Donald Trump and the aftermath of his presidency

[najaB]

No, I do genuinely think this is a bigger step than previous agreements.

I would like to believe you are correct, but DPRK and Kim are in every measurable way stronger and better off than they were in the 1990s and we didn't see any change then.

 

[TheEdge]

I would like to believe you are correct, but DPRK and Kim are in every measurable way stronger and better off than they were in the 1990s and we didn't see any change then.

Apart from China.

I still suspect that the visit to Beijing a few months ago was much less a visit and much more a summoning by Xi Jinping. I would not be shocked to find that China has reached the end of their tether with permanently being called for supporting DPRK internationally as their behaviour has become more and more erratic. I don't think its unrelated that after that state visit they've changed.

 

[The_Train]

Apart from China.

I still suspect that the visit to Beijing a few months ago was much less a visit and much more a summoning by Xi Jinping. I would not be shocked to find that China has reached the end of their tether with permanently being called for supporting DPRK internationally as their behaviour has become more and more erratic. I don't think its unrelated that after that state visit they've changed.

The China aspect is not something I'd considered throughout all of this. Maybe there was more to this meeting than just 2 crackpots wanting to try and outwit one another. Certainly, China's influence could be a reason behind the reported determination from Kim to keep this meeting as planned when Trump threw his little tantrum not so long back

 

[najaB]

I would not be shocked to find that China has reached the end of their tether with permanently being called for supporting DPRK internationally as their behaviour has become more and more erratic.

There is that. It's not beyond the whit of the Chinese to use North Korea to keep Trump in check.

 

[AlterEgo]

There is that. It's not beyond the whit of the Chinese to use North Korea to keep Trump in check.

Funny isn’t it, how Trump is talking about withdrawing troops from Southeast Asia when China is militarising it...

 

[najaB]

The USA has also retreated in large part economically from Asia - witness Trump's withdrawal from the TPP.

 

[Cowley]

Apart from China.

I still suspect that the visit to Beijing a few months ago was much less a visit and much more a summoning by Xi Jinping. I would not be shocked to find that China has reached the end of their tether with permanently being called for supporting DPRK internationally as their behaviour has become more and more erratic. I don't think its unrelated that after that state visit they've changed.

Absolutely. China are the major (quiet) players behind all this.
Things are very different in that part of the world now compared to twenty years ago.
Xi Jinping has manoeuvred himself into a stronger and stronger position right under everyone’s noses for many years and will continue to do so unchallenged.

 

[Bromley boy]

Has he really achieved much though? There have been similar agreements in the past that North Korea then just ignored. And with this one, they have managed to get the USA (well Trump anyway) to agree to what is essentially a reduction in USA military co-operation with South Korea - I wonder how South Korea and other nations in the area feel about that!

For all his triumphalism, Trump has achieved nothing at all substantive. He’s merely acted as a useful idiot for one of the more odious players on the world stage.

Kim, who had nothing to lose anyway, has been granted an audience with the POTUS which legitimises his regime and is a major publicity coup. POTUS has granted a major concession - withdrawal from military exercises - with nothing substantive offered in return: Kim has merely agreed to “work towards” denucularisation which doesn’t really mean anything.

We still have no clarity on NK’s nuclear capabilities, no agreement for independent inspections etc.

Trump also appeared to grovel at his feet, describing him as “very talented” etc. no word on NK’s human rights abuses etc. (so, in effect legitimising them). Trump used harsher words to describe his Canadian G7 allies a few days ago.

Diplomacy at its absolute worst (but perhaps that’s unsurprising given the players involved?!)

 

[GusB]

Trump also appeared to grovel at his feet, describing him as “very talented” etc. no word on NK’s human rights abuses etc. (so, in effect legitimising them). Trump used harsher words to describe his Canadian G7 allies a few days ago.

Maybe Trump recognises what it's like to be divorced from reality, thus there is some common ground. I honestly hope this works out well.

 

[Bromley boy]

Maybe Trump recognises what it's like to be divorced from reality, thus there is some common ground. I honestly hope this works out well.

As a wannabe strong man dictator himself, I’m sure Trump envies the absolute power Kim has over NK and wishes he had similar.

“Working out well” would be a follow up summit for the two esteemed leaders in the US where one of Trump’s beloved NRA member goes rogue and puts a bullet in them both.

 

[GusB]

“Working out well” would be a follow up summit for the two esteemed leaders in the US where one of Trump’s beloved NRA member goes rogue and puts a bullet in them both.

I thought you were such a big fan of Mr Kim

 

[Bromley boy]

I thought you were such a big fan of Mr Kim

I used to think he was just a fat, poisonous dwarf. But now I see that he’s a fat, poisonous dwarf with shrewd diplomatic skills whose evidently capable of out-manoeuvring POTUS.

Maybe we should hire him to negotiate our exit from the EU?! He couldn’t do a worse job than the current crowd.

 

[GusB]

I used to think he was just a fat, poisonous dwarf. But now I see that he’s a fat, poisonous dwarf with shrewd diplomatic skills and evidently capable of out-manoeuvring POTUS.

Sounds rather like our wee Ruth Davidson

 

[Bromley boy]

Sounds rather like our wee Ruth Davidson

I’d wee on Ruth Davidson, too.

Poisonous dwarf = Salmond/Sturgeon, surely (why are they all named after fish?!) .

 

[GusB]

I'm fairly sure there was one other prominent SNP politician that had a fishy name, but it escapes me to be honest (the one that got away?!)

 

[Bromley boy]

I'm fairly sure there was one other prominent SNP politician that had a fishy name, but it escapes me to be honest (the one that got away?!)

Perhaps Gordon Brown Trout “slipped through the net”?

(not SNP, but a dour Scott).

 

[AlterEgo]

I used to think he was just a fat, poisonous dwarf. But now I see that he’s a fat, poisonous dwarf with shrewd diplomatic skills whose evidently capable of out-manoeuvring POTUS.

Maybe we should hire him to negotiate our exit from the EU?! He couldn’t do a worse job than the current crowd.

It doesn’t take much to outsmart the Donald.

 

[GusB]

Perhaps Gordon Brown Trout “slipped through the net”?

(not SNP, but a dour Scott).

Has anyone advised you that it wouldn't be wise to quit your day-job?

 

[Bromley boy]

It doesn’t take much to outsmart the Donald.

Very true.

Has anyone advised you that it wouldn't be wise to quit your day-job?

Many times. My career as a comedian has definitely hit the buffers.

I used to think there was light at the end of the tunnel, for my comedy, but it’s probably just a bloke waving a torch.

 

[GusB]

I used to think there was light at the end of the tunnel, for my comedy, but it’s probably just a bloke waving a torch.

Were the RMT consulted on such torch-waving?

EDIT: I'm heading for the nuclear bunker now

 

[Bromley boy]

Were the RMT consulted on such torch-waving?

EDIT: I'm heading for the nuclear bunker now

No idea. As an ASLEF member they’re dead to me. I don’t care either way, so long as I get a healthy pay rise . RMT do a good line in amusing industrial disputes, or so I’m told. (All of the above is strictly tongue in cheek).

Likewise - God only knows why I’m still up at this hour - that’s shift work for you!

 

[GusB]

Likewise - God only knows why I’m still up at this hour - that’s shift work for you!

You're a freak like the rest of us - that's why you're up at this hour. :P

Seriously, though, night shift does bugger things up quite a bit. In my part of the world, there isn't really much night to speak of at this time of year. The killer is when you suddenly have to go back to earlies...

 

[Bromley boy]

You're a freak like the rest of us - that's why you're up at this hour. :P

Seriously, though, night shift does bugger things up quite a bit. In my part of the world, there isn't really much night to speak of at this time of year. The killer is when you suddenly have to go back to earlies...

Aha - you’re a brother - a fellow journeyman on the iron road.

Shift work is a strange beast. I can imagine it’s far worse up there, with the daylight patterns.

It could always be worse! My step-grandparents are currently on a cruise around the nordics. Perpetual daylight, a couple of hours of twilight this time of year. Perpetual night with twilight mixed in in December.

Imagine that combined with shiftwork! A proper headf*ck.

 

[nlogax]

I used to think there was light at the end of the tunnel, for my comedy, but it’s probably just a bloke waving a torch.

Nah, it's definitely a pair of 66s hauling a Freightliner service

 

[Groningen]

Donald Trump loves dictators; hates friends.

 

[greyman42]

Maybe Trump recognises what it's like to be divorced from reality, thus there is some common ground. I honestly hope this works out well.

Yes, whatever people think of the parties involved it would be good for the World if this works out well. What annoys me is that some people seem to be hoping that Trump fails.

 

[Bromley boy]

Yes, whatever people think of the parties involved it would be good for the World if this works out well. What annoys me is that some people seem to be hoping that Trump fails.

Trouble is I think he already has failed in the sense that the ambiguous “commitment” received from Kim doesn’t necessarily mean what Trump thinks it does. It’s a statement of aspiration rather than a concrete undertaking - the results of which cannot even be monitored anyway.

By abandoning joint military exercises Trump has also made a major concession. A concession which has alienated his own military commanders and his close allies in the region) and has nothing to show for it.

Whichever way you look at it, that smacks of bad diplomacy.

 

[najaB]

What annoys me is that some people seem to be hoping that Trump fails.

I don't think many people want him to fail since that would be bad for all of us.

 

[Groningen]

Those blankets for the children in Texas are mostly given to keep warm; not to sleep beneath it.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Surprised this thread has drifted down so far, what with the Dong-ald being over here for a few days and all the protests and stuff...

I don't mind him visiting, like it or not he's a foreign head-of-state... I just hope he remembers to take Piers Morgan back with him when he leaves!