First Greater Glasgow

[Arriva Fan]

Wouldn't say the numbering is messy but the way services were split or not split was inconsistent. For example, the 56 became the 10 just to fit in with the 9/9A yet it didn't need to change as it fitted in with the 57 anyway and it was something people were familiar with.

As for the 1s and 38s they do need some sorting out to cut the number of route variations down.

35/36/37 could replace the 38B/C/E to simplify that down a bit.

With the 1s the 1C and 1D should have been X services and then you could make a bigger deal out of the rest being West Dunbartonshire/Argyll and Bute connections. Could have the Mountblow bus being an X2 and the Drumchapel one being an X6 so you could then market the X2/X4/X6 as a trio of expresses

The 10/56 change is, to me, proof it's messy. Changing the 56 to the 10 to fit with the 9 is great, but only works if the corresponding 57 was re-numbered 20. Then there's the 9/10 and 10/20 Corridors for example.

The Govan - Shawlands Service is the 3 & 34. Works better as 33/34 or 3 & 33. They tried to make neat Corridors and number groups, but it hasn't worked.

 

[ScotRail158725]

The 10/56 change is, to me, proof it's messy. Changing the 56 to the 10 to fit with the 9 is great, but only works if the corresponding 57 was re-numbered 20. Then there's the 9/10 and 10/20 Corridors for example.

The Govan - Shawlands Service is the 3 & 34. Works better as 33/34 or 3 & 33. They tried to make neat Corridors and number groups, but it hasn't worked.

does it matter though? its not even remotely confusing for people who use those corridors. the users know what route number they want and where it goes it doesn’t need to be all numerically similar or whatever

 

[Arriva Fan]

does it matter though? its not even remotely confusing for people who use those corridors. the users know what route number they want and where it goes it doesn’t need to be all numerically similar or whatever

I don't know, perhaps we should have asked First that in 2012.

If it does matter, if Numerically Uniform Corridors matter in terms of marketing then do it right. If it doesn't, leave it as is. Changing the 62 to the 2 was pointless in my opinion.

 

[kez19]

I noticed yesterday at Silverburn one of First bus has on the back “upgraded/retrofitted for LEZ” just shortened it, at least it’s been advertised.

It was an Enviro 200 single decker (I dont know which division of First bus belonged to would have said Greater Glasgow but unsure), the route it was on was either 2 or 3 if that’s relevant to where the bus comes from/division

 

[route101]

I noticed yesterday at Silverburn one of First bus has on the back “upgraded/retrofitted for LEZ” just shortened it, at least it’s been advertised.

It was an Enviro 200 single decker (I dont know which division of First bus belonged to would have said Greater Glasgow but unsure), the route it was on was either 2 or 3 if that’s relevant to where the bus comes from/division

Would of been a E300. First Glasgow No1, and route 3.

I don't know, perhaps we should have asked First that in 2012.

If it does matter, if Numerically Uniform Corridors matter in terms of marketing then do it right. If it doesn't, leave it as is. Changing the 62 to the 2 was pointless in my opinion.

I thought the Simplicity renumbering and changes were going to continue at a later date. It obviously hasnt happened.

 

[PaulMc7]

It is pretty interesting what services were affected and renumbered with Simplicity. I was pretty lucky with my local buses as all that happened was numbers being hacked off the front of existing numbers and I think only the 23 changing into the 3 resulted in a reroute near me.

1s were already a thing from November 2012, 62 became the 2, 66 became the 6 and slightly further away the 44 became the 4. I know it did cause a lot of confusion for other people but some areas were luckier than others. Timetables and routes should have been public far earlier than they were. Most I seen changed over the day before where I stay and in East Kilbride when I went to my friends house.

Wonder if we will see any other changes to get more out of routes and services so PVR can be cut further where needed

 

[JumpinTrainz]

The Simplicity changes definitely were a bit of a half hearted attempt. The numbering system was brought in to make it “simpler” however that’s questionable.

The 62 was renumbered the 2 while the 38 was kept as it was instead of renumbering it the 8 as it was the bigger route than the current number 8 (you could have made that another number). Like was said before the 56 became the 10 while the 57 remained unchanged. I probably would have combined the 3 and the 9 but with A and B suffixes. The 60/61/41 could be renumbered the 3A/3B/3C as they are the routes coming from the east end running closely alongside the 2.

It all seemed a bit messy to me. The amalgamation of depots into the one have also only caused for the fleet to be messier. There’s no structure on which buses appear where. Literally any bus could turn up on any route out of any of the Caledonia routes where as before it was much easier to manage. Prior to this you would never see a B9TL anywhere near the east end. Not the biggest problem in the world but just an observation

 

[route101]

The Simplicity changes definitely were a bit of a half hearted attempt. The numbering system was brought in to make it “simpler” however that’s questionable.

The 62 was renumbered the 2 while the 38 was kept as it was instead of renumbering it the 8 as it was the bigger route than the current number 8 (you could have made that another number). Like was said before the 56 became the 10 while the 57 remained unchanged. I probably would have combined the 3 and the 9 but with A and B suffixes. The 60/61/41 could be renumbered the 3A/3B/3C as they are the routes coming from the east end running closely alongside the 2.

It all seemed a bit messy to me. The amalgamation of depots into the one have also only caused for the fleet to be messier. There’s no structure on which buses appear where. Literally any bus could turn up on any route out of any of the Caledonia routes where as before it was much easier to manage. Prior to this you would never see a B9TL anywhere near the east end. Not the biggest problem in the world but just an observation

They did keep the Parkhead and Cumbernauld buses separate at Caley for a good while. The drivers are certainly still separate.

 

[kez19]

Would of been a E300. First Glasgow No1, and route 3.



I thought the Simplicity renumbering and changes were going to continue at a later date. It obviously hasnt happened.

Apologies regarding bus model, First Glasgow 1?, I’m guessing the number 1 is from the depot(?) it resides

(just with that mentioned my m tickets receipt does mention First Glasgow 1 and 2...)

Personal opinion here overall with First Glasgow (have used them on visiting) but I think some of the staff are helpful, I was at Buchanan Bus Station was waiting on a bus to get me quicker to The Forge than use the 38/60 from North Frederick Street, 240 turned up, driver on 255 asked me where I was going mentioned destination and said get on board (had to wait 5 mins but no big deal there).

Just to add what bus is it that’s on return via West Nile Street towards bus station (remember nearly all buses came down that road then road layout changed)

 

[tbtc]

This is the original 62A route from the late 80s which I think competed with a Kelvin Scottish/Kelvin Central route (may have been one of the 5 variants). Then the 62A was replaced by the 40 in the late 90s which instead continued on Duke Street through Drygate then turned left onto High Street then Glasgow Cross, Trongate etc but this only lasted around 3 or 4 years and it went back to Bellgrove, Gallowgate and the Barras. I think it's essentially seen as 3 services for eastend folk, Easterhouse and Barlanark to Shettleston and Parkhead, Shettleston and Parkhead to Dennistoun and Dennistoun to Glasgow Cross and City Centre.

As a child I remember the 60 and 61 being the main services, and very busy in those days, on Maryhill Road and the 60 on Duke Street and 61 on Gallowgate. I was rather pleased to see the 60 number reintroduced in the Simplicity brand although the differences to pre 1980s is that it doesn't go via Garscube Road and from the City Centre straight out to Duke Street via George Street. The 61 outhwith changes to City Centre traffic management has been the same from Tollcross to Maryhill for 60 years or longer.

Thanks for explaining - I used to struggle to work out the differences between the SBG and Strathclyde services back in those days as there was no one map with them all on it, so it was hard to compare the 5/5a with the 62a (and other Easterhouse services)

On the subject of the 38 numbering system, the way I look at it is B to Barlanark, C to Chryston and E to Edinburgh Road with the main 38 to Garthamlock as it's done for many years so it's probably easier to understand than you think.

Eastbound, yes, but they don't need all those different numbers for southbound journeys - just one for buses that divert away from the main road towards Rouken Glen and one for journeys that stay on the main road towards Eastwood Toll/ Newton Mearns.

Passeners wanting their bus home to the southside don't care where the bus came *from* IMHO *(same applies to the eastbound 9/9a/10 on Paisley Road West)

If it does matter, if Numerically Uniform Corridors matter in terms of marketing then do it right. If it doesn't, leave it as is. Changing the 62 to the 2 was pointless in my opinion.

I can understand what they were trying to do, but it sometimes seems contradictory - e.g. replacing large numbered services like the 44/62/66/57 with lower numbers like 2/4/6/6a/ 10 - easier to remember etc - but then the 40 becomes the 60 (which makes sense to co-ordinate with the 61, but how come the 61 is so important that the twenty year old 40 was renumbered to fit in, whilst other long established routes were "simplified" into much lower numbers.

 

[PaulMc7]

The numbering changes would even have worked if it was solely the services with new routes etc that changed and others with no changes stayed the same. Surprised Lanarkshire outside of East Kilbride went unaffected by Simplicity if I remember correctly too

 

[kez19]

Is First Glasgow 1/2 from the same depot or I’ll try and word it what I think ... maybe registered address?

 

[GusB]

Is First Glasgow 1/2 from the same depot or I’ll try and word it what I think ... maybe registered address?

There are two legal entities that make up First Glasgow:

• First Glasgow No.1 Ltd (former Strathclyde)
• First Glasgow No.2 Ltd (former Kelvin Central)

 

[kez19]

There are two legal entities that make up First Glasgow:

• First Glasgow No.1 Ltd (former Strathclyde)
• First Glasgow No.2 Ltd (former Kelvin Central)

Thank you for posting/explanation didn’t know this

 

[LT02 NVV]

Sorry I have been inactive for a while, but I have been wonder about LT02 NWC, I think it will be getting withdrawn soon.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

Sorry I have been inactive for a while, but I have been wonder about LT02 NWC, I think it will be getting withdrawn soon.

I don’t see it going until we get COVID under control. FIG needs all the deckers it can get.

 

[PaulMc7]

Wouldn't be surprised if double deckers on certain routes became a way of being able to cut the frequency just to save where possible. Don't know how many routes that could affect though.

 

[LT02 NVV]

I really miss the presidents in Glasgow, My Favourites were LT02 NVV (of course), LK51 UZF, LN51 GMV just to name a few, too bad only LT02 NWC is the last one sadly in service. I wish LT02 NVV was kept as well.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

I really miss the presidents in Glasgow, My Favourites were LT02 NVV (of course), LK51 UZF, LN51 GMV just to name a few, too bad only LT02 NWC is the last one sadly in service. I wish LT02 NVV was kept as well.

I hated that time when all of the ex-London tridents appeared in Glasgow. The 61 was riddled with them at one stage when it had been a route to receive mainly new vehicles at a time. I really don’t know what they were thinking with the 61 - it’s a busy route which has remained virtually untouched in years yet nowadays it has older buses on it (refurbished maybe but albeit older stock).

Out of all the ex-London stock the 51/02 plates were the more decent ones. The looked tidier inside and out.

 

[Busman84]

At one stage the 61 was to recieve new Enviro 400s after the Olympics. Orders were changed so that Glasgow would be flooded with single deckers (Enviro 300s) and the E400s were diverted somewhere else after there service at London Olympics.. Glasgow went from years of getting as many deckers as they could do all that work ruined by all these single deckers coming in 2012. Took to 2015 again before we seen new deckers

 

[LT02 NVV]

I hated that time when all of the ex-London tridents appeared in Glasgow. The 61 was riddled with them at one stage when it had been a route to receive mainly new vehicles at a time. I really don’t know what they were thinking with the 61 - it’s a busy route which has remained virtually untouched in years yet nowadays it has older buses on it (refurbished maybe but albeit older stock).

Out of all the ex-London stock the 51/02 plates were the more decent ones. The looked tidier inside and out.

Yeah, The ALX400's were the ones I hated, though you are right about the condition of some of them.

LN51 GKL Once looked like this:

First Glasgow 33054 (LN51GKL)

Transforming Travel...Better journeys for life.... Typical output from First Glasgow and its contemptible standard of vehicle presentation in Glasgow represented by this superannuated former London Trident/Plaxton entering Bridge Street. Vehicles like this should not be in daily frontline...

www.flickr.com

But Thankfully they repainted it before withdraw:

33054 LN51GKL First Glasgow

LN51 GKL is a Dennis Trident/Plaxton President new to First Capital as their TN1054 in December 2001. On disposal from London, it entered the Glasgow fleet within First and is seen here in Glasgow working service 21 to Cathkin.

www.flickr.com

But the Presidents where a lot more better, not only because they looked cool, but because they were more reliable compared to the ALX400s, as I only ever seen a couple of Presidents break down, rather than lots of ALX400s broken down on the 60,60a and 61.

At one stage the 61 was to recieve new Enviro 400s after the Olympics. Orders were changed so that Glasgow would be flooded with single deckers (Enviro 300s) and the E400s were diverted somewhere else after there service at London Olympics.. Glasgow went from years of getting as many deckers as they could do all that work ruined by all these single deckers coming in 2012. Took to 2015 again before we seen new deckers

The E400s were moved to Manchester.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

Yeah, The ALX400's were the ones I hated, though you are right about the condition of some of them.

LN51 GKL Once looked like this:

First Glasgow 33054 (LN51GKL)

Transforming Travel...Better journeys for life.... Typical output from First Glasgow and its contemptible standard of vehicle presentation in Glasgow represented by this superannuated former London Trident/Plaxton entering Bridge Street. Vehicles like this should not be in daily frontline...

www.flickr.com

But Thankfully they repainted it before withdraw:

33054 LN51GKL First Glasgow

LN51 GKL is a Dennis Trident/Plaxton President new to First Capital as their TN1054 in December 2001. On disposal from London, it entered the Glasgow fleet within First and is seen here in Glasgow working service 21 to Cathkin.

www.flickr.com

But the Presidents where a lot more better, not only because they looked cool, but because they were more reliable compared to the ALX400s, as I only ever seen a couple of Presidents break down, rather than lots of ALX400s broken down on the 60,60a and 61.



The E400s were moved to Manchester.

That’s quite disappointing considering the 61 really needed new stock at that time. Instead the route got refurbished ALX400s which were 8 years old at that time. They were run alongside dirty looking B7TLs of the same age and even older presidents. Now we have refurbished B9TLs which is an improvement but the 61 surely merits new buses. New E400MMCs would be great for that route.

 

[PaulMc7]

Considering the route isn't massive and where it serves the 61 must surely be up there in terms of profit per mile?

Always a busy route when I've used it. Few times off peak when double deckers were practically full too

Speaking of passenger numbers etc it seems to be a thing through Scotstoun/Yoker direction that the buses are far busier between 7pm and 9pm now than at the old peaks.

Plenty of "Bus full" mentioned on the app tonight and buses running late as a result

 

[kez19]

That’s quite disappointing considering the 61 really needed new stock at that time. Instead the route got refurbished ALX400s which were 8 years old at that time. They were run alongside dirty looking B7TLs of the same age and even older presidents. Now we have refurbished B9TLs which is an improvement but the 61 surely merits new buses. New E400MMCs would be great for that route.

Speaking as an outsider but do they not use the Gemini (1's) on the 61? I am sure during the week I thought I seen one with that advertised, looked on Flickr seems I was right!
I do like the new buses on the 77, the ones that talk I noticed in some areas there is no announcement of stop.

Also bit of a stupid question, I noticed on their destination displays they say
77 - City Centre VIA BUCHANAN BUS STATION, don’t get me wrong I like the font (seems similar to Stagecoach in the area), any reason why they dropped the via points rolling? (I also thought bud companies weren’t allowed to capitalise unless it’s changed?)

 

[GaryMcEwan]

Speaking as an outsider but do they not use the Gemini (1's) on the 61? I am sure during the week I thought I seen one with that advertised, looked on Flickr seems I was right!
I do like the new buses on the 77, the ones that talk I noticed in some areas there is no announcement of stop.

Also bit of a stupid question, I noticed on their destination displays they say
77 - City Centre VIA BUCHANAN BUS STATION, don’t get me wrong I like the font (seems similar to Stagecoach in the area), any reason why they dropped the via points rolling? (I also thought bud companies weren’t allowed to capitalise unless it’s changed?)

The 61s have their own branded B9TL's but during the pandemic various vehicles were on a lot of routes they aren't usually on.

The on board announcements only give the main stops along the route.

 

[kez19]

The 61s have their own branded B9TL's but during the pandemic various vehicles were on a lot of routes they aren't usually on.

The on board announcements only give the main stops along the route.

I wondered that!

I noticed with George Square partially shut off/pedestrianised I notice a few buses have had to divert via North Frederick Street (or as the tour buses share the stops), 500 Glasgow Airport as well as the tour buses (just the 2 that springs to mind).

I don't know the route planning but why do some of the routes have to go Cathedral Street, Bath Street, Renfield Street, Argyll Street to pick up? An example, say the 240, 255. 267 from Buchanan Bus Station wouldn't it be easier just to turn left and then go along Cathedral Street than to what looks like doubling back going via Argyll Street? (OK I don't stay in Glasgow but when I was on the 255 I was surprised at the way it went and wondered why that could have been shortened? (I know on the other hand they need passengers) but just wondered

 

[PaulMc7]

67772

First Glasgow's Alexander Dennis E300 67772 is seen here in Campsie Glen making an extremely rare appearance for any type of single decker to be on the X85

www.flickr.com

Seen this picture of an E300 branded 2 on the X85 on Flickr from earlier in the week. Certainly one of the most random places I've seen 1 of those 2 branded buses turn up. Seen one on an 8 a few weeks ago too

 

[route101]

67772

First Glasgow's Alexander Dennis E300 67772 is seen here in Campsie Glen making an extremely rare appearance for any type of single decker to be on the X85

www.flickr.com

Seen this picture of an E300 branded 2 on the X85 on Flickr from earlier in the week. Certainly one of the most random places I've seen 1 of those 2 branded buses turn up. Seen one on an 8 a few weeks ago too

The branded 2 buses are often seen on the 7.

Yeah, The ALX400's were the ones I hated, though you are right about the condition of some of them.

LN51 GKL Once looked like this:

First Glasgow 33054 (LN51GKL)

Transforming Travel...Better journeys for life.... Typical output from First Glasgow and its contemptible standard of vehicle presentation in Glasgow represented by this superannuated former London Trident/Plaxton entering Bridge Street. Vehicles like this should not be in daily frontline...

www.flickr.com

But Thankfully they repainted it before withdraw:

33054 LN51GKL First Glasgow

LN51 GKL is a Dennis Trident/Plaxton President new to First Capital as their TN1054 in December 2001. On disposal from London, it entered the Glasgow fleet within First and is seen here in Glasgow working service 21 to Cathkin.

www.flickr.com

But the Presidents where a lot more better, not only because they looked cool, but because they were more reliable compared to the ALX400s, as I only ever seen a couple of Presidents break down, rather than lots of ALX400s broken down on the 60,60a and 61.



The E400s were moved to Manchester.

Had a fair few Presidents or tridents break down. LT02NWB was cursed on the 31.

My fav was the W reg, as they had comfier seats.

ALX 400s sounded better.

Speaking as an outsider but do they not use the Gemini (1's) on the 61? I am sure during the week I thought I seen one with that advertised, looked on Flickr seems I was right!
I do like the new buses on the 77, the ones that talk I noticed in some areas there is no announcement of stop.

Also bit of a stupid question, I noticed on their destination displays they say
77 - City Centre VIA BUCHANAN BUS STATION, don’t get me wrong I like the font (seems similar to Stagecoach in the area), any reason why they dropped the via points rolling? (I also thought bud companies weren’t allowed to capitalise unless it’s changed?)

Had 09 plate gemini on 61 yesterday. It looks like theres still unfinished 61 branded buses out.

At one stage the 61 was to recieve new Enviro 400s after the Olympics. Orders were changed so that Glasgow would be flooded with single deckers (Enviro 300s) and the E400s were diverted somewhere else after there service at London Olympics.. Glasgow went from years of getting as many deckers as they could do all that work ruined by all these single deckers coming in 2012. Took to 2015 again before we seen new deckers

Yeah, not a good ideas ordering all them singles.

I really miss the presidents in Glasgow, My Favourites were LT02 NVV (of course), LK51 UZF, LN51 GMV just to name a few, too bad only LT02 NWC is the last one sadly in service. I wish LT02 NVV was kept as well.

I find it strange they kept just one going for a long time.

 

[Jordan Adam]

My fav was the W reg, as they had comfier seats.

Perhaps but they were some of the most sluggish buses on earth! We have various T-Y reg Presidents all Ex-Glasgow and they were hit or miss, mostly miss. Aberdeen drivers hated them all.

 

[Zakforbes4]

67772

First Glasgow's Alexander Dennis E300 67772 is seen here in Campsie Glen making an extremely rare appearance for any type of single decker to be on the X85

www.flickr.com

Seen this picture of an E300 branded 2 on the X85 on Flickr from earlier in the week. Certainly one of the most random places I've seen 1 of those 2 branded buses turn up. Seen one on an 8 a few weeks ago too

The 8 isn't so bad as they both go through Partick and Tollcross