New Scottish COVID-19 Restrictions 07/10/2020

[scotrail158713]

Glad to see that the circuit breaker lockdown was successful then!

There’s been no circuit breaker/fire breaker/whatever else you want to call it lockdown up here

 

[Andyh82]

I wonder if she will get slammed for leaving it too late, what with the non essential shops only opening a fortnight before Christmas, much later than those in England

 

[greyman42]

I wonder if she will get slammed for leaving it too late, what with the non essential shops only opening a fortnight before Christmas, much later than those in England

The only criticism she will take any notice of will be at the ballot box.

 

[yorkie]

With Covid an individual's decisions can have serious consequences for others (up to causing death) even when there is no intent to do so. An individual can choose to accept a certain amount of risk but you can't make that decision for others or force yours onto them

Is this not the case with any virus, including 'flu?

I fail to understand your logic, which appears to be fundamentally flawed.

I wonder if she will get slammed for leaving it too late, what with the non essential shops only opening a fortnight before Christmas, much later than those in England

Pro-lockdown people will certainly say that; when lockdowns don't work they tend to give the "it was too late" excuse. Problem is, the only way lockdowns "work" from a suppression point of view is to make them early and never lift them, which is not at all feasible!

 

[Smidster]

The First Minister's name is Nicola Sturgeon, not "wee nippy". Apart from the fact that there may be some readers who might not know who you're talking about, using these silly wee names is rather juvenile, don't you think?

It's possible to have a discussion about these restrictions without resorting to the usual childish behaviour.

I completely agree.

The minute you start throwing around this level of name calling you lose any credibility that you may have and your arguments lose any weight (ditto calling people "dictators" or referring to masks as "face nappies"

Absolutely no problem at all in hating the action, and I personally disagree with the level of restrictions, but manners and respect cost nothing and improve your arguments

 

[route101]

How much do you think they will fine people who break the new law of travelling?

Doubt there will be any enforcement.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

How much do you think they will fine people who break the new law of travelling?

How much enforcement has their been re face coverings, in-house multi-household bans and other similar restrictions over the past few months?

There's your answer.

 

[Ian Cunningham]

Is this not the case with any virus, including 'flu?

I fail to understand your logic, which appears to be fundamentally flawed.

True - that is the case with any virus however there are significant differences:

We have mitigation in place by way of vaccine for flu (approx 15million people annually in the UK) we don't yet for Covid
Different scale of problem: ONS reports 394 influenza and 48,168 Covid deaths in England and Wales between 1st January and 31st August 2020
Flu has a 1-4 day incubation period (typically 2 days) Covid has a 1-11 day incubation (typically 5-6 days) so the period of potential asymptomatic transfer is significantly longer.

 

[Journeyman]

Absolutely furious about West Lothian's inclusion in the Level 4 area. Our infection rate is only about half that in Glasgow. My wife is a driving instructor, and now can't work again. I'm also pretty negatively affected, and I get no government assistance.

I wasn't going to vote SNP anyway, but I won't forget this.

 

[Carlisle]

Nichola Sturgeon closed all central belt pubs for 2 weeks but it’ll be well over 2 months at the earliest before they can actually re open, so a more honest & upfront approach would’ve been preferable

 

[Logan Carroll]

The First Minister's name is Nicola Sturgeon, not "wee nippy". Apart from the fact that there may be some readers who might not know who you're talking about, using these silly wee names is rather juvenile, don't you think?

It's possible to have a discussion about these restrictions without resorting to the usual childish behaviour.

The messiah complex around Sturgeon and by extension the SNP is really concerning.

People can call politicians whatever they please.

 

[GusB]

That's totally cool but I don't believe she deserves that respect with everything she's done.

I didn't see anyone condemning Ruth Davidson after she more or less agreed with the FM's position. Is Davidson in the wrong too, or does she get away with it because she doesn't represent a party which advocates independence? There's too much anti-SNP bias in this thread for other reasons, and it really has no place here. I honestly don't think any of the political leaders of any of the UK nations can come out and say that they're handling things better.

I'm sure many could come up with much worse. Like Boris and his cronies down here, she is ruining lives with this rudderless handling of the situation whilst engaging in back and forth one-upmanship with Westminster.

If countless media outlets can quite happily call her Nippy then people directly being affected by her decisions shouldn't be jumped on by multiple staff for using a silly name.

This idea of one-upmanship is a load of tripe. Health is a devolved matter. If that means that things are done in Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland that are different from the rest of the UK, so be it. That's what devolution is all about. If you, presumably as someone living in England, are unhappy about it, do something productive towards getting your own devolved settlement.

For the record:

• I don't, and haven't agreed with Sturgeon's position on any of the restrictions that have been imposed upon us in the last few months. When the initial lockdown came in it was awful, but at the time I agreed that it was the best action to take in order for us to take stock and have a bit of a think about where this was all going.
• I agree with the tier system to an extent. It means I, living in a Level 1 area, can still go to the pub and have a reasonably normal life. I agree that it isn't 100% back to normal, but it's better than nothing. Why should I be completely locked down because some people in another part of the country can't behave themselves? This is a point that Sturgeon addressed today in Holyrood. I don't agree with what is and isn't allowed within those tiers; for example, I think tier 0 should be absolute normality without restrictions

It depresses me that so many threads on the forum relating to Scotland end up with "SNP BAAAAD". It just puts peoples' backs up and stifles proper discussion.

 

[Scotrail12]

I didn't see anyone condemning Ruth Davidson after she more or less agreed with the FM's position. Is Davidson in the wrong too, or does she get away with it because she doesn't represent a party which advocates independence? There's too much anti-SNP bias in this thread for other reasons, and it really has no place here. I honestly don't think any of the political leaders of any of the UK nations can come out and say that they're handling things better.

I don't follow what Ruth Davidson says as she is frankly no longer relevant. My anger is only directed towards the person who makes these decisions which impact my life and that person leads the SNP. That's not to say I agree with what other leaders are doing far from it, but my main criticisms are of course going to be directed to the SNP leader because she runs the country and has made these decisions.

 

[Journeyman]

Well, it's easy to stick up for Sturgeon in a tier 1 area, isn't it? It's considerably harder in a tier 4, where it isn't a case of not being able to go to the pub - we can't actually earn a living.

 

[GusB]

Well, it's easy to stick up for Sturgeon in a tier 1 area, isn't it? It's considerably harder in a tier 4, where it isn't a case of not being able to go to the pub - we can't actually earn a living.

Well, perhaps if people had stuck to the guidelines in the first place we wouldn't be here now.

 

[big_rig]

Well, perhaps if people had stuck to the guidelines in the first place we wouldn't be here now.

Would people sticking to the guidelines have prevented the change in seasons? I wish that was the case as I was really enjoying the warmth of summer!

 

[Ian Cunningham]

How much do you think they will fine people who break the new law of travelling?

From press reports it's a £60 FPN for first offence doubling on subsequent offences up to a maximum of £960.
Cases can also be taken to court and fines imposed there - I assume these can be higher but I don't have a source for that

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Well, perhaps if people had stuck to the guidelines in the first place we wouldn't be here now.

Perhaps if stricter restrictions were put in place in Glasgow and surrounding areas back in September (more than just household mixing), and students didn't disperse all over the country, we might not be in the same position as we are right now too.

But will the Government admit to that perhaps being an issue?

 

[Scotrail12]

Please stop with this about people not obeying the guidelines - it's total wishy washy claptrap peddled out by anyone trying to find a reason to lockdown. The majority of people have been obeying and have made significant sacrifices so to say that is a total insult. And as it's winter, cases would have gone up anyway, just like with flu & cold. I rarely saw anyone breaking rules in the last 4 months.

And also consider where transmission can occur - mostly likely in schools and universities. But hey, just blame the people when you actually know nothing about whether they stuck to the rules.

 

[Journeyman]

Well, perhaps if people had stuck to the guidelines in the first place we wouldn't be here now.

I've stuck to the rules, and I've still caught it. Shut the schools, then we'll talk.

The sacrifices I'm being asked to make are too much. I've lost tens of thousands in income, and I've had diddly-squat from the government, so you'll excuse me if I'm not feeling particularly well-disposed towards politicians right now.

 

[sheff1]

Well, perhaps if people had stuck to the guidelines in the first place we wouldn't be here now.

Really ? Guidelines which in many cases have no evidence behind them.

Politicians must be very happy to see their divide and rule tactics working so well.

 

[Cowley]

I think as of this point it’s time to reign it in a bit.
Different opinions and all that...
Let’s please not jump on each other because we disagree, because at the end of the day we all need to find some kind of path through all of this.
Keep it respectful please.

 

[Strathclyder]

I have been avoiding this sub-fourm since March for one major reason: I was this close to losing my uncle to this wretched virus back in the early stages of the first lockdown (another of my uncles also had it and was nearly hospitalized; he has thankfully made a full recovery). Admittedly, he suffers from severe asthma (far worse than both me and my parents), but did that make it any easier to hear? Of course it didn't, I'd be foolish to think otherwise. Ventilators, tubes up the nose, the whole bloody lot. Early on, we really did think we were gonna lose him, but he very slowly clawed his way back from the edge. Nearly 2 months he was in the hospital (late March to early May). Two agonizing months, especially for his wife (my aunt) and daughter (my cousin). While he has made a remarkable recovery considering his condition back in March/April, he has suffered complications in the months since being discharged, one requiring a second stint in the hospital; this 2nd one thankfully only lasting a day or two. Given the lasting damage the virus undoubtedly did to his body, I'd honestly be surprised if he ever works again. All that said, I and my family are eternally grateful to the NHS staff for looking after him and providing him with the best care possible given the immense pressure they were under.

Whether you agree with the government's handling of this crisis or whether you vehemently oppose it (both are perfectly valid opinions to hold, as long as you express said opinions respectfully. Resorting to personal, juvenile attacks serves only to undercut and debase your otherwise valid arguments; another reason I've steered clear of this sub-forum up until now as I would have undoubtedly been dragged into such debates), there are those among us who have had loved ones knocked flat on their backs by this virus for weeks/months at a time, or worse. Yes, my uncle was a extreme case and my family and I were extremely lucky not to lose him in light of that (it's not like I need to be told that), but it only reinforces just what it can do to you. I implore that you keep that in mind when debating the government's efforts to contain this virus, no matter what side of the aisle you land on. I know it goes without saying, but I feel a reminder is necessary. And also keep in mind, it could be far, far, far worse; one only has to take a quick glance at the US to realize that.

This may be my only post in this sub-fourm (as I prefer not to be depressed/enraged/have my hopes raised then shattered on a daily basis), so I'll close it out with this: look after yourself as best you can. In these extremely trying times, that's the very least we can do. If not for yourself, but for your familes, friends and colleagues.

Strathclyder out.

 

[nlogax]

This may be my only post in this sub-fourm (as I prefer not to be depressed/enraged/have my hopes raised then shattered on a daily basis), so I'll close it out with this: look after yourself as best you can. In these extremely trying times, that's the very least we can do. If not for yourself, but for your familes, friends and colleagues.

Thank you @Strathclyder . One of the more sane and thoughtful posts in this subforum. When the myriad rules and regulations and the inherent disagreements and arguments about them rage on in the background it shouldn't be forgotten that there's still a human cost to this disease. It's good to know your uncle is on a road to what will in time - hopefully - be a decent recovery. Best wishes to you and yours.

 

[Logan Carroll]

I have been avoiding this sub-fourm since March for one major reason: I was this close to losing my uncle to this wretched virus back in the early stages of the first lockdown (another of my uncles also had it and was nearly hospitalized; he has thankfully made a full recovery). Admittedly, he suffers from severe asthma (far worse than both me and my parents), but did that make it any easier to hear? Of course it didn't, I'd be foolish to think otherwise. Ventilators, tubes up the nose, the whole bloody lot. Early on, we really did think we were gonna lose him, but he very slowly clawed his way back from the edge. Nearly 2 months he was in the hospital (late March to early May). Two agonizing months, especially for his wife (my aunt) and daughter (my cousin). While he has made a remarkable recovery considering his condition back in March/April, he has suffered complications in the months since being discharged, one requiring a second stint in the hospital; this 2nd one thankfully only lasting a day or two. Given the lasting damage the virus undoubtedly did to his body, I'd honestly be surprised if he ever works again. All that said, I and my family are eternally grateful to the NHS staff for looking after him and providing him with the best care possible given the immense pressure they were under.

Whether you agree with the government's handling of this crisis or whether you vehemently oppose it (both are perfectly valid opinions to hold, as long as you express said opinions respectfully. Resorting to personal, juvenile attacks serves only to undercut and debase your otherwise valid arguments; another reason I've steered clear of this sub-forum up until now as I would have undoubtedly been dragged into such debates), there are those among us who have had loved ones knocked flat on their backs by this virus for weeks/months at a time, or worse. Yes, my uncle was a extreme case and my family and I were extremely lucky not to lose him in light of that (it's not like I need to be told that), but it only reinforces just what it can do to you. I implore that you keep that in mind when debating the government's efforts to contain this virus, no matter what side of the aisle you land on. I know it goes without saying, but I feel a reminder is necessary. And also keep in mind, it could be far, far, far worse; one only has to take a quick glance at the US to realize that.

This may be my only post in this sub-fourm (as I prefer not to be depressed/enraged/have my hopes raised then shattered on a daily basis), so I'll close it out with this: look after yourself as best you can. In these extremely trying times, that's the very least we can do. If not for yourself, but for your familes, friends and colleagues.

Strathclyder out.

People are scared.

They are scared of their elderly and vulnerable relatives and friends

They are scared of losing their job and not being able to pay off their mortgage

They are scared of not being able to afford what their kids want for Christmas.

And most of all they don’t want to be trapped in their houses for weeks on end due to vague reasons given by career politicians.

The COVID crisis has been bizarre blend of panic and complacency mostly due to both its low death rate and the uncertainty about it in the start (not helped by the CCP using any chance to downplay it to the point of murdering the man who leaked it initially.)

 

[Butts]

I suspect Falkirk will be in much the same boat - other than the Kincardine Bridge, it's entirely surrounded by areas in Tier 4 (Stirling, West Lothian, and North Lanarkshire).

Expecting an invasion of "heathens" from Stirling at any time now for Christmas Shopping.

Advise them to continue on to Edinburgh on the X38 or Train.

Falkirk apart from The Central Retail Park is somewhat akin to Albania under Hoxha with regard to shopping.

Glad we swerved the cut for level 4 though

 

[HSTEd]

Falkirk apart from The Central Retail Park is somewhat akin to Albania under Hoxha with regard to shopping.

Well the way this year is going, that shopping is perfect.

Bunkers for all!

 

[Scotrail314209]

One thing I worry about is actually enforcing the travel restrictions. During the first lockdown I never seen bus drivers or police officers banning large groups of youths from travelling who aren’t distancing and not wearing masks. The only driver I’ve came across that actually enforces face masks was on a McGills bus. Even then the teenagers subsequently took them off.

 

[Butts]

One thing I worry about is actually enforcing the travel restrictions. During the first lockdown I never seen bus drivers or police officers banning large groups of youths from travelling who aren’t distancing and not wearing masks. The only driver I’ve came across that actually enforces face masks was on a McGills bus. Even then the teenagers subsequently took them off.

They won't be enforced just as they were not during the original lockdown or any time since.

I have been travelling to Edinburgh from Falkirk since the outset in various modes of transport and was never once asked for my Key Worker credentials. The same applied travelling to other areas of Scotland and indeed England.

It's all talk and no action, as on a practical level it's unenforceable without draconian measures/penalties.

 

[Journeyman]

They won't be enforced just as they were not during the original lockdown or any time since.

I have been travelling to Edinburgh from Falkirk since the outset in various modes of transport and was never once asked for my Key Worker credentials. The same applied travelling to other areas of Scotland and indeed England.

It's all talk and no action, as on a practical level it's unenforceable without draconian measures/penalties.

It's also completely arbitrary and ridiculous, which is what makes me so angry. I live in West Lothian, at the Edinburgh end of Winchburgh to be precise, and the West Lothian/City of Edinburgh boundary is about half a mile away. It's now illegal for me to cross it, and people the other side of it have considerably more freedom than I do, including access to Edinburgh and non-essential retail. Even worse, my wife is a driving instructor who mostly works in Edinburgh. Although travel for work you can't do from home is allowed, driving instruction is banned in level 4 areas, and she's not allowed to travel to level 3 to work either. And...guess what...she's only just resumed work after a month off with COVID.

I'm absolutely furious. We're the only people in Winchburgh who have had COVID in months, and I don't know a single other local that's had it, yet we're being treated far worse than people only a few minutes' walk away.

I'd have felt far better about this if the whole of Scotland, or even the Central Belt, was treated the same, but no. And why the hell is Falkirk a level 3 island surrounded by level 4?