158’s with no air conditioning

[superkev]

Northern Rail (the last franchise) replaced the aircon on all their 158s with Liebherr equipment a few years ago.

It would be interesting for someone in the know could enlighten us as to what makes of air con are associated with which TOC's.
And, we should spare a thought for the crews who have to put up with such conditions. Shows TOC's treat there own worse even worse than there passengers. Northern in particular who seem to regard there passengers as compressible have done nothing to improve the cab environment during there unit refreshes
K

 

[PHILIPE]

From GWR Twitter messages seems the problem has manifested itself on the new IETs now.

 

[scotraildriver]

Oh dear. Our new Hitachi 385's have the same system and with no opening windows in the cab an aircon fault will be a failure.

 

[D2007wsm]

Northern Rail (the last franchise) replaced the aircon on all their 158s with Liebherr equipment a few years ago.

GWR 158s have a Liebherr system as well. This is panel with green or red lights in the vestibules near the cab to indicate whether or not it is functioning correctly.

Most people see aircon as a tool to cool the air and only used a couple of weeks a year. It is also useful at other times to cool down the train, but also to dehumidify the train.

It's the same as when the heating doesn't work in the winter, it should be sorted so the heating and aircon works all the time as you don't know when it'll be needed.

Buses and coaches are just as bad for this.

 

[Parallel]

GWR 158s have a Liebherr system as well. This is panel with green or red lights in the vestibules near the cab to indicate whether or not it is functioning correctly.

I’m under the impression that only some GWR units are fitted with this air conditioning system. Carriage C in the hybrid units rings a bell. Not sure of the system used in the other carriages but pretty sure it the older of the two systems. People have said on here before that the Liebherr system is more reliable but on GWR from my own observations, they both seem to be about as reliable as each other. (Liebherr maybe slightly more reliable)

 

[Kite159]

I've even seen a couple 159s running around in the past week with the windows open in one coach (the other coaches have been their usual cool)

 

[D2007wsm]

I’m under the impression that only some GWR units are fitted with this air conditioning system. Carriage C in the hybrid units rings a bell. Not sure of the system used in the other carriages but pretty sure it the older of the two systems. People have said on here before that the Liebherr system is more reliable but on GWR from my own observations, they both seem to be about as reliable as each other. (Liebherr maybe slightly more reliable)

I was on a 2 car GWR 158 which had been refurbished and that had the Liebherr system fitted the week before last and it had a red light on saying it was f**kd.

 

[cjmillsnun]

Scotrail are currently working with Knorr Bremse rail services to come up with a "once and for all" solution to the 158 air con. We'll see!

All they need to do is get in contact with whomever did the job on SWR's fleet of 158/9s (Leibherr?) They tend to work reasonably well.

 

[Mag_seven]

From GWR Twitter messages seems the problem has manifested itself on the new IETs now.

I was on a couple of IET's today and the AC was working perfectly.

 

[Mugby]

I remember when the 158s were new, it was claimed at the time that the air-con equipment was better than that fitted in HSTs!

 

[alangla]

Last Saturday I was a passenger on a 333, 170, 158 and 155. All Northern.
The 333 and 170 were both very poor to travel in and I suspect their air conditioning wasn't working. I don't believe either have the option of opening windows.

Genuinely surprised at this - I've always found Scotrail Turbostar aircon to be pretty reliable. Surely it's not gone downhill already? The Turbostar doesn't, as far as I know, cross-feed, so a dead engine or parking with the engines stopped, will see it get pretty hot pretty quickly.

 

[M7R]

The EMT 158 I came back on from Nottingham to Attenborough at lunch time with my little lad had all the windows open as it pulled in, speaking to the guard he said it was failed as had a few others. Told him i felt sorry for him at least on a 156 or 153 you can open every window. (The 153 I was on on Sunday had the heater under my seat blasting out hot air to help keep the interior warm whch was nice, prepared me and lad for the hot day at the Ecclesboune classic bus day lol)

 

[superkev]

I remember when the 158s were new, it was claimed at the time that the air-con equipment was better than that fitted in HSTs!

I seem to remember the original system was from a long gone UK company called Temperature Ltd. Sadly my own experience with industrial air conditioning was if you wanted it to work and continue working always buy Japanese.
K

 

[scotraildriver]

Genuinely surprised at this - I've always found Scotrail Turbostar aircon to be pretty reliable. Surely it's not gone downhill already? The Turbostar doesn't, as far as I know, cross-feed, so a dead engine or parking with the engines stopped, will see it get pretty hot pretty quickly.

The later series turbostars like the ones going to Nortbern do cross feed.

 

[Cardiff123]

Judging by the onslaught of mesages that TfW Rail twitter have been bombarded with this weekend from angry passengers stuck in sweltering trains "with no air con and no windows that open", I assume that when the 158s have gone in for their internal refurbs, the defective air con has been left untouched?
Ok, a lot has changed since the original W&B contract was awarded to Keolis Amey 3 years ago, but I'm pretty sure I remember when the contract was awarded that KA promised to "fix" the air con in the 158s. Has that ambition now been abandoned?
Are the 175s having air con issues as well?

It's not great when the rail industry is advertising how "safe" and well ventilated even air conditioned trains are, and then TfW passengers find themselves stuck in sealed, sweltering, airless carriages.

 

[sd0733]

Judging by the onslaught of mesages that TfW Rail twitter have been bombarded with this weekend from angry passengers stuck in sweltering trains "with no air con and no windows that open", I assume that when the 158s have gone in for their internal refurbs, the defective air con has been left untouched?
Ok, a lot has changed since the original W&B contract was awarded to Keolis Amey 3 years ago, but I'm pretty sure I remember when the contract was awarded that KA promised to "fix" the air con in the 158s. Has that ambition now been abandoned?
Are the 175s having air con issues as well?

It's not great when the rail industry is advertising how "safe" and well ventilated even air conditioned trains are, and then TfW passengers find themselves stuck in sealed, sweltering, airless carriages.

The 175 aircon has been dismal the last few days. The 158s have got some windows to open so do get a bit of a breeze. The 175s have been like mobile ovens.
The 158 air-con is still poor but it was overhauled last winter.

 

[wobman]

Judging by the onslaught of mesages that TfW Rail twitter have been bombarded with this weekend from angry passengers stuck in sweltering trains "with no air con and no windows that open", I assume that when the 158s have gone in for their internal refurbs, the defective air con has been left untouched?
Ok, a lot has changed since the original W&B contract was awarded to Keolis Amey 3 years ago, but I'm pretty sure I remember when the contract was awarded that KA promised to "fix" the air con in the 158s. Has that ambition now been abandoned?
Are the 175s having air con issues as well?

It's not great when the rail industry is advertising how "safe" and well ventilated even air conditioned trains are, and then TfW passengers find themselves stuck in sealed, sweltering, airless carriages.

Nothing changes happens every summer, let's hope the 197's are better, even though they have a lot of haters before they are even in service.

The 158's & 175's just can't handle any extreme heat, the 150's just recirculate the outside hot air very noisily as do the dreaded 153's. From a traincrew perspective there's not a lot you can do with the TFW units, Alstom removed the air con reset in the air con unit which was a shame.

Bring on the 197's and hope next summer is a better experience for the passengers.

 

[PHILIPE]

The Air-Con on 158s hasn't functioned correctly for 32 years (when they were built) but some TOCs are better than others by using different systems. I have seen it suggested that door opening can have an effect due to a change in the air circulation and no doubt somebody may be able to confirm this.

 

[Parallel]

The air conditioning on the GWR 166s is just as dire as their 158s. That said, at least all have windows that can be opened if the carriages become too warm.

I’ve only had the misfortune of being on a 175 with failed aircon once, and that was very uncomfortable as they have no windows that can be opened (other than on the crew doors)

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Air-Con on 158s hasn't functioned correctly for 32 years (when they were built) but some TOCs are better than others by using different systems. I have seen it suggested that door opening can have an effect due to a change in the air circulation and no doubt somebody may be able to confirm this.

It was fine when they were built, they were like mobile fridges in summer. It went wrong when they had to switch to less effective non CFC refrigerants for which it wasn't designed.

175s are more concerning as they worked fine for years - poor maintenance?

 

[skyhigh]

It was fine when they were built, they were like mobile fridges in summer. It went wrong when they had to switch to less effective non CFC refrigerants for which it wasn't designed.

175s are more concerning as they worked fine for years - poor maintenance?

The other issue is long pipe runs on 158s - with the continual body flex over time the pipework is a complete nightmare for leaks.

 

[LowLevel]

It was fine when they were built, they were like mobile fridges in summer. It went wrong when they had to switch to less effective non CFC refrigerants for which it wasn't designed.

175s are more concerning as they worked fine for years - poor maintenance?

A common misconception - the less than capable alternator doesn't help and as far as I know they were basically crap from day one.

 

[Bletchleyite]

A common misconception - the less than capable alternator doesn't help and as far as I know they were basically crap from day one.

I used them quite a lot in the mid 90s and I definitely recall it being pretty good, as I say it was like stepping aboard a fridge.

Back then it was Mk2s and Mk3s where it was really rubbish and unreliable.

 

[GALLANTON]

I've only ever travelled on one 158 where the Air-Con was working properly but that was back in 2014 during the Commonwealth Games. It was x2 2 car sets together, one was like an oven and the other was like the arctic circle. The 158s are awful units regardless and I can't wait to see the back of them.

 

[RPI]

Seen plenty of 158's around Exeter with windows open today, had a 166 yesterday where the two end vehicles aircon had packed up (wasn't too bad as a lot of windows can open) but the middle coach was like a fridge.

 

[bramling]

I used them quite a lot in the mid 90s and I definitely recall it being pretty good, as I say it was like stepping aboard a fridge.

Back then it was Mk2s and Mk3s where it was really rubbish and unreliable.

Every summer this comes up with 158s. I'll never know why they haven't simply ditched the air conditioning and installed extra opening windows.

 

[skyhigh]

Every summer this comes up with 158s. I'll never know why they haven't simply ditched the air conditioning and installed extra opening windows.

Glad it's not just me who thinks that. The one I was working yesterday read "Cooling- 37.2°C" in one saloon and it was incredibly stuffy even with the available windows open. Awful things to work in warm weather.

 

[Andyh82]

Every summer this comes up with 158s. I'll never know why they haven't simply ditched the air conditioning and installed extra opening windows.

Or ditched the air conditioning and installed completely new air conditioning

Like others have said, this discussion comes around every year, and it probably gets worse every year as regional services now have a mix of non air con/air con trains (with the introduction of 185,195 etc) whereas at one time you just didn’t expect air con on a regional service as nothing pretty much had it

 

[mmh]

I was on a TFW 158 with failed aircon a few days ago. I thought the guard who got on swapping with another at Chester might have been exaggerating when they said "god, it's hot on here." Sadly they weren't. Very well refurbished trains, but hellish sweatboxes. Of course the guard had the luxury of staying in the rear cab, so the passengers just sweated away. No thought to opening the emergency fanlights, it seems. Typical TFW.

 

[Kite159]

Even the AC on the SWR sprinters is struggling, noticed a triple 159 with all the windows open earlier tonight.

Although the AC on the 195s had failed on a couple services yesterday