Y Ddraig Coch
Established Member
- Joined
- 1 Nov 2013
- Messages
- 1,306
Via Northwich, running semi-fast.
Uggh
Via Northwich, running semi-fast.
Then you've caused another problem at Stockport.Via Northwich, running semi-fast.
Uggh
You don't see Metrolink running 2tph from Bury to each of East Didsbury, Ashton, Eccles, Mediacity and Manchester Airport. With a sufficiently frequent and reliable service, changing trains needn't be a great burden.
Is it me reading option A wrong or is it suggesting that the Scotland-Manchester service would only run off peak? If so that is a retrograde step.
Thanks. Having re-read the diagram my only explanation for my ineptitude is that it was showing a purple line for the peak Manchester-Scotland.If it is sufficiently frequent and reliable. If there's going to be 4tph between Bolton and/or Salford Crescent and Picc that will work fine as it's a quick change, but if it's lower than that (e.g. only the Blackpool-Ringway services call) it's key to make those connections actually work - a 29 minute wait, say, would not be good enough.
I like the idea of simple half-hourly services, but Takt has two parts, and we need both of them. Just simplifying the services without making the connections work will be unpopular - and explains why people do push for that "hourly from everywhere to everywhere" thing.
Yes. Off-peak it would run via Bolton, peak it would run via Parkside. I think that is to allow for another peak extra from the Bolton direction. I think this messiness is a downside of Option 1.
Wouldn’t it better if one of the Leeds to Chester trains was extended to the north Wales coast.Like the report says - there's no perfect solution to this. Although in this case, partial compensation seems be offered in Chester-Victoria-Leeds becoming half-hourly instead.
The Options presented at least highlight the key choices and trade-offs.
In my opinion that would make sense to avoid service duplication but running longer trains, but I think politically it might be difficult with the North Wales coast services being specified by the Welsh assembly and the Leeds-Manchester route services being specified by the UK government.Wouldn’t it better if one of the Leeds to Chester trains was extended to the north Wales coast.
Don’t know which TOC would operate it though!
Downside would be no North Wales trains to Piccadilly though!
In Timetable Option A, the following changes are made:
• The 1 train per hour to the Airport and Crewe begins at Piccadilly (rather than Liverpool), calling all stations to Alderley Edge.
• The 1 train per hour to Alderley Edge begins at Piccadilly (rather than Southport).
• The Blackpool to Hazel Grove service increases to 2 trains per hour.
• The 2 trains per hour to Buxton runs during peak periods only, with 1 train per hour in the off-peak
In Timetable Option B, the following changes are made:
• The 1 train per hour to the Airport and Crewe begin at Piccadilly (rather than Liverpool).
• Alderley Edge services become 2 trains per hour all day and begin at Blackpool (rather than Southport).
• 1 train per hour from Piccadilly to Crewe runs via Styal, rather than via Stockport (but not calling at the Airport).
• 2 trains per hour continue to run to Buxton, but trains to Hazel Grove only run in the peaks only, provided by a Hazel Grove to Wigan North Western service.
• The airport line gains a regular pattern all stations local service.
In Timetable Option C, the following changes are made:
• Stopping trains to the Airport and Crewe run at 30-minute intervals and begin at Piccadilly (rather than Liverpool), but both diverted to run via the Airport, giving a regular pattern of calls along the Airport line.
• Alderley Edge services become 2 trains per hour all day and begin at Piccadilly (rather than Southport).
• 2 trains per hour run to Buxton at 30 minute intervals, but trains to Hazel Grove only run in the peaks only, provided by a Hazel Grove to Wigan North Western service.
• A second train per hour is provided on the Mid-Cheshire line, running from North Wales to Piccadilly and calling at Northwich, Knutsford, Altrincham and Stockport.
This Southport to Manchester University is s bit of a redherring. First, the concentration of students at the universities are already in Manchester. Second, Southport as a town doesn’t have a greater concentration of students who attend those universities any more than any other town. What Manchester needs more than anything else is a reliable way to get down Oxford Road from any point in the city centre, which should be a tramline. Other than that, use one of the very frequent bus services from Piccadilly Gardens.
If the map is correctly labelled, it shows Liverpool to Cleethorpes being transferred to Northern in Options B and C. Interesting...
Wouldn’t it better if one of the Leeds to Chester trains was extended to the north Wales coast.
Don’t know which TOC would operate it though!
Option "C" seems to be by far the most logical and most robust, and generally to deliver the most regular service patterns.
One thing—minor in the grand scheme but shewing a particular attitude—I really dislike in "A" and "B" is the willingness to muck around with and degrade a supposedly inter-city service to keep the short-distance travellers happy. In "A" you suddenly lose the "Takt" of the Scotland services in the peak hours, and in "B" it's fine apparently to stick in not only a full Bolton stop but also decelerate with a Chorley stop those already not-very-fast inter-city trains. What's wrong with getting the commuter capacity with longer commuter trains, as Bletchleyite has suggested, rather than by degrading an IC service?
But whichever way you look at it, it does make the Ordsall Chord look like rather a £90 million (or whatever it was) white elephant, doesn't it?
Here what you say, but Liverpool to Edinburgh runs via the Calder Valley, which is a longer journey than Bangor(?) to Leeds.Personally, I'd suggest not reading too much into the implied operators off the map. It's the origin-destinations and the service concepts that are important.
I guess there's no reason why you couldn't; but you wouldn't want to propose that (as a "promise") in this report as it is
a) Not really the point of the report; this is just showing some concepts
b) Probably also not yet tested to see whether it works or not; having a North Wales service then get tied up in the Calder Valley doesn't strike me as a recipe for good performance
Here what you say, but Liverpool to Edinburgh runs via the Calder Valley, which is a longer journey than Bangor(?) to Leeds.
My bad!Erm, no it doesn't, it runs via North TPE?
It should also be binned off north of Newcastle as it's a waste of 802s. I suspect this will indeed happen.
TPE only serve the Calder Valley route as a diversion and never in service. I suppose to mitigate the time penalty for Leeds to North Wales passengers you could extend the via Dewsbury train to North Wales instead of one of the via Bradfords.
This Southport to Manchester University is s bit of a redherring.
How are North Wales trains getting back to Wales in C ?? Is it via Stockport, Northwich etc, basically the long way round??
Option "C" seems to be by far the most logical and most robust, and generally to deliver the most regular service patterns.
One thing—minor in the grand scheme but shewing a particular attitude—I really dislike in "A" and "B" is the willingness to muck around with and degrade a supposedly inter-city service to keep the short-distance travellers happy. In "A" you suddenly lose the "Takt" of the Scotland services in the peak hours, and in "B" it's fine apparently to stick in not only a full Bolton stop but also decelerate with a Chorley stop those already not-very-fast inter-city trains. What's wrong with getting the commuter capacity with longer commuter trains, as Bletchleyite has suggested, rather than by degrading an IC service?
But whichever way you look at it, it does make the Ordsall Chord look like rather a £90 million (or whatever it was) white elephant, doesn't it?
Blackburn – Clitheroe line:
• Increased journey times to Manchester via Bolton due to calls at Moses Gate, Farnworth and Kearsley (DMU stoppers on electrified line!)
Altogether that is going to add up to a lot of aggrieved users kicking off!
Surely something akin to what's been running last year should be fine ! I've been through Castlefield several times and had very few issues.
Class 769s.....?
319s are probably slower off the mark than a modern DMU, they really are quite leisurely and underpowered. But in terms of not running DMUs under the wires I agree. Same for Buxton.
Or, heaven forbid, new build bi-modes for Northern.