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New Scottish COVID-19 Restrictions 07/10/2020

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She didn’t claim she’d “get back to you on that”? That seems to be her line of choice when someone asks a question she can’t answer.
I have to say I’m pretty disappointed in what I’ve seen today. It was only a few days ago she seemed to be claiming that the early action taken up here meant we’d hopefully avoid a nationwide lockdown. Now it seems Westminster has some furlough money available, so lockdown is apparently a more viable option.

The issue seems to hinge on the uncertaincy as to whether Scotland would have access to the furlough scheme beyond the end of the English lockdown V2 - The UK Government has not clarified either way as yet

The infection rates in Scotland are different from England and our rate seems to be leveling out faster at the moment. It may well be that we end up with Scotland-wide lockdown but that doesn't seem necessary just now (especially outside of the central belt)

If furlough is not to extend past 2nd December this could force ScotGov into a premature (and possibly unnecessary) lockdown as to delay would have a severe financial impact on businesses.
If furlough is available past that point then the decisions on lockdown can focus more on the heath issues rather than economic issues

This is not simply a Scotland vs England issue - furlough only got extended when the south of England needed to lockdown - there was not extension for Wales, NI or, within England, the North West and other restricted areas
 
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scotrail158713

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The issue seems to hinge on the uncertaincy as to whether Scotland would have access to the furlough scheme beyond the end of the English lockdown V2 - The UK Government has not clarified either way as yet

The infection rates in Scotland are different from England and our rate seems to be leveling out faster at the moment. It may well be that we end up with Scotland-wide lockdown but that doesn't seem necessary just now (especially outside of the central belt)

If furlough is not to extend past 2nd December this could force ScotGov into a premature (and possibly unnecessary) lockdown as to delay would have a severe financial impact on businesses.
If furlough is available past that point then the decisions on lockdown can focus more on the heath issues rather than economic issues

This is not simply a Scotland vs England issue - furlough only got extended when the south of England needed to lockdown - there was not extension for Wales, NI or, within England, the North West and other restricted areas
Thanks for that explanation.
It backs up a bit of reading I did this afternoon, and watching the news this evening, where it appears I had misunderstood the situation a bit. Turns out my criticism of Ms Sturgeon isn’t quite as merited. :)
 

kez19

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  1. In the past 24 hours, 999 new positive cases were recorded - 378 in Greater Glasgow and Clyde; 207 in Lanarkshire and 128 in Lothian
  2. Nicola Sturgeon says that although prevalence of the virus is lower than in other parts of the UK, there can be no room for complacency
  3. She adds that she "can't rule out" putting some council areas into Level 4 restrictions
  4. Boris Johnson said furlough would be available "wherever it is needed". England enters a new lockdown on Thursday while Scotland is currently in lower levels of restrictions
  5. Nicola Sturgeon says she welcomes the PM's commitment, but she adds there has been no confirmation from the Treasury about the 80% furlough level
  6. Scotland is in its second day of the new five-level system, with each local authority assigned a tier
Also:


  • Ms Sturgeon says prevalence of Covid is lower than in other parts of the UK, and Scotland is in a relatively "strong position"
  • Ms Sturgeon cannot rule out moving some areas to level 4 for a period, while case numbers continue to rise, but no decision has been made yet
  • More than 190,000 children will be eligible for the Scottish Child Payment, which is available for low-income families from February 2021

This maybe a stupid question to ask but why don't the devolved governments/UK also include people that have came back negative? Unless I have missed something?

Regarding ruling out Level 4 restrictions, I wonder where?
 

221129

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Am I right in thinking that the travel restrictions are still.just guidance and advice? Ie not legally enforceable?
 

kez19

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Here is a story from my area with a twist (sadly), pub in question was helping community during time abiding by rules and now had to shut....


A Dundee pub is opening its doors three days a week to help in the battle against depression and loneliness.

Despite their own fears that they may be forced to close their doors permanently as a result of Covid-19 restrictions, Dexy’s on Arbroath Road is pulling out the stops to help their regulars keep social contact.

Today.... https://www.eveningtelegraph.co.uk/fp/dundee-pub-forced-to-close-after-offer-of-free-cuppas/

A pub that was offering free tea, coffee and biscuits to vulnerable people to help combat loneliness has been forced to close under the latest government restrictions.



Mr Murdoch said the pub had hoped they would be able to support the Stobswell community despite being unable to offer their normal service.

He said: “I genuinely didn’t think I was doing anything wrong. We just thought it would be nice to give people the chance to come out and get together for a little while over a tea and biscuits.

“There is a mental strain on everyone – young and old, rich or poor – there is no hiding place for anyone and we are all in the same boat.

We at Dexy’s hold no grudges with the police for the action they have been forced to take. We will obviously adhere to this and hopefully things will improve in the next few weeks.”

For the pub doing good for the community to shut seems to be OTT, it’s seems it wasn’t in the wrong, I can see a backfire brewing, yet nothing against any other pubs/cafes nothing different!


Read that Fife/Perth and Kinross and Angus moving from level 2 to 3!




Three Scottish council areas are to have tougher coronavirus rules imposed amid concern over an increase in cases.
Fife, Angus and Perth and Kinross will all be moved from level two to level three of Scotland's five-tier system.
It means pubs and restaurants in those areas will no longer be allowed to serve alcohol.
But up to six people from two households in Shetland, Orkney and the Western Isles will be able to meet inside their homes from Friday.
Ms Sturgeon said this was possible because cases in the islands were "very low and sporadic", but warned that people who have travelled from the mainland should avoid in-house mixing for a time to limit the risk of importing the virus.

Councillors David Alexander and David Ross, the co-Leaders of Fife Council, said the decision was not what they had been hoping for, but had been "based on the facts".
But Dean Banks, director and chef at The Haar restaurant in St Andrews, told BBC Radio Scotland's Drivetime programme that the ban on alcohol sales meant he might have to shut his business again.
The former Masterchef finalist said dozens of customers had already cancelled their bookings for the weekend, adding: "We're not sure what's going on. One week we've had alcohol sales, we've boosted revenue again, and taking that away again just rips us in half.
"People are cancelling their tables, they don't want to come or they want to leave it until later date to enjoy it with a glass of wine.
"How does Covid-19 know if someone's drinking a cup of coffee or a glass of wine? What is the difference there? I don't really understand what the difference is."


And boom goes the dynamite, COVID must be smart! .... Does it check in and out of a hotel? Last time I checked it got on a train from Glasgow to London and return and is still in a job!
 
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Scotrail12

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Rumours of Glasgow & Lanarkshire heading for tier 4 soon.

I'm at the point where I rather they made a decision and stuck with it - this limbo of "they may put in tougher restrictions here" has been going on for a good 2 months now.

And it's fine anyway since Edinburgh's infection rates are decreasing so I'd just go there for the day.
 

kez19

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Rumours of Glasgow & Lanarkshire heading for tier 4 soon.

I'm at the point where I rather they made a decision and stuck with it - this limbo of "they may put in tougher restrictions here" has been going on for a good 2 months now.

And it's fine anyway since Edinburgh's infection rates are decreasing so I'd just go there for the day.


Is it only those 2 areas in particular? Irony is wouldn’t Glasgow been in 4 a month or so back? She is late in making that announcement as it was spotted well before, mind in her own words it’s not political.


I don’t catch STV news last night but Tayside was mentioned but a guess she hasn’t got a real clue that you have Tayside Perth and Angus or unless she had referred to NHS Tayside which covers the 3 areas in general
 

Scotrail314209

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Is it only those 2 areas in particular? Irony is wouldn’t Glasgow been in 4 a month or so back? She is late in making that announcement as it was spotted well before, mind in her own words it’s not political.


I don’t catch STV news last night but Tayside was mentioned but a guess she hasn’t got a real clue that you have Tayside Perth and Angus or unless she had referred to NHS Tayside which covers the 3 areas in general

South Ayrshire is also under a bit of a watch for Tier 4. Which is ironic considering North and East Ayrshire are beginning to stabilise.
 

kez19

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South Ayrshire is also under a bit of a watch for Tier 4. Which is ironic considering North and East Ayrshire are beginning to stabilise.


Yet bring it when it’s too late! I’m surprised why now of all times to put those areas into level 4 than earlier (was she thinking it be gone by then or again trying not to be political?)

No offence to anyone living in Glasgow (have family on the outskirts of Glasgow) or surrounding areas but to me she put Aberdeen in lockdown for lower numbers compared to the rate of Glasgow over the past month or so to sit on her arse and watch - I think even if they do go level 4 this will come back and bite.

Rumours of Glasgow & Lanarkshire heading for tier 4 soon.

I'm at the point where I rather they made a decision and stuck with it - this limbo of "they may put in tougher restrictions here" has been going on for a good 2 months now.

And it's fine anyway since Edinburgh's infection rates are decreasing so I'd just go there for the day.


Would it be strange to say in next couple weeks things will probably stabilise in Scotland all over and yet to pull a stunt on some areas (possibly Glasgow by this thread to go level 4)? Surely it can’t be coincidental regarding furlough? (just opinion here of course)
 

Scotrail12

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Would it be strange to say in next couple weeks things will probably stabilise in Scotland all over and yet to pull a stunt on some areas (possibly Glasgow by this thread to go level 4)? Surely it can’t be coincidental regarding furlough? (just opinion here of course)
Probably to do with furlough however if true, she could have easily opted for Tier 4 in Glasgow last Tuesday. To be honest, I'm not even 100% sure that this will happen, we've heard it about half a dozen times already that she's "considering" greater restrictions for the Glasgow/Lanarkshire area and it never came to anything. I just think she says a lot of this stuff for attention and perhaps to scare the public into complying with her dictator like measures. I think she's well aware that compliance is low.

I've been thinking recently - why does a politician (who I was never old enough to vote for until last year) have a right to tell me whether or not I can live my life, leave my area, go to a restaurant, go to a gym, see my elderly grandparents etc? That's not the behaviour of a politician, that's the behaviour of a dictator.
 

kez19

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Probably to do with furlough however if true, she could have easily opted for Tier 4 in Glasgow last Tuesday. To be honest, I'm not even 100% sure that this will happen, we've heard it about half a dozen times already that she's "considering" greater restrictions for the Glasgow/Lanarkshire area and it never came to anything. I just think she says a lot of this stuff for attention and perhaps to scare the public into complying with her dictator like measures. I think she's well aware that compliance is low.

I've been thinking recently - why does a politician (who I was never old enough to vote for until last year) have a right to tell me whether or not I can live my life, leave my area, go to a restaurant, go to a gym, see my elderly grandparents etc? That's not the behaviour of a politician, that's the behaviour of a dictator.


Yet also to add to above paragraph was able to get a haircut whilst others didn’t.

I think your last paragraph sums it up, I know this is the Scottish side of things but even the UK governments itself is acting like this.

Politicians on a power trip at the moment they do realise that eventually the power will get cut off?
 

duncanp

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Yet also to add to above paragraph was able to get a haircut whilst others didn’t.

I think your last paragraph sums it up, I know this is the Scottish side of things but even the UK governments itself is acting like this.

Politicians on a power trip at the moment they do realise that eventually the power will get cut off?

The power will get cut off at the budget in March, when we finally have to start paying the bill for the lockdown, and also at the various elections that are going to take place in May, when the people can finally have their say on how they think the politicians have handled this crisis.
 

kez19

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The power will get cut off at the budget in March, when we finally have to start paying the bill for the lockdown, and also at the various elections that are going to take place in May, when the people can finally have their say on how they think the politicians have handled this crisis.


I would hope this would be her downfall but I can’t see it happening.

I thought money grew on trees and we had loads of them in Scotland! Oh wait... but you are right in terms of lockdown but of course it’s the public that’ll pay more the price than our MPs though.
 

duncanp

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I would hope this would be her downfall but I can’t see it happening.

I thought money grew on trees and we had loads of them in Scotland! Oh wait... but you are right in terms of lockdown but of course it’s the public that’ll pay more the price than our MPs though.
Yes I think in Nicola Sturgeon's case she is using the lockdown to boost support for Scottish independence, which is all she really cares about.
 

kez19

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Yes I think in Nicola Sturgeon's case she is using the lockdown to boost support for Scottish independence, which is all she really cares about.


Yet I thought the whole point of her broadcasts was not political but that’s a different story though.

Surprised why BBC Scotland just not let her broadcast couple times a week or better yet shove it on permanently over on the BBC Scotland channel, if COVID is so important then other issues need to be addressed too so maybe in new year the BBC grow a backbone and tell her to take a hike? (I know what I may have said might sound like contradicting myself) but she needs to get on with her day job than stand on a podium daily ranting and raving.
 

Scotrail12

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Definitely only to do with independence hence some of her decision making though I feel that public opinion is changing a bit regarding lockdowns so she should be careful.

As it stands, the last 8 months have been a taste of what an independent Scotland would look like, no thanks!
 

kez19

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Definitely only to do with independence hence some of her decision making though I feel that public opinion is changing a bit regarding lockdowns so she should be careful.

As it stands, the last 8 months have been a taste of what an independent Scotland would look like, no thanks!

In agreement here
 

nlogax

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Drove up to Glasgow from London today as I regularly do. No visible enforcement around the border, no issues at all. Haven't seen a single police vehicle.
 

duncanp

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Hope Nicola Sturgeon doesn't read this article, or no doubt she will think of something else to ban or shut down.


Gretna becomes wedding hotspot again as English couples work around lockdown​

Weddings are still permitted north of the border but all weddings in England have been suspended during the month-long lockdown

In the Eighteenth Century, it became known as the destination for star-crossed lovers to escape just two miles over the border and elope, taking advantage of the far more liberal marriage laws at the time in Scotland.
And thanks to Covid-19 restrictions, Gretna has once again become a destination for English couples to avoid tighter restrictions in their own country to tie the knot.
While England’s month-long lockdown means all weddings, with the exception of cases where a bride or groom is terminally ill, have been suspended, they are still permitted north of the border.
It means that more than two-and-a-half centuries since a law was passed in England forbidding those under 21 from marrying without their parents’ permission, and 43 years since it was repealed, Gretna has once again become a sanctuary for couples unable to get married closer to home.

Sam and Vanessa Maddison had originally planned to get married in August, but saw their plans ruined by the pandemic. They postponed until April next year, but were put off by the possibility of restrictions on guest numbers. Instead, they married in secret on Saturday after, as the famous saying goes, 'running away to Gretna Green'.
“We just didn’t think it was going to be possible to have a big wedding,” Mrs Maddison, a 28-year-old primary school teacher from County Durham, said. “So we decided six weeks ago to do it with just the two of us.
“If we’d gone ahead in April, and guests were capped at say 30 people, it would have just upset people who we wouldn’t have been able to invite. So we decided to just focus on us.
Sian and Andrew Ray from Spalding in Lincolnshire following their wedding

Sian and Andrew Ray from Spalding in Lincolnshire following their wedding CREDIT: Stuart Nicol
“When the lockdown got announced, we checked with the venue but they said because it was a pre-planned event we could still travel.
“We didn’t tell everyone we were going to do it, so we’ve just been telling everyone and not having to keep it a secret any more is really nice.”
Mrs Maddison said she knew about the history of Gretna, and that she and Sam, a 32-year-old HGV driver, settled on the location in part because of its romantic heritage.
“We liked Gretna because it had more meaning than if the two of us had just gone to the registry office,” she said.
Gretna is in Dumfries and Galloway, which is currently in level two of Scotland’s five-tier lockdown system, which operates on a scale of zero to four. It means weddings can go ahead with up to 18 guests, although social distancing rules have to be observed.
The town built up its reputation as the wedding capital of Scotland after an English law passed in 1754 stopped couples under 21 marrying without parental consent. In Scotland, however, girls from the age of 12 and boys aged 14 could marry.
Gretna was the first town couples would come to after crossing the border, with Gretna Green becoming famous for marriages.
In addition, anyone in Scotland could marry a couple ‘by declaration’, with enterprising blacksmiths becoming ‘anvil priests’ and carrying out ceremonies in exchange for a drink or a few guineas.

While the differences in marriage law between England and Scotland are now only minor, with marriage by declaration outlawed in 1940, the area has retained its allure, with in a normal year 5,000 couples tying the knot there every year. Wedding venues in Gretna have said that on a normal year, up to 80 per cent of couples are from England.
While in Scotland there is guidance against cross-border travel, as well as leaving council areas for non-essential reasons in areas in the upper two tiers of the local lockdown system, there is an exemption for travelling for marriages.
On Saturday, Becca Howells, an A&E doctor, and Tom Howells, an RAF engineer, from Stafford, said they had arranged their marriage after having trouble arranging it in England. Another couple, Sian and Andrew Ray, from Lincolnshire, also married in the town at the weekend.
A UK Department of Transport spokesman confirmed there was an exemption to the travel ban during lockdown in England for people going to weddings.
Although English people should normally stay at home, the regulations provide an exception if it is "reasonably necessary" to attend a marriage or civil partnership ceremony.
A spokesman for the Scottish Government said: "Our travel guidance still allows travel to/from England for a wedding."
 
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Hope Nicola Sturgeon doesn't read this article, or no doubt she will think of something else to ban or shut down.


Wedding ceremonies are allowed in all levels in Scotland (but no receptions in level 4)
Travel to weddings is allowed in all levels in Scotland (strictly speaking it's on the list of exclusions in the travel guidance)
Travel from the rest of the UK to weddings in allowed at all levels in Scotland

The linked article has a quote from ScotGov confirming that travel to/from England for weddings is within the guidance

I'm not sure what point you were trying to make - you seem to be trying to project ideas onto the Scottish Government without grounds
 

island

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If I may guess what duncanp was getting at, it is that the article would give Nicola ideas on other ways she could be seen to be taking action against COVID19, namely by banning those few things still permitted.
 

duncanp

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If I may guess what duncanp was getting at, it is that the article would give Nicola ideas on other ways she could be seen to be taking action against COVID19, namely by banning those few things still permitted.

What I was getting at is that Nicola Sturgeon has been very vocal about preventing unecessary travel between Scotland and England, and has made no secret of her wish to close the border.

Therefore it is all the more surprising that it is permitted for English couples to travel to Gretna, potentially from a COVID-19 hotspot, in order to get married, when weddings are banned in England until December 2nd.

I do get the impression that she takes pleasure in banning things (otherwise why would you allow pubs in Tier 3 to be open, but not serve alcohol) and I think it would suit her nationalist agenda to ban plague ridden Sassenachs from crossing the border just to get married. We can all remember the scenes from earlier in the year of people camped at the border draped in Saltires with banners saying the likes of "..English Go Home.."

However, I do know that such views are not representative of everyone in Scotland, based of my experience of 10 days holiday in Edinburgh at the end of August.
 

kez19

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In regards to Tier 3 with pubs, I mentioned an article in my area not selling alcohol but providing a community service (selling tea and biscuits instead) but was still shut down eventually. So how does this make sense?

I’ll say it again... where does it make sense and oh look restaurant’s, cafes and pubs can in general be open..



From government own listings: https://www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-protection-levels/pages/protection-level-3/


Restaurants, cafes, pubs and bars can open indoors and outdoors for the consumption of food and non alcoholic drinks. Alcoholic drinks cannot be served. Last entry is 17:00 and all venues must be closed and all customers off the premises by 18:00. The hospitality sector should follow: sector guidance for tourism and hospitality
The maximum number of people you can meet indoors and outdoors in a restaurant, café, pub or bar is 6 which can be from up to 2 separate households.

Children under the age of 12 from these households do not count towards the total number of people meeting.

Where an individual household includes more than 6 people they can continue to meet as a household in hospitality premises, although the venue may impose a smaller group limit.

Table service and the wearing of face-coverings (unless exempt) when not seated by all customers is mandatory in all hospitality venues. When meeting people from more than one other household, you should think beforehand about what size of table you will need to keep physically distanced between members of your group. The venue you are visiting should be able to advise you of booking options.


At a guess the tales we hear of pubs having to close etc seems to be that even Scottish Government regulations are basically contradictory.
 
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Red Onion

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In essence, functioning as a cafe? I don’t see why some degree of common sense can’t be applied. Yet we have certain premises up here flouting regulations and get nothing more than a 21 day television ban. The application of regulations doesn’t seem to make any sense.
 
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Scotrail314209

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One thing I do say.

The vast majority of Secondary School children have played a huge part in this. I've seen them board buses in huge groups, majority without a face covering. They walk about town centres and crowd shops in huge groups without masks, which sometimes makes it impossible to enforce distancing.

It's no surprise that Schools are spreading the virus given that Secondary School corridors are crowded at the best of times. I seriously think the Schools should be doing more to police this. Staggered days for different year groups? Not being allowed off campus at lunch? All these measures should be put in place.
 

Scotrail12

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Apparently Wee Nippy was basically indicating that Tier 4 is imminent in Glasgow/Lanarkshire.

Can I just travel to Ayrshire, Stirling, Fife, Edinburgh etc? My mental health won't take another lockdown and I do not want to waste another minute of my life in a lockdown which I have to pay back in future and which will not actually prevent deaths.
 

Scotrail314209

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Apparently Wee Nippy was basically indicating that Tier 4 is imminent in Glasgow/Lanarkshire.

Can I just travel to Ayrshire, Stirling, Fife, Edinburgh etc? My mental health won't take another lockdown.

Ayrshire is in a similar case. Apparently they are considering an Ayrshire wide lockdown to prevent people travelling between boundaries. Yet the cases seem to be more prevalent in South Ayrshire...
 

Scotrail12

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Ayrshire is in a similar case. Apparently they are considering an Ayrshire wide lockdown to prevent people travelling between boundaries. Yet the cases seem to be more prevalent in South Ayrshire...
Well, that's crap. I wonder if that one will go ahead tomorrow. Inverclyde, Argyll and Bute are hopefully still options.
 

kez19

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Apparently Wee Nippy was basically indicating that Tier 4 is imminent in Glasgow/Lanarkshire.

Can I just travel to Ayrshire, Stirling, Fife, Edinburgh etc? My mental health won't take another lockdown.

I thought areas you listed (excluding Fife) was going to 4?

I agree regarding lockdown(s) I’m feeling on the same boat


I’m guessing just as well I didn’t book my hotel in Glasgow next week!

Regardless of this when I’m away locally I rather still be supporting the areas... ie Glasgow (instead of Newcastle) would have got my custom during stay (last time wasn’t exactly much open either)
 
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