Class 710 LO

[swt_passenger]

What did people realistically expect from LO takeover? 378-style seats has probably been the most likely despite initial suggestions to the contrary if just to give the rolling stock a standard layout. There's supposedly a lot of equipment hidden under the longitudinal seats that on earlier trains is in cupboards near the internal gangways.

Are people complaining about the use of 378s to Watford Junction?

 

[The_Engineer]

It doesn't sit well with me that there is more standing room than seats on a lot of the new rolling stock.

This suits the nature of urban rapid transit very well. It allows maximum peak loadings with off peak allowing most - if not all - people to be seated.

 

[Fisherman80]

There really should be a compromise......you may be happy standing but I can bet if you were elderly/disabled/heavily pregnant you wouldn't appreciate having to stand.

 

[Hophead]

There really should be a compromise......you may be happy standing but I can bet if you were elderly/disabled/heavily pregnant you wouldn't appreciate having to stand.

They shouldn't have to - and people are generally quite prepared to offer a seat.

 

[slick]

There really should be a compromise......you may be happy standing but I can bet if you were elderly/disabled/heavily pregnant you wouldn't appreciate having to stand.

Thats what the priority seats are for by each door. They are a different
Colour also so easily identified.

 

[Fisherman80]

And you think that will stop able bodied people using them just because they are colour coded?

We could go on for hours about this issue but my main point is that in my opinion this train seems to have taken standing room to a whole new level.

 

[jopsuk]

it's not "a whole new level". It's the same level as the rest of the Overground, most of the Underground and most similar Metro lines worldwide

 

[slick]

And you think that will stop able bodied people using them just because they are colour coded?

We could go on for hours about this issue but my main point is that in my opinion this train seems to have taken standing room to a whole new level.

I didnt say that did I but its a welcome addition yes. People on the whole are happy to stand when they see somebody who needs a seat now on 40 year old rolling stock. The fact now they wont have to try and board with a tiny grab handle and navigate around a huge glass partition to get to a seat is a plus.

Longtitudinal seating makes sense for futurproofing. I dont like it personally but it makes sense based on the growth usage of the lines served. We wont be able to extend platforms for many many years to come. You also fail to consider we will be serving a 60,000 stadium soon with the same amount of units and paths as now. Not to mention passenger numbers on my lines arent what they used to be. These days its quite different and the majority of trains are well used with people standing up until about 10pm, Seven Sisters especially down road especially.....and the GOB line is mostly a glorified sardine can from the first stop..in 10 years wont need to have the conversation of "how do we increase capacity"

 

[Mikey C]

Longtitudinal seating makes sense for futurproofing. I dont like it personally but it makes sense based on the growth usage of the lines served. We wont be able to extend platforms for many many years to come. You also fail to consider we will be serving a 60,000 stadium soon with the same amount of units and paths as now. Not to mention passenger numbers on my lines arent what they used to be. Under NX and GA you would have the peak and that was it after that was low to moderate usage...These days its quite different and the majority of my trains are well used with people standing up until about 10pm, Seven Sisters especially down road especially.....and the GOB line is mostly a glorified sardine can from the first stop..in 10 years wont need to have the conversation of "how do we increase capacity"

I'm not convinced the Liverpool Street lines are that busy all day, whenever I've been on them during the day I've always been able to pick my seat.

To me it's more for London Overground "operational convenience", after all the nearby Moorgate Class 717 trains, which are even more restricted in length (6 car only) don't have longitudinal seating

 

[332 > 444]

The GOBLIN line does have a lot of end to end users, I mainly use it to get to Hornsey/FPK which is 15 - 17 mins, it's continued growth makes it a victim of its own success. I reckon them units could've had a 345 solution or 2 outer carriages longitudinal and 2 inner carriages transverse. 700 passengers are a lot considering the 717s will have 962 (or is it 943). Well as a user of the 710, I'm awaiting actually being being able to get on peak services without having to hold my breath in!

 

[Wivenswold]

Thank you "slick", bang on. It gets to the point where I feel like screaming on here.

I think we'd all love luxury trains with wide cushioned seats facing the engine and a whole window to ourselves. The truth is, there's too many of us, too little infrastructure and virtually no money (apart from when it suits Westminster of course). If people want to moan that trains are little more than people carriers then they are failing to grasp the nature of the world we live in and, more importantly, the world us Brits have created for ourselves. If rail funding had provoked a similar amount of fury and debate than Brexit, perhaps there would be enough seats to go round for all of us now.

Oh, I'm disabled by the way. Never a problem getting someone to move for a seat. People are actually very nice generally, just smile and it the world works better for you.

 

[332 > 444]

I'm not convinced the Liverpool Street lines are that busy all day, whenever I've been on them during the day I've always been able to pick my seat.

To me it's more for London Overground "operational convenience", after all the nearby Moorgate Class 717 trains, which are even more restricted in length (6 car only) don't have longitudinal seating

And I've seen these routes first hand getting packed to the rafters, I have to actually leave people behind especially on an all stations service, hopefully these are a solution.

 

[SteveOfTheStow]

I'm not convinced the Liverpool Street lines are that busy all day, whenever I've been on them during the day I've always been able to pick my seat.

To me it's more for London Overground "operational convenience", after all the nearby Moorgate Class 717 trains, which are even more restricted in length (6 car only) don't have longitudinal seating

I think the 717s are in a slightly different bracket for two reasons:

1) They're a follow on from the 700s, which had 2+2 to begin with as they're medium distance trains. Keeping 2+2 might have been the cheapest way to follow on, whereas the 710 have been designed to be longitudinal from the start.
2) The 717s will go further than the 710s on an end-to-end journey - Liverpool St to Theobalds Grove is 35 minutes versus Moorgate to Watton-at-Stone at 1 hour - nearly double.

 

[slick]

I'm not convinced the Liverpool Street lines are that busy all day, whenever I've been on them during the day I've always been able to pick my seat.

To me it's more for London Overground "operational convenience", after all the nearby Moorgate Class 717 trains, which are even more restricted in length (6 car only) don't have longitudinal seating

No disrespect but i beg to differ. Of course there are some trains during the day that arent as busy. Also depending on which direction are you travelling. My point was overall usage is up by hell of a lot over the past few years and is still increasing. We regularly have those independent passenger counter people out on the platforms so I assume Arriva know its a developing issue.

And I've seen these routes first hand getting packed to the rafters, I have to actually leave people behind especially on an all stations service, hopefully these are a solution.

I know the feeling! The "please move down inside the coach to make room" announcment is in use alot more these days!

The morning peak and evening peak services split into 4 cars far too early.

 

[jopsuk]

Opinion: the AC_only West Anglia units should be fixed formation 8-car, rather than coupled 4-car.

 

[D365]

Opinion: the AC_only West Anglia units should be fixed formation 8-car, rather than coupled 4-car.

Perhaps it's a risk that the ROSCO (whose identity I can't seem to find in the public domain) is not willing to take.

 

[greatkingrat]

The trains are being leased from London Rail Leasing Limited, which is a 50:50 joint venture between Sumitomo Mitsui Banking Corporation and Lombard.
http://content.tfl.gov.uk/pic-20171013-agenda-item11.pdf

The disadvantage of fixed 8-cars is that if you have a problem with one coach, the whole train is out of service, while with 2x4-cars you potentially have the option to run it short formed which is better than nothing.

 

[87015]

Opinion: the AC_only West Anglia units should be fixed formation 8-car, rather than coupled 4-car.

What would that leave for Upminster?

 

[Mikey C]

The trains are being leased from London Rail Leasing Limited, which is a 50:50 joint venture between Sumitomo Mitsui Banking Corporation and Lombard.
http://content.tfl.gov.uk/pic-20171013-agenda-item11.pdf

The disadvantage of fixed 8-cars is that if you have a problem with one coach, the whole train is out of service, while with 2x4-cars you potentially have the option to run it short formed which is better than nothing.

Well TfL had no problem running Crossrail with fixed formation long trains...

 

[D365]

What would that leave for Upminster?

They will be seeing ragtag Class 315s anyway.

Well TfL had no problem running Crossrail with fixed formation long trains...

Fixed formation vs multiple unit working has to be considered on a case by case basis.

 

[Fisherman80]

I didnt say that did I but its a welcome addition yes. Having driven trains on west anglia for the past 9 years your point of what about the disabled and pregnant is a non point. People on the whole are happy to stand when they see somebody who needs a seat now on our 40 year old rolling stock. The fact now they wont have to try and board with a tiny grab handle and navigate around a huge glass partition to get to a seat is a plus.

Longtitudinal seating makes sense for futurproofing. I dont like it personally but it makes sense based on the growth usage of the lines served. We wont be able to extend platforms for many many years to come. You also fail to consider we will be serving a 60,000 stadium soon with the same amount of units and paths as now. Not to mention passenger numbers on my lines arent what they used to be. Under NX and GA you would have the peak and that was it after that was low to moderate usage...These days its quite different and the majority of my trains are well used with people standing up until about 10pm, Seven Sisters especially down road especially.....and the GOB line is mostly a glorified sardine can from the first stop..in 10 years wont need to have the conversation of "how do we increase capacity"

Well I don't know that area at all but I will take your word for most points you have said as you are a driver. Everyone has opinions but my main point of this whole thread is the interior and judging by the pictures/videos I do not like them.

That said, West Yorkshire PTE are looking at doing platform extentions on the Airedale/Wharfedale lines...........wonder how many people you would fit on a 333 if they had longitudinal seating.......saves on the platform extentions!

 

[slick]

Well I don't know that area at all but I will take your word for most points you have said as you are a driver. Everyone has opinions but my main point of this whole thread is the interior and judging by the pictures/videos I do not like them.

That said, West Yorkshire PTE are looking at doing platform extentions on the Airedale/Wharfedale lines...........wonder how many people you would fit on a 333 if they had longitudinal seating.......saves on the platform extentions!

Well we agree on one thing...personally I hate longitudinal seating to look at and travel on.... even though from my job perspective tells me otherwise. And I know my line especially passengers are not going to be happy. I remember when 315s recieved automatic annoucements. There were so many complaints they had to reduce the volume and edit down dialogue to say less... morning punters were not impressed.....

 

[Railperf]

Looks like some Class 710 testing can commence - although not along the entire length of GOBLIN ....

GOSPEL OAK TO BARKING FROM 0001 HOURS ON SATURDAY 30 JUNE 2018
The Gospel Oak to Barking Electrification project is substantively complete.
The route infrastructure is available for electric multiple units to run across the route between Gospel Oak and Barking permitting train testing, driver training and route knowledge learning between the following ELR locations:
• Gospel Oak Jn (0m 0ch) – South Tottenham West Jn (5m 65ch) • South Tottenham East Jn (5m 73ch) – Woodgrange Park Jn (11m 79ch) • Barking Station Jn (13m 12ch) – Barking Platform 1 Buffers (13m 62ch) • Woodgrange Park Jn (11m 79ch) – Barking Station Jn (3 12m 12ch).
The OLE on the Tottenham Curve lines and Seven Sisters Chord will also be made available for trains testing, driver training and route knowledge learning and specified electrified services.
The Harringay Curve, namely Harringay Jn (0m 3ch) – Harringay Park Jn (0m 25ch), is to remain blocked to electric trains until the remaining physical works are complete.
The crossover at the South Tottenham station end of South Tottenham Viaduct (76AB points) (6m 5ch - 6m 8ch) is to remain blocked to electric trains until the remaining physical works, are complete.
NR 28.06.18

 

[Defiance149]

Anyone know the ID of the 710 delivered to Old Dalby last Thursday please?

 

[AM9]

The disadvantage of fixed 8-cars is that if you have a problem with one coach, the whole train is out of service, while with 2x4-cars you potentially have the option to run it short formed which is better than nothing.

That isn't necessarily true. The class700/0 8-car trains are effectively 2x4-car units electrically. The whooe train can be operated from either of the two pantographs under reduced power and the faulty half can be shut right down if necessary. With 2x4-car there is the problem of distribution of passengers as the cabs are not gangwayed.

 

[plcd1]

On a related note the Barking - Gospel Oak service has now lost one of its class 172s. It has been taken by the leasing company in preparation for service with West Midlands Trains. This means all of the peak time extras including the Woodgrange Park - Willesden Junction AM peak working were withdrawn as from 2 July 2018. As things stand the 172s will go by November with no real clarity as to when a class 710 will actually be able to turn a wheel on the NR network under its own power never mind be actually delivered to London and put into passenger service.

We are now getting to the point where every possible risk on the risk registers for GOBLIN electrification and new rolling stock will have materialised. Someone, somewhere is going to have to get their fingers out or else the GOBLIN will turn into TfL's "Thameslink-esque" fiasco alongside whatever compromised "opening" materialises for Crossrail. Only 4 and 5 months respectively which is no time at all given looming Summer holidays.

 

[700007]

On a related note the Barking - Gospel Oak service has now lost one of its class 172s. It has been taken by the leasing company in preparation for service with West Midlands Trains. This means all of the peak time extras including the Woodgrange Park - Willesden Junction AM peak working were withdrawn as from 2 July 2018. As things stand the 172s will go by November with no real clarity as to when a class 710 will actually be able to turn a wheel on the NR network under its own power never mind be actually delivered to London and put into passenger service.

We are now getting to the point where every possible risk on the risk registers for GOBLIN electrification and new rolling stock will have materialised. Someone, somewhere is going to have to get their fingers out or else the GOBLIN will turn into TfL's "Thameslink-esque" fiasco alongside whatever compromised "opening" materialises for Crossrail. Only 4 and 5 months respectively which is no time at all given looming Summer holidays.

Yeah this came into effect on Monday. Without the peak time extras on the line, things have gotten horrible. The trains are even more crowded than they used to be and the trains still running I've noticed are starting to run late now (due to it taking forever for passengers to get on and off the overcrowded trains). If a train goes kaput, which I imagine will happen, it will make things even worse. Arriva / TfL should've really paid as much money to the ROSCO as they could to keep the 172s as long as it could take.

The 710s need to come into service soon!

 

[absolutelymilk]

Has any 710 testing started on the GOBLIN?

 

[swt_passenger]

Reading back suggests there are no 710s in the London area to do any testing...

 

[87015]

Arriva / TfL should've really paid as much money to the ROSCO as they could to keep the 172s as long as it could take.

All should have been at WMT now to be diagrammed in September (Snow Hill strengthening) so just loosing one for three months seems about best likely case given the works needed by WMT. It doesn’t substantially affect the timetable, what more do you think should have been done?