Blackpool - Manchester Electrification

[stu99]

The northern services for May at Blackpool North are now on RTT, this gives an indication on what electric services there are. Hope this isn't too off topic for this thread.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/BPN/2018/05/21/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

 

[LOL The Irony]

A 319 Manchester - Blackpool express? Are they having a flipping laugh?

 

[LDECRexile]

The northern services for May at Blackpool North are now on RTT, this gives an indication on what electric services there are. Hope this isn't too off topic for this thread.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/BPN/2018/05/21/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

Thank you very much for this.

I've had a look through the departures. There appears to be three services slated for electrics, with another partially electrified:

The electrified departures (I haven't gone through every single one of them, so there may be some still diesel) are:

xx:39 (ish) to Manchester Airport via Wigan North Western, Class 319s
xx:03 (ish) to Liverpool Lime Street, Class 319s
13:02 and 15:00 to Euston, Class 390s

in addition there are some xx:21 or xx:32 just to Preston Class 319.

There must be associated arrivals, of course.

Can anyone establish when this pattern is set to start, according to RTT? The example kindly shown is for 21st May.

 

[PR1Berske]

Blackpool North to South is on RTT




http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y22374/2018/05/21/advanced

 

[AM9]

A 319 Manchester - Blackpool express? Are they having a flipping laugh?

Could you please explain that comment.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Could you please explain that comment.

I think he is suggesting that at high speed they are so rocky that you wouldn't be able to do a bottle flip, and would then be laughed at by your fellow travellers.

 

[Lanley]

Could you please explain that comment.

I think he is referring to the schedule information of these services. You’ll see in the service information that this particular serivce has been given the express passenger type whereas most people would probably describe it as an ordinary passenger.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y23622/2018/05/21/advanced

 

[stu99]

Can anyone establish when this pattern is set to start, according to RTT? The example kindly shown is for 21st May.

It starts on the May timetable change, but the electric services start Sunday 20th May according to Realtime trains.

 

[notlob.divad]

A 319 Manchester - Blackpool express? Are they having a flipping laugh?

Could you please explain that comment.

I think he is referring to the schedule information of these services. You’ll see in the service information that this particular serivce has been given the express passenger type whereas most people would probably describe it as an ordinary passenger.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y23622/2018/05/21/advanced

Liverpool to Preston by a 319 is already classed as 'Passenger Express' That has an almost identical calling pattern to this new Manchester one on the shared section of the route (North of Wigan)

My original thought on the meaning of the original comment was that the poster had maybe missed that this was a Via Wigan service rather than via Bolton, and was thinking the timetable planners where being overly optimistic.

 

[adrock1976]

Regarding the aforementioned train shown in the link to the RTT website, what has happened to Mauldeth Road as it is missing from the local station calls south of Manchester Piccadilly?

 

[AM9]

Liverpool to Preston by a 319 is already classed as 'Passenger Express' That has an almost identical calling pattern to this new Manchester one on the shared section of the route (North of Wigan)

My original thought on the meaning of the original comment was that the poster had maybe missed that this was a Via Wigan service rather than via Bolton, and was thinking the timetable planners where being overly optimistic.

It seemed to me from the post by 'LOL The Irony' that he/she felt that class 319s weren't able to run a service described as 'Blackpool express'. I was aware that the limited stop trains from Blackpool to Manchester went via the WCML between Preston and Wigan NW, so unless the line limit over that stretch is over 100mph, the 319s would not be an absolute constraint on the timekeeping of such services.
In any event, what have the equivalent diagrams in the current timetable been using, class 150/153/155/156? With 75mph top speeds and lacklustre acceleration over 25mph, none of those could be regarded as anywhere near as fast as the class 319s except when crawling between Salford Crescent and Victoria/Piccadilly (headways permitting)!

 

[td97]

Regarding the aforementioned train shown in the link to the RTT website, what has happened to Mauldeth Road as it is missing from the local station calls south of Manchester Piccadilly?

Your question will be better answered on this thread
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...plan-for-may-2018.147558/page-53#post-3404872

 

[edwin_m]

It seemed to me from the post by 'LOL The Irony' that he/she felt that class 319s weren't able to run a service described as 'Blackpool express'. I was aware that the limited stop trains from Blackpool to Manchester went via the WCML between Preston and Wigan NW, so unless the line limit over that stretch is over 100mph, the 319s would not be an absolute constraint on the timekeeping of such services.
In any event, what have the equivalent diagrams in the current timetable been using, class 150/153/155/156? With 75mph top speeds and lacklustre acceleration over 25mph, none of those could be regarded as anywhere near as fast as the class 319s except when crawling between Salford Crescent and Victoria/Piccadilly (headways permitting)!

A 331 would probably do a bit better because it will have better acceleration than a 319, so a quicker getaway not only from the stops but also from the very severe restriction at Parkside/Golborne. However the Northern Connect map shows the service via Wigan going to Barrow/Windermere not Blackpool, so I guess these will become 195s not 331s.

 

[Jamesrob637]

I notice Northern are advertising that the line through Bolton will be open on the weekends of 7/8 and 21/22 April. You'd think work was ahead of the game or something.

07 April is the United-City and Merseyside derbies so maybe need to leave all lines open?

 

[InOban]

Or they're giving the Orangemen the weekend off.

 

[daveo]

07 April is the United-City and Merseyside derbies so maybe need to leave all lines open?

Ssshhhh - Don't tell RMT!!!!!

 

[CdBrux]

Or they're giving the Orangemen the weekend off.

City could probably do with a few Orangemen in their defense!

 

[childwallblues]

I think he is suggesting that at high speed they are so rocky that you wouldn't be able to do a bottle flip, and would then be laughed at by your fellow travellers.

Your opinion I presume. As a regular traveller on 319s they are far better than anything previously operating between Liverpool and Manchester/Preston.

 

[ianhr]

As a regular traveller on 319s they are far better than anything previously operating between Liverpool and Manchester/Preston.

I agree, a pity that the Liverpool-MIA diagrams will be reverting to a DMU, presumably one of the dreadful underpowered 2 car156s which will be overcrowded and take for ever for passengers to fight their way on and off through the inadequate doors, a very retrograde step.

 

[edwin_m]

I agree, a pity that the Liverpool-MIA diagrams will be reverting to a DMU, presumably one of the dreadful underpowered 2 car156s which will be overcrowded and take for ever for passengers to fight their way on and off through the inadequate doors, a very retrograde step.

It's supposed to be a Northern Connect (via the CLC route) so ought to be a 195 - though maybe not straight away.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Your opinion I presume. As a regular traveller on 319s they are far better than anything previously operating between Liverpool and Manchester/Preston.

It was a joke. No opinion or fact about the 319s was contained within the post. Apologies.

 

[DJH1971]

I agree, a pity that the Liverpool-MIA diagrams will be reverting to a DMU, presumably one of the dreadful underpowered 2 car156s which will be overcrowded and take for ever for passengers to fight their way on and off through the inadequate doors, a very retrograde step.

Via the CLC line I understand

 

[KevinTurvey]

Sorry to perhaps drift off topic slightly but I thought this may be interesting. Do some of the new timings do the upgraded infrastructure and electric traction justice compared with previous years? As there are of course more station stops and frequent services, it's not exactly like for like, but here is a scan extract of the 1987 timetables for Blackpool Preston Wigan Liverpool Manchester.

To put into context 142's had recently been introduced on the new hourly Preston - Liverpool trains. (previously from 2-3 a day) Other services were class 104 and 108 DMU's, and some new class 150's shown by the S symbol. Parts of the routes still had semaphore signals and jointed track as well.

1hr 25 from Blackpool - Liverpool in a 142, and a 1hr 12 from Blackpool - Manchester - in a class 104!

Also, see how many new stations have since opened. Salford Crescent was just open, but seemingly not yet part of the link to Piccadilly.

 

[childwallblues]

It was a joke. No opinion or fact about the 319s was contained within the post. Apologies.

Noted

 

[childwallblues]

I agree, a pity that the Liverpool-MIA diagrams will be reverting to a DMU, presumably one of the dreadful underpowered 2 car156s which will be overcrowded and take for ever for passengers to fight their way on and off through the inadequate doors, a very retrograde step.

Couldn't agree more.I could go on but it is not for discussion on this thread.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Sorry to perhaps drift off topic slightly but I thought this may be interesting. Do some of the new timings do the upgraded infrastructure and electric traction justice compared with previous years? As there are of course more station stops and frequent services, it's not exactly like for like, but here is a scan extract of the 1987 timetables for Blackpool Preston Wigan Liverpool Manchester.

To put into context 142's had recently been introduced on the new hourly Preston - Liverpool trains. (previously from 2-3 a day) Other services were class 104 and 108 DMU's, and some new class 150's shown by the S symbol. Parts of the routes still had semaphore signals and jointed track as well.

1hr 25 from Blackpool - Liverpool in a 142, and a 1hr 12 from Blackpool - Manchester - in a class 104!

Also, see how many new stations have since opened. Salford Crescent was just open, but seemingly not yet part of the link to Piccadilly.

Very infrequent service on Ormskirk-Preston, too, is that a 2 hour morning peak gap? Was it only the Network Northwest period when it was more than a single unit going back and forth?

 

[snowball]

The new Enhancements Delivery Plan update appeared last night. Though the section on the NW programme says it was updated in March 2018, no obvious changes scream out. Manchester-Preston date "to be confirmed", Preston-Blackpool "CP5".

The project still entitled Manchester to Stalybridge, but actually cut back to Bromley Street, and including the extension lead, is still listed as 20 May 2018.

The Lostock to Wigan page has not been updated since March 2017.

I've posted in the Transpennine thread about what it says on that project.

Incidentally, for those who've been in the area recently, whilst I know some trunking for the extension lead is now visible, how much of its route can be seen?

 

[LDECRexile]

Wrinkley has kindly sent photos of progress and action at Lostock and Dean Clough.

He added this note to his "masts and bases" set:

"Things are still moving on at Lostock.

Masts are going up on the up line just before the station.

The pile that was poured on Sunday is complete and the pile that didn’t go in is now there, but not bored out.

There are three more big concrete bases completed between the station and Beaumont Road, one of which is still under wraps.

The big base at Dean Clough has been poured, the bolt arrangement looks heavier than those on the adjacent pile which it replaces.

The heron was being quite tame today.

The Orangemen are gathering at the substation site, the first wide load comes in between 5pm and 6pm tonight. The car park has to be cleared by 5pm and the access road through the estate has to be clear of all vehicles between 5pm and 6pm. I will send photos later tonight and the send more on Saturday and Sunday."

He followed this some time later with a set showing the arrival of the Mega Electrical Thingy (HV switching station) to go on the ziggurat, with this note:

"Three wide loads arrived at 5.30 pm and have parked up on the car park tonight.

A 250 ton crane will be on site at 7.00 am tomorrow and lifting will start about 9.00 am. There are two lifts of 18 tons and one lift of 13 tons.

I will get down there for the lifts."

I've added these fine photosets to Wrinkley's album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157654034635234

and to the Combined Volume here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157661069863633

Cracking stuff, thank you Wrinkley.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I know I always say amazing because I am a glass is half full person but big electrical kit arriving at Lostock really is amazing progress- wonderful

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

9896k - the guy nonchalantly leaning against the pile just needs a cigar and a stove pipe hat instead of a safety helmet, and he could be Isambard Kingdom Brunel posing with his handiwork (the Great Eastern).