ATW submit to ORR

[merlodlliw]

for info to show how unbiased I am


Subject: ABERYSWTYTH TO LONDON PROPOSAL SUBMITTED TO ORR


MEDIA RELEASE



4 September 2009



PROPOSAL FOR NEW DIRECT ABERYSTWYTH – LONDON SERVICE SUBMITTED TO THE OFFICE OF RAIL REGULATION



Arriva Trains Wales has today 4 September submitted its formal proposal for a new direct train service between Aberystwyth and London Marylebone to the Office of Rail Regulation (ORR).



Subject to approval by the ORR the new service will extend two daily direct trains to and from Aberystwyth to London, via Shrewsbury restoring a link to Britain’s capital withdrawn by British Rail in 1991.



Should the proposal be approved, the new service is expected to be introduced, following completion of new track and signalling work on the Cambrian Line.



The service will be operated using Arriva Trains Wales’ Class 158 fleet of trains, refurbishment specifications for which are currently being developed.



Since the announcement of Arriva’s plans for the new service there has been significant consultation to canvas local views and opinions, with the vast majority supporting the proposal.



Mike Bagshaw, Commercial Director for Arriva Trains Wales said: “Following the successful introduction of a new, more reliable Cambrian Line timetable last December, market research and our own knowledge of the local market has shown that there is a strong customer demand for a comfortable and reasonably priced direct service between mid Wales and London.



“We’ve received overwhelming support from stakeholders and passengers for this new service and we want to expand our network to serve new markets, creating new travel opportunities for rail passengers. The restoration of this link through Shropshire would bring significant benefits to the local economy.”





This view is shared by Lembit Opik, Member of Parliament for Montgomeryshire who said: “My only real concerns about a direct service from Mid-Wales to London were the reliability of the service, the quality of the rolling stock and whether their new service would harm the existing Wrexham to Marylebone service.



“However, following a number of meetings and discussions with Arriva trains, they have offered solutions to all three of these issues - by improving the carriages and timing their own trains not to directly compete with what's there already.



“Certainly, it seems an anomaly that, here in the 21st century, Ceredigion and Montgomeryshire lack a direct link with the British capital. Arriva are set to put that right, and that's got to be good for the region."





Ends

 

[GNERman]

class 158's for quite a long route, I wouldn't like to be on one of those for the whole journey...

 

[Jordy]

If this goes ahead, I hope they refurbish them before the service starts, the currently interiors are dire hock:

 

[merlodlliw]

class 158's for quite a long route, I wouldn't like to be on one of those for the whole journey...

A bit more about it from their website, I remain unbiased as usual
www.arrivatrainswales.co.uk/Aberystwyth_London.aspx

Mike Bagshaw, Commercial Director for Arriva Trains Wales said: there is strong demand for a comfortable and reasonably priced direct service between mid Wales and London.

All due respect Mike you are not talking about Gerald the 1st Premier class WAG Express, but 158 DMUs,comfortable for a 200 mile run,they are not the 158s I have to use. smacked hands, I must remain unbiased.

 

[fgwrich]

Mike Bagshaw, Commercial Director for Arriva Trains Wales said: there is strong demand for a comfortable and reasonably priced direct service between mid Wales and London.

Funny how comfortable and reasonably priced direct service dont really fit into the same sentance when it comes from Arriva...

As for 158's all the way from Aberystwyth to London Marylebone - Ok so they might have once been used on the London Waterloo to Camarthern services once before...but there interiors really are dire! and to be honest, quite a shambles...

To be honest, if i lived in mid wales, id proberley rather take ATW to Shrewsbury and WSMR to London or just drive to Shrewsbury then WSMR...

As for reasonably priced direct service...Ill let you to decide on that one...

 

[matt]

How will the pick ups work in the West Midlands regarding Virgin such as Birmingham New Street etc?

 

[route:oxford]

How will the pick ups work in the West Midlands regarding Virgin such as Birmingham New Street etc?

Would be good to know...

I could imagine Arriva Cross Country offering an "economy" ticket to London from Manchester or the North West via the Arriva Trains Wales link to Marylebone - if there was a suitable interchange point.

 

[krus_aragon]

As for 158's all the way from Aberystwyth to London Marylebone - Ok so they might have once been used on the London Waterloo to Camarthern services once before...but there interiors really are dire! and to be honest, quite a shambles...

I got on a 158 for a short hop from Newport to Cardiff, and was absolutely stunned by the quality of the interiors. It was a FGW unit, and I was expecting the basic interiors that Arriva's have. On the strength of this, I think a 158 direct service, while not luxurious intercity, could be nice. Until they rota an unrefurbished unit for the run to London, of course...

I'm actually happy to sit on an Arriva 158 for a few hours at a time. My main complaint is the diesel engine under the seat, but I won't escape that with the 150s, 175s and 221s around here either.

To be honest, if i lived in mid wales, id proberley rather take ATW to Shrewsbury and WSMR to London or just drive to Shrewsbury then WSMR...

There's also the option of sitting on the 158 to Birmingham and hopping on a Virgin service there, if WSMR's services don't happen to match when you want to travel.

 

[Geezertronic]

So would they run a similar route through the Midlands to WSMR?

 

[ChrisMcFall]

How will the pick ups work in the West Midlands regarding Virgin such as Birmingham New Street etc?

I've heard something along the lines of the service being advertised as a normal aber>bhi service until it gets to bhi, the two units then split, one goes to london, one forms the return service..

Or something like that..i really cant remember.

 

[Mojo]

I've heard something along the lines of the service being advertised as a normal aber>bhi service until it gets to bhi, the two units then split, one goes to london, one forms the return service..

Or something like that..i really cant remember.

In which case would it need to be 6 cars into Birmingham as it's currently 4 car as it splits at Machynlleth with one half going to AYW and the other half to PWL.

 

[matt]

I've heard something along the lines of the service being advertised as a normal aber>bhi service until it gets to bhi, the two units then split, one goes to london, one forms the return service..

Or something like that..i really cant remember.

I was thinking more on the lines of whether Birmingham International would be a pick-up point go to London as Wrexham and Shropshire were not allowed to stop there.

 

[tbtc]

if i lived in mid wales, id proberley rather take ATW to Shrewsbury and WSMR to London or just drive to Shrewsbury then WSMR...

...of course, by then the WMSR service may also be a DMU, if the rumours are true, which brings a different slant to things

This ATW service seems a relatively risk free enhancement (since the trains are already running to Birmingham International anyway) - nice to see an enhancement in Wales that suits passengers (and not just MPs)

 

[Lampshade]

That is quite a distance for a 158, they're semi-fast local, not intercity units.

Also what is with the sudden interest on restoring direct links to London? It's almost as if we've taken a step back 100 years and every company wants to go to London.

 

[Dai.]

That is quite a distance for a 158, they're semi-fast local, not intercity units.

Also what is with the sudden interest on restoring direct links to London? It's almost as if we've taken a step back 100 years and every company wants to go to London.

I'm with you on the 158' not being intercity units, it's a bit much for them to go 3 hours or so.

Also, I think it' may be the Olympics.

 

[emoaconr]

158 interiors, particulary of the W&B design era, are particulary depressing.
Whenever doing the CDF-WRX journey, my stomach turns over as a 2-car 158 pulls into platform 2 where a larger than suitable amount of people stand waiting. Threadbare carpets, dull 80's colour schemes and poor lighting, not to mention the lack of air conditioning, makes these units not very pleasurable sometimes. They always seem cramped, and when full, it feels as if I am being suffocated slowly by a grubby towel being shoved down my throat.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind them on a lovely sunny day when its quite quiet and airy in the cabin. But when its grey and the inside is stuffy and uncomfortable, I'd rather be somewhere else! No, the actual ride quality isn't any different to a 175. But yes, its a far less enjoyable journey.

 

[A0wen]

I'm with you on the 158' not being intercity units, it's a bit much for them to go 3 hours or so.

Also, I think it' may be the Olympics.

They're surely not that much different to the 159s which SWT are using from London - Exeter ? Isn't that about 3 hours as well ?

Interesting to see Marylebone is becoming favoured again - quite a turnaround after the attempts to close it 25 years ago.

 

[D841]

I'm with you on the 158' not being intercity units, it's a bit much for them to go 3 hours or so.

Plenty of 158 runs over 3 hours already - Norwich - Liverpool for a start, and several in Scotland. Personally, I quite like the 158's. They would be even better if the aircon could be fixed.

 

[jamesontheroad]

class 158's for quite a long route, I wouldn't like to be on one of those for the whole journey...

In addition to the already mentioned Liverpool - Norwich (5h 30m), Inverness - Wick is 4h 20m... the Sprinters were designed for thinly used Intercity routes, so the distance isn't a problem. However the state that ATW have allowed theirs to fall is. FGW, SWT and now EMT have all demonstrated the potential for these trains if refurbished well. Perhaps ATW mean to extract some WAG or EU development money to invest in the fleet as part of this proposal.

Out of interest, what was used to operate this train before BR pulled it? I'd imagine loco-hauled mk. 2s? Or did it briefly get Sprinterised...?

 

[The Planner]

So would they run a similar route through the Midlands to WSMR?

ATW have rights to run to Birmingham International, and can do it through New St with a stop. They wont have to use the Grands. Id imagine that although it would be a through service, it wont advertise Marylebone at Wolves, New St or International, it will probably be Bicester North. To put a spanner in that, there was talk of them dropping International and going via Tyseley, splitting and joining at New St as it saves the nightmare of getting a path through Cov and down the branch.

 

[tbtc]

That is quite a distance for a 158, they're semi-fast local, not intercity units

What traction is suitable for a non-intercity journey like this though? (stopping everywhere on the Cambrian coast isn't very intercity - plus you need units with corridor connections for the "split" for Pwllheli - bearing in mind these constraints the 158s are the best there is currently)

Would a 168 be any better?

 

[Greenback]

The 158's are the only suitable DMU stock in the ATW fleet - provided that they are refurbished as ATW promise, there shouldn't be any problem running Aberystwyth - Marylebone. There's no mention of a service from Pwllheli, but so much the better if a unit attaches/detaches at Machynlleth, perhaps on Saturdays or holiday periods only.

 

[NJTom]

In the pre-arriva days, they used to run a 153 from Holyhead, to Pemroke Dock, via crewe and cardiff and took about 5 hours. Since I lived in HH and had to work out of pembroke dock some weeks I had to use it several times and it was hell.

By comparison a 158 Aber to Marl would be luxury.

 

[starrymarkb]

They're surely not that much different to the 159s which SWT are using from London - Exeter ? Isn't that about 3 hours as well ?

Interesting to see Marylebone is becoming favoured again - quite a turnaround after the attempts to close it 25 years ago.

About 3.5hours to Exeter - add an hour on for the Paignton/Plymouth extensions and 3 hours for the Weekley Penzance trip...

 

[krus_aragon]

In the pre-arriva days, they used to run a 153 from Holyhead, to Pemroke Dock, via crewe and cardiff and took about 5 hours. Since I lived in HH and had to work out of pembroke dock some weeks I had to use it several times and it was hell.

I didn't know there were any direct North-South services before Arriva's time. Do you have any more details?

 

[tbtc]

I didn't know there were any direct North-South services before Arriva's time. Do you have any more details?

There used to be a handful - there was one token train a day from Holyhead to Cardiff (in the way that there used to be a token Penzance service from Cardiff), back in the days when some Cardiff - Crewe services still ran to Liverpool etc too...

...plus there were the Alphaline services to London Waterloo via Bristol, some of which ran via the "avoiding" line at Newport IIRC - now partly replaced by the SWT extension to Bristol

 

[Proud Salopian]

Frankly I don't see the point of direct Aberystwyth - London trains, especially with the excellent WSMR in operation (what's wrong with changing at Shrewsbury?) and especially especially if they're going to have 158s doing the run!!

I mean, for someone who lives in Shrewsbury, what option do I chose?

WSMR, class 67 hauled, refurbished mark 2/3 coaches, buffet car, first class section (not that I travel first class myself)

v.

ATW, class 158 DMU

It's a no brainer, especially if the journey time from Shrewsbury to London is the same.

 

[tbtc]

(what's wrong with changing at Shrewsbury?)

What would your reaction have been if you'd been told (a year oor two ago) WMSR was a bad idea because "what's wrong with changing at New Street"?

I mean, for someone who lives in Shrewsbury, what option do I chose?

WSMR, class 67 hauled, refurbished mark 2/3 coaches, buffet car, first class section (not that I travel first class myself)

v.

ATW, class 158 DMU

It's a no brainer, especially if the journey time from Shrewsbury to London is the same.

Chiltern 168 vs ATW 158?

 

[Proud Salopian]

Changing at Shrewsbury or changing at Birmingham New Street - quite a difference there mate. What's more, the combined populations of Wrexham, Oswestry, Shrewsbury, Wellington and Telford is somewhat higher than Aberystwyth and Welshpool. There is definitely a need for a Shrewsbury-London service, via Telford, but I don't see the need for a Aber-London direct service. The 14 people and 2 dogs travelling Aber-London direct per day can change at Shrewsbury.

As for this 168 lark - I can't see it happening for a while. Surely WSMR wouldn't go through the trouble of acquiring the 67s and refurbishing the stock and then just go for 168s in the end. And are the 168s not required by Chiltern down in the home counties anyway?

In any case, I would chose WSMR over ATW any day.

 

[The Planner]

. And are the 168s not required by Chiltern down in the home counties anyway?

They still need some 67 sets for the Snow Hill/Banbury loco services they have got planned which will displace a few 168s.