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Diamond Bus (Warwickshire, West Midlands, Worcestershire)

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I’m equally confused.

Are WMCA involved in the 125? Does it enter the West Midlands?
Yes the Service 125 is Stourbridge - Kidderminster- Bewdley - Highley - Bridgenorth.

Between Stourbridge (WMCA) & Kidderminster it is fully commercial. Occasional journeys between Highley & Kidderminster are supported by Worcestershire County Council whilst most journeys between Highley & Bridgnorth are supported by Shropshire Council.

As the Shropshire Council & Worcestershire County Council are both non constitution members of The West Midands Combined Aithority the concession fares within the WMCA are administered by TfWM the route is part of The West Midands Bus Alliance although TfWM do not financially support the route direct.
 
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Stan Drews

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The service crosses three tendering authorities:
1. WMCA
2. Worcestershire County Council
3. Shropshire County Council.

Certain journeys within Shropshire & Worcestershire are supported by Shropshire Council with minority funding from Worcestershire County Council. The section of route in The West Midlands County is fully commercial and part of The West Midlands Bus Alliance
Ah, so it’s just a standard tendering arrangement with Shropshire and Worcestershire Councils, presumably tendered by SCC. The ‘partnership’ relates to the commercial part into the WMCA area, but isn’t a financial arrangement with any direct support for journeys on the 125. Thanks for clarifying.
 

Pat1105

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I wasn't jumping the gun you are wrong I am afraid with regard to the WMCA.
Shropshire Council is an non constitute member of The West Midlands Combined Authority.

Alex Philips is the Cabinet Member of Shropshire Council who attends The West Midlands Combined Authority on matters regarding West Midlands Bus.
My comments were not about WMCA/WMB in the slightest. You’ve brought them into this unnecessarily and created confusion. They were about Shropshire Council and their involvement on the 125 route. Obviously, I know that Shropshire Council is a non constitute member of the WMCA, as they are not in the West Midlands borough. Also, my comments about Councils chucking money were generalised and not aimed at TfWM. So, i’ll say it again, please don’t jump the gun and accuse me of being wrong. Please read my posts, as well as other members, and gauge the context of the discussion before you start to correct me (I am happy to be corrected if I have provided incorrect information). That way, we won’t end up with any more confusion.

I’m equally confused.

Are WMCA involved in the 125? Does it enter the West Midlands?
The 125 does enter the West Midlands, at it goes to Stourbridge.
 
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My comments were not about WMCA/WMB in the slightest. You’ve brought them into this unnecessarily and created confusion. They were about Shropshire Council and their involvement on the 125 route. Obviously, I know that Shropshire Council is a non constitute member of the WMCA, as they are not in the West Midlands borough. Also, my comments about Councils chucking money were generalised and not aimed at TfWM. So, i’ll say it again, please don’t jump the gun and accuse me of being wrong. Please read my posts, as well as other members, and gauge the context of the discussion before you start to correct me (I am happy to be corrected if I have provided incorrect information). That way, we won’t end up with any more confusion.


The 125 does enter the West Midlands, at it goes to Stourbridge.
This is a thread about Diamond Bus which is part of The Bus Alliance.

The 125 operates within West Midlands County . Shropshire Council is a non constitute members of the WMCA.

Therefore the service operates within three different tendering authorities for BSOG & Concesionery Fare purposes. Shropshire Council is not the only source of funding for the 125.

Worcestershire County Council and the WMCA contribute renumeration to the service which is the reason I corrected you.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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My comments were not about WMCA/WMB in the slightest. You’ve brought them into this unnecessarily and created confusion. They were about Shropshire Council and their involvement on the 125 route. Obviously, I know that Shropshire Council is a non constitute member of the WMCA, as they are not in the West Midlands borough. Also, my comments about Councils chucking money were generalised and not aimed at TfWM. So, i’ll say it again, please don’t jump the gun and accuse me of being wrong. Please read my posts, as well as other members, and gauge the context of the discussion before you start to correct me (I am happy to be corrected if I have provided incorrect information). That way, we won’t end up with any more confusion.


The 125 does enter the West Midlands, at it goes to Stourbridge.

I was confused as it passes from Shropshire into Worcestershire but I didn’t know if it passed from Shropshire into West Midlands somehow that would explain a partnership.

It’s too much for a man of advanced years!!!
 
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I was confused as it passes from Shropshire into Worcestershire but I didn’t know if it passed from Shropshire into West Midlands somehow that would explain a partnership.

It’s too much for a man of advanced years!!!
With the elected mayor ; Andy Street; heading The West Midlands Combined Authority then controlling The West Midlands Bus Alliance & also controlling Transport For West Midlands who are controlling West Midlands Bus.

As insider @TheGrandWazoo I am trying my best to explain the very complex structure of buses in the West Midlands today which is why I do not comment on NXWM afairs. It was not my intention to be rude in any way to @Pat1105 I just try to correct the complicated administrative structure & where Diamond Bus fits in to this all.
 

Pat1105

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I was confused as it passes from Shropshire into Worcestershire but I didn’t know if it passed from Shropshire into West Midlands somehow that would explain a partnership.

It’s too much for a man of advanced years!!!
It goes from Bridgnorth in Shropshire, to Kidderminster in Worcestershire and then to Stourbridge in the West Midlands.
 

bussnapperwm

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I believe that the tenders are dealt with by Shrops as lead authority between them and Worcestershire, with Worcs providing additional funding for certain journeys as part of the tender.

The only involvement that TfWM have is concessionary fare reimbursement involving journeys in or from their area.

Even though Shropshire and Worcestershire are part members of the WMCA, the WMCA's remit is only through the TfWM concessionary fare reimbursement. Nothing more, nothing less.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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I believe that the tenders are dealt with by Shrops as lead authority between them and Worcestershire, with Worcs providing additional funding for certain journeys as part of the tender.

The only involvement that TfWM have is concessionary fare reimbursement involving journeys in or from their area.

Even though Shropshire and Worcestershire are part members of the WMCA, the WMCA's remit is only through the TfWM concessionary fare reimbursement. Nothing more, nothing less.


Thanks for that. So to clarify...

The 125 spans the jurisdiction of three authorities as it passes from Shropshire into Worcestershire and then into West Midlands.

The section that spans Worcestershire to West Midlands (Kidderminster to Stourbridge) is fully commercial and is not supported by West Midlands (except for ENCTS reimbursement).

The section that spans Shropshire to Worcestershire is commercial but with some journeys that are supported by Shropshire Council with some financial contribution from Worcestershire Council. These are undertaken on a standard tender basis administered by Shropshire Council (i.e. Diamond provide a service against a set of agreed criteria that Shropshire CC then pay for) and there is no enhanced or formal partnership.

Is that it?
 
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Thanks for that. So to clarify...

The 125 spans the jurisdiction of three authorities as it passes from Shropshire into Worcestershire and then into West Midlands.

The section that spans Worcestershire to West Midlands (Kidderminster to Stourbridge) is fully commercial and is not supported by West Midlands (except for ENCTS reimbursement).

The section that spans Shropshire to Worcestershire is commercial but with some journeys that are supported by Shropshire Council with some financial contribution from Worcestershire Council. These are undertaken on a standard tender basis administered by Shropshire Council (i.e. Diamond provide a service against a set of agreed criteria that Shropshire CC then pay for) and there is no enhanced or formal partnership.

Is that it?
I explained this fully in #121 & #124 the complex nature of what is an Shhropshire Tender with additional support from WCC & concession fare reimbursement from TfWM although for OfTC purposes the service is registered to operate in WMCA , Worcestershire & Shropshire .

All bus services however that operate within West Midlands County fall under The West Midands Bus Alliance and are a formal partnership between the operator and the WMCA in this case Diamond Bus.
 

Stan Drews

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Thanks for that. So to clarify...

The 125 spans the jurisdiction of three authorities as it passes from Shropshire into Worcestershire and then into West Midlands.

The section that spans Worcestershire to West Midlands (Kidderminster to Stourbridge) is fully commercial and is not supported by West Midlands (except for ENCTS reimbursement).

The section that spans Shropshire to Worcestershire is commercial but with some journeys that are supported by Shropshire Council with some financial contribution from Worcestershire Council. These are undertaken on a standard tender basis administered by Shropshire Council (i.e. Diamond provide a service against a set of agreed criteria that Shropshire CC then pay for) and there is no enhanced or formal partnership.

Is that it?
It all sounds remarkably like probably hundreds of similar cross boundary tenders across the UK.
 

GusB

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Recent posts pertaining to Hallmark have been moved to the general Rotala thread:

 

LancasterRed

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As an aside, Rotala are rolling out a near identical livery to this in Preston:

1508x1181_dudley_new_streetlite.jpg
The new livery is:
EZqxiliXsAEMS6i.jpg
So this will allow for easier interchangeability between buses but considering the unpopularity of Rotala in Preston I'm surprised they're making such long term investments.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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As an aside, Rotala are rolling out a near identical livery to this in Preston:

View attachment 79391
The new livery is:
View attachment 79392
So this will allow for easier interchangeability between buses but considering the unpopularity of Rotala in Preston I'm surprised they're making such long term investments.

Thing is...why not make it identical? Would make for easier transfers - the number of vehicles in full Preston Bus livery on Diamond NW work was crazy - and across the group
 
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Thing is...why not make it identical? Would make for easier transfers - the number of vehicles in full Preston Bus livery on Diamond NW work was crazy - and across the group
Preston Bus is an unique entity and Mr Dunn confirmed on WM BUS FORUMS that there are no plans to apply the Diamond Bus brand to Preston.

I fully agree with him here and in my opinion the market in The West Midlands and Manchester is completely different to the market in Preston & totally unsuitable for the Diamond Bus brand.
 

winston270twm

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Thing is...why not make it identical? Would make for easier transfers - the number of vehicles in full Preston Bus livery on Diamond NW work was crazy - and across the group

Two Preston liveried Solo's that have been operating out of Bolton for some time have very recently been repainted in to DBNW livery. As have some of the East Lancs Esteem bodied Scania's. Yourbus livery has also been removed from Bolton's fleet.
 
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Two Preston liveried Solo's that have been operating out of Bolton for some time have very recently been repainted in to DBNW livery. As have some of the East Lancs Esteem bodied Scania's. Yourbus livery has also been removed from Bolton's fleet.
Diamond Bus in the Black Country also had a vehicle in full Preston Bus livery on the 202 now withdraw just before lockdown which I used myself from Balmoral Road, Bartley Green.
 

chopperman21

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Does anyone know why they have an open top decker on regular services?

The weather's 'nice' so why not.
Go North East are doing the same https://www.flickr.com/photos/124193440@N06/50329750353/in/dateposted-public/
 

Bwsbro

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Typhoon

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Haven't Diamond pulled out of the joint/co-ordinated services ?

Yes, they said they had lost revenue and so were pulling out for financial reasons.
Detailed statement at WMBP Statement | Diamond Bus (diamondbuses.com)
I have emphasised the key section below but I think it is clear from the whole statement that they are far from satisfied and are moving from collaboration mode to competition mode.

Diamond Bus has given notice to Transport for West Midlands (“TfWM”) to exit the current partnership arrangements on the 31/32 Walsall to Mossley & Lower Farm, 40 West Bromwich to Wednesbury, 42 West Bromwich to Dudley and 43 West Bromwich to Bilston services. These arrangements will terminate on 28th August 2021.

The decision was not an easy one to make. We believe in working collaboratively for the benefit of the passengers we serve.

Prior to the COVID pandemic the financial performance of the services involved had declined; and this decline was discussed with TfWM as part of a conversation about reforming the then Partnership services in late 2019 and has been part of subsequent conversations since.

The current arrangements allow each operator(s) tickets to be accepted on the other operators services with the exception of the Diamond monthly ticket. In our opinion on reflection - supported by leading Transport Economist Oxera - the ticketing initiatives, route branding, and the premium attached to NBus, which we have never supported, have re-inforced the National Express business. The ticket sales over time have moved away from Diamond to pre-paid National Express tickets, especially on the back of Mobile Phone app initiatives.

In Manchester we are the second largest operator, and the Mayor of Manchester is following a franchising route. His target is to make multi operator ticketing easier and without premium. We support this desire, but it can be delivered without franchising and our expressed view to TfWM is that they should have the same aspiration in delivering this for bus passengers in the West Midlands.

Without this, and in a world where passenger levels are not expected to recover to pre COVID levels, the existing arrangements clearly mean the current services - without reform - will be heavily loss-making for our business, and hence our decision to terminate the partnerships.

Diamond Bus will continue to operate independently on the majority of these routes from 29th August, offering a new regular service timetable. Passengers will still be able to enjoy the same enhanced onboard Diamond services such as next stop screens and passenger Wifi, that were provided within the agreements and will be offered the best rate fares available on the Diamond Bus network. Diamond Bus will also be introducing a new range of Tap&Go fares. With Tap&Go passengers can travel flexibly, by just tapping on and off with their contactless payment card each time they travel and the best value fare for journeys they have taken will be calculated.

The regulation for changing bus timetables requires a 70 day notice period. We have submitted our revised independent operator timetable proposals to TfWM. The first submission has been rejected by TfWM and consequently we will need to reduce the timetable. When we have the final timetables approved in due course we will promote them through our various media channels.
 

GusB

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It appears that there have been some developments regarding this situation mentioned in the last few posts.


Rotala-owned Diamond Buses is in negotiations with Transport for West Midlands (TfWM) and National Express West Midlands to continue a local bus service partnership. Earlier this year, Diamond gave notice on its participation in the West Midlands Partnership service agreement, claiming the current arrangement was not viable for it to consider further.

Since early August, the operator has been in negotiations with TfWM and National Express West Midlands to try and agree a process, whereby the partnership services can continue to be operated in what Diamond describes as a sustainable way.

At the time of writing, a final arrangement is yet to be reached, but Diamond Bus has agreed to continue accepting and selling NX tickets on partnership routes for a further four-week period. National Express will also continue to accept and sell Diamond Value products, as per the current agreement.
 

Flange Squeal

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It has been announced on Johnsons Coaches’ Facebook page that their bus services (branded ‘Excelbus’) are being acquired by Rotala under their existing ‘Diamond’ name, from 30th May.


Johnsons ‘Excelbus’ Bus Services to be taken over by Diamond Bus Ltd.

Please note that Johnsons holidays, excursions, private hire and School service operations are not part of this agreement.

Peter Johnson, our Operations Director says, “As we look forward and consider the challenges of meeting the needs of air quality and environmental issues, through electric, and then hydrogen powered vehicles, we have decided that we must now focus on building our coach business in terms of holidays, day trips, private coach hire and school services.

Therefore, we have made the decision to sell our ‘Excelbus’ operations to Rotala PLC’s subsidiary, Diamond Bus Limited.
This announcement brings to an end our involvement in local bus services, after nearly 23 years of operation. The deal includes 18 buses and other assets and is expected to be concluded on 29th May. This will increase Rotala’s presence in Warwickshire and the West Midlands as the deal includes all bus services currently provided by ourselves, including the X20 Stratford – Solihull service, the 150 Redditch – Birmingham services and Stratford’s Park and Ride services.

All our ‘Excelbus’ commercial and tendered work, plus most drivers and some operating staff will join the Diamond Bus West Midlands operation, working from Diamond’s existing depot at Redditch. Simon Dunn, Rotala Chief Executive, says that the vehicles will rapidly be rebranded into the Diamond Bus livery. While the buses move to Diamond Bus, Johnsons will continue to operate 45 coaches and employ 180 staff under our existing long-established family brand name.

John Johnson, Commercial Director, adds, “We are proud to continue to offer the high-quality coach services Johnsons is known for. As an industry leader and multi-award winner we are committed to growing our coach business for the long term, and we look forward to continuing to provide a high quality and friendly service for our customers.”

You’ll be pleased to know that most of our bus drivers are being taken on by Diamond Bus, so although the name on the buses and the livery will be different, you will continue to see some familiar friendly faces at the wheel!

On behalf of all of us here at Johnsons, we would like to thank all our bus service customers, who have supported us over many years; your patronage and loyalty is very much appreciated. We hope that you will continue to travel with us until Sunday 29th May and that you will have no hesitation to travel with Diamond Bus from Monday 30th May onwards.

Finally, at this point in time as this sale is announced, we do want to offer our heart-felt thanks, to all of our bus drivers, whether long standing or those who have more recently joined us, for their great service, support and loyalty. Again, it is very much appreciated.

Thank you.

From Peter and John Johnson.
 
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