not enough to warrant interrupting the planned special programme on the BBC News Channel.

 

[urpert]

It has also been the lead story on Heart FM all morning. Can't comment on the BBC though.

It was the second item on World at One on Radio 4.

 

[GB]

But even on here, a rail forum, there have been more posting about Trump v Clinton than about this.

Perhaps more people visit other parts of the forum than they do here.

 

[jon0844]

You do realise that the BBC is more than just television?

The BBC has given lots of coverage to the incident. Just that it hasn't featured prominently on the BBC News Channel doesn't mean it has been ignored - as it's been featured prominently on the website and on regional radio. The BBC News Channel has obviously been focusing on the major global news story.

In addition to this, the tram crash didn't appear to be a major incident for quite some time. It was five hours after the crash before any official (BTP) sources hinted that there were fatalities. Until then, there was very little to report - certainly not enough to warrant interrupting the planned special programme on the BBC News Channel.

The same was said by a lot of people about that hotel in Exeter.. that the BBC wasn't reporting it and that there was some sort of blackout because it wasn't in London yada yada.

It was being reported by the BBC.

As you say, the BBC is more than just BBC News - where you can't have everything on at once, even on the ticker. If you want to be informed, you need to look beyond the 'front page'.

To say that people on here are talking more about other stuff than this is also insulting. Without knowing what happened, what was I supposed to say? But I have plenty to say about the US Elections or Brexit (not that I posted anything about either today) and I am sure many others do. It doesn't mean we all think either of those things are more important.

 

[All Line Rover]

...unfortunately some people automatically associate arrest with guilt.

While I certainly do not consider the BBC to be politically biased in its reporting, it has a problem with making statements from which unjustified inferences can easily be made, as also occurred in its coverage of the High Court "Brexit case", as discussed here: https://ukconstitutionallaw.org/2016/11/07/nick-barber-and-jeff-king-responding-to-miller/ (fourth paragraph).

 

[Chris M]

You do realise that the BBC is more than just television?

The BBC has given lots of coverage to the incident. Just that it hasn't featured prominently on the BBC News Channel doesn't mean it has been ignored - as it's been featured prominently on the website and on regional radio. The BBC News Channel has obviously been focusing on the major global news story.

In addition to this, the tram crash didn't appear to be a major incident for quite some time. It was five hours after the crash before any official (BTP) sources hinted that there were fatalities. Until then, there was very little to report - certainly not enough to warrant interrupting the planned special programme on the BBC News Channel.

The complaints on this thread have not been about the lack of interruption, but the lack of any mention in the news headlines or the news ticker, both of which are intended to allow mention of stories that are important but not the top news of the day. I don't have a TV so can't comment on what was or was not shown on it, but it is always best to actually read the comments people actually make rather than responding to the ones you think they made.

 

[Zoidberg]

Indeed and I suspect that and poor rail conditions are the reason although obviously best to speculate further.

I concur, the more speculation, the better!

But I and others will know what you meant.

 

[Clip]

Bloody hell can you stop with this pointless arguing over whether or not it was was not on the telly and whether it should be - this serves no use whatsoever and is a bit disrespectful to those who lost their lives, those still in hospital and their family and friends.

Sheesh this place is bad at times

 

[transmanche]

but it is always best to actually read the comments people actually make rather than responding to the ones you think they made.

Er... pot, kettle, etc...

 

[swt class 450]

I dont see why the driver was arrested when as far as i am aware there is no indication that it was his fault? It doesnt seem right to make arrests when so little information is known. Also was this the first tram of the day or were there trams earlier than this?

 

[Kite159]

RIP to those whose lifes were tragedy cut short this morning

 

[Nippy]

I dont see why the driver was arrested when as far as i am aware there is no indication that it was his fault? It doesnt seem right to make arrests when so little information is known. Also was this the first tram of the day or were there trams earlier than this?

Unless you are on site how on earth can you comment about why or why they weren't arrested?

 

[Phil.]

Picture from BBC helicopter (courtesy of Tom Edwards twitter). Sorry if there's anything in the picture that offends anyone!

Why should anyone be offended?

 

[Domh245]

Also was this the first tram of the day or were there trams earlier than this?

From a quick bit of googling, it would seem that the first tram over that section would have left Lloyd Park at about 0505.

 

[Deepgreen]

Looking at the lie of the tram and the various traction standards in the attached photo (from ITV News I believe) the tram surely can only have been running on the track coming in from the right? In other words, this was a tram running from Lloyd Park towards Croydon.

For those who don't know the area, the route top left is to/from Elmers End and Beckenham Jct, route bottom left is to/from Sandilands and Croydon, route right is to/from Lloyd Park and New Addington.

The original heavy railway was straight through from top left (Elmers End) to right (Upper Warlingham & Oxted). The "new" tramway from Croydon joins the railway formation at a near-right-angle in a deep cutting, hence the sharp curves.

From the photo you have attached, I think you're right, not least because the track immediately 'above' the tram in the photo has clearly been heavily slewed by the impact of the front of the tram approaching from the right. This damage had not been at all obvious in the shots I had seen.

 

[berneyarms]

You do realise that the BBC is more than just television?

The BBC has given lots of coverage to the incident. Just that it hasn't featured prominently on the BBC News Channel doesn't mean it has been ignored - as it's been featured prominently on the website and on regional radio. The BBC News Channel has obviously been focusing on the major global news story.

In addition to this, the tram crash didn't appear to be a major incident for quite some time. It was five hours after the crash before any official (BTP) sources hinted that there were fatalities. Until then, there was very little to report - certainly not enough to warrant interrupting the planned special programme on the BBC News Channel.

I was making the point above that there were two four-minute slots each hour when BBC World News went to an advertisement and weather break during the morning, and at those times the broadcast was only to a UK audience.

Surely in that short period mention could have been given to the tram crash?

I don't expect them to break the main coverage of the US election when sharing with BBC World News, but in those short periods when they were broadcasting only to the UK they certainly could and (in my opinion) should have covered the story.

 

[Robertj21a]

I was making the point above that there were two four-minute slots each hour when BBC World News went to an advertisement and weather break during the morning, and at those times the broadcast was only to a UK audience.

Surely in that short period mention could have been given to the tram crash?

I don't expect them to break the main coverage of the US election when sharing with BBC World News, but in those short periods when they were broadcasting only to the UK they certainly could and (in my opinion) should have covered the story.

There's been a tram crash. Some people have died. Can I suggest that you take any issues concerning the BBC off to a more suitable forum.

RIP to all concerned.

 

[TC60054]

RIP to those involved, thoughts are with their friends and families.

This is notable as being the first major light rail accident, and also the first fatal one, since we started opening second generation tramways in 1992.

 

[transmanche]

Also was this the first tram of the day or were there trams earlier than this?

First tram towards Croydon passes Sandilands at 05:09 (the first tram in the opposite direction passes Sandilands even earlier, at 04:36).

With the timings of calls to the emergency services at 06:11 (LFB) and 06:13 (LAS and BTP), it's possible that the affected tram was the 05:55 route 3 from New Addington to Croydon, which was scheduled to call at Sandilands at 06:09.

 

[Antman]

I dont see why the driver was arrested when as far as i am aware there is no indication that it was his fault? It doesnt seem right to make arrests when so little information is known. Also was this the first tram of the day or were there trams earlier than this?

The driver will probably be interviewed about the incident and then released pending further enquiries, that way he can't speak to anybody who might try to influence him to say or not say certain things.

There had been other trams before this one although I'm not sure why that is relevant?

 

[96tommy]

From BBC reporter Tom Edwards on Twitter...

Derailed tram was heading west to East Croydon

 

[RichardN]

The BBC were reporting that two people were still trapped at 14:26. I can't imagine the horror of being trapped for over 8 hours in there.

 

[mirodo]

Reports on reddit that some of the survivors have required limb amputation.

 

[fowler9]

Very tragic for all involved and my best wishes go to those affected. I do not however see the point in making it national news other than scaring the hell out of people in to not using public transport and putting them in cars instead, and then putting every car crash on the national headlines. You could have a separate news paper just to report them all.