Have electric vehicles been "oversold" to the detriment of public transport, walking and cycling?

[Roast Veg]

Or as the late Professor David McKay liked to say "If everybody does a little, only a little will get done". Climate change is not something that can be addressed by not leaving TV on standby.

As it happens I don't like leaving the TV on standby - the capacitor whine is too loud!

 

[The Ham]

Or as the late Professor David McKay liked to say "If everybody does a little, only a little will get done". Climate change is not something that can be addressed by not leaving TV on standby.

Indeed, and whilst not leaving a TV on standby is something that we do the carbon impact of that is tiny compared to other things that as a country we should be looking at dealing with as a much bigger priority; that being reducing our high carbon travel options.

In a similar vein, for many flying isn't a significant issue (again if they don't do it then that's better than flying).

Currently the best steps to carbon reduction are actual steps and other measures to reduce the amount that they use their cars. As whilst having an EV is likely to lower a person's emissions the more that they can walk and cycle the better it is.

There was an article about cycles manufactur carbon emissions and if you buy a cycle and use it for about 500 miles instead of a car (diesel) then it's stopped enough emissions to build it. For an EV that's probably double that amount.

However, even at 2 miles a weekday, that's only about 2 years of commuting to better an EV (and a mile each way and it's probably just as fast to walk by the time you allow for locking up your bike at one end).

 

[ashkeba]

However, even at 2 miles a weekday, that's only about 2 years of commuting to better an EV (and a mile each way and it's probably just as fast to walk by the time you allow for locking up your bike at one end).

A mile takes about 6 minutes to bike and at least 15 to walk brisk. Who takes 9 minutes to lock a bike?

Returning to the title, why are electric vehicles being over sold instead of promoting walking, cycling, bus, train and so on?

 

[Bletchleyite]

A mile takes about 6 minutes to bike and at least 15 to walk brisk. Who takes 9 minutes to lock a bike?

Takes a couple of minutes to get it out of the garage and lock with several locks at a station, plus the extra time of walking from the cycle parking area to the station entrance if not directly adjacent. I'd probably say the "break even point" is about a mile though, two would almost certainly be quicker by bike. Does depend on the area, though, sometimes there are shortcuts permissible on foot but not by bike, and to tip it the other way some roads are awkward and slow to cross on foot.

It's apparently 1.5 miles from my house to Bletchley station, I would typically allow 20 minutes to cycle it (including getting a ticket from the TVM and getting to the platform) but 30 to walk, for what it's worth.

 

[bspahh]

From https://twitter.com/matvenn/status/1442182618271805446
"Blocking off the whole pavement so you can charge your SUV"

 

[DustyBin]

From https://twitter.com/matvenn/status/1442182618271805446

This is increasingly going to be a problem unless a solution is found (there have been some good suggestions in this thread).

 

[Bletchleyite]

Parked on double yellows so already illegal.

 

[Swanny200]

The Dutch were wanting to trial a system where every 2nd kerbstone could be used, utilising underground cables and you could lift the kerbstone to reveal a charging point, however it was pointed out quick enough that as soon as it rained, it would cause a problem, installing it in street furniture here like bollards and lamp posts would be an option but would have to be quite high up as can you imagine with the flooding that we sometimes get.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

From https://twitter.com/matvenn/status/1442182618271805446
"Blocking off the whole pavement so you can charge your SUV"

Near Catford Bridge by any chance...?

 

[gswindale]

One of our near neighbours runs a cable across the pavement to charge up something on their "dog grooming" van. They have one of those rubber ramp things for it to run through to allow you to walk/push a pushchair etc. over it without tripping up. Seems to work ok.

 

[gg1]

Near Catford Bridge by any chance...?

Mortlake:

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.467...4!1s9FNyiiLoVW-tBTI9zOsNog!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

 

[Bletchleyite]

One of our near neighbours runs a cable across the pavement to charge up something on their "dog grooming" van. They have one of those rubber ramp things for it to run through to allow you to walk/push a pushchair etc. over it without tripping up. Seems to work ok.

Not great for wheelchair users, though.

One cheapish option would be for the Council to cut grooves in the pavement in which cables could be run.

 

[HSTEd]

Or a swing out metal pole that carries the cable over the footway and drops it on the car

 

[AM9]

Or a swing out metal pole that carries the cable over the footway and drops it on the car

That would be a) unsightly and b) a safety hazard. Residential streets are not F1 pit lanes.

 

[Bald Rick]

The answer is simple, and it will be charging points on small pedestals every 10-12 metres on the pavement. Someone will make a fair few quid installing them.

 

[ashkeba]

That would be a) unsightly and b) a safety hazard. Residential streets are not F1 pit lanes.

How is it an unacceptable safety hazard when there are still fuel ses on poles above roads?

 

[AM9]

How is it an unacceptable safety hazard when there are still fuel ses on poles above roads?

Please explain what are "fuel ses" and can you show me an example of one?

 

[trebor79]

How is it an unacceptable safety hazard when there are still fuel ses on poles above roads?

Please explain what are "fuel ses" and can you show me an example of one?

I think he's referring to old fashioned petrol stations where the fuel is pumped in pipes over the road/petrol station bay and then into a usually quite long flexible hose for delivery.
There used to be two such petrol stations on Galgate in Barnard Castle, but I think they've both closed in the past decade or so.
I've seen a similar thing at airfields. On in particular has a 20 foot or so long metal pipe which swivels off the corner of a building, probably 30 feet high, and the a very long hose dropping down from it,you use the hose to pull the rigid pipe onto position.

 

[AM9]

I think he's referring to old fashioned petrol stations where the fuel is pumped in pipes over the road/petrol station bay and then into a usually quite long flexible hose for delivery.
There used to be two such petrol stations on Galgate in Barnard Castle, but I think they've both closed in the past decade or so.
I've seen a similar thing at airfields. On in particular has a 20 foot or so long metal pipe which swivels off the corner of a building, probably 30 feet high, and the a very long hose dropping down from it,you use the hose to pull the rigid pipe onto position.

If that is what was meant, then I doubt that would be allowed on safety grounds let alone the aesthetics of obstructing a public footpath.

 

[Swanny200]

Yes, we are all aware of the Not In My Back Yard people who will object to wind turbines, solar panels or their next door neighbour having a new roof 1 shade lighter than theirs, there are quite a few of them and that alone will stop the likes of overhead charging stations, Inductive charging is a thing and BMW were looking at it for their 7 series, think your mobile phone wireless charging but on a bigger scale, again I don't know what happens to said inductive charging pads when hit by rain, let alone a flood, I could probably take a guess though.

 

[ashkeba]

Yes, it was "hoses" that became "ses". This site's editor often deletes letters and I do not see all of them.

If that is what was meant, then I doubt that would be allowed on safety grounds let alone the aesthetics of obstructing a public footpath.

It is no more obstruction than a tree branch high over a footpath, electric cables already pass above footpaths and aesthetics are not a valid reason to deny permission in many areas if it is not a conservation area or near some listed building.

I think posts are much more of a safety problem, with limited vision people colliding with them as they try to step off the road after crossing it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes, we are all aware of the Not In My Back Yard people who will object to wind turbines, solar panels or their next door neighbour having a new roof 1 shade lighter than theirs, there are quite a few of them and that alone will stop the likes of overhead charging stations, Inductive charging is a thing and BMW were looking at it for their 7 series, think your mobile phone wireless charging but on a bigger scale, again I don't know what happens to said inductive charging pads when hit by rain, let alone a flood, I could probably take a guess though.

Inductive charging pads were used successfully for the MK electric bus trial, they are not new. Flooding would be an issue as for any electrical device including street lighting, but most streets do not flood, the places that do are typically the ones that usually do due to being in a dip or similar.

They are however likely to be an expensive solution to the issue when cables connected to an item of street furniture (rather than across the pavement) would work.

 

[AM9]

Yes, it was "hoses" that became "ses". This site's editor often deletes letters and I do not see all of them.

It is no more obstruction than a tree branch high over a footpath, electric cables already pass above footpaths and aesthetics are not a valid reason to deny permission in many areas if it is not a conservation area or near some listed building.

I think posts are much more of a safety problem, with limited vision people colliding with them as they try to step off the road after crossing it.

I don't have a view on posts/ground level access but I can see plenty of safety issues with cables that come down to ground level from a beam/post. Trees of course have the benefit of grandfather rights, but safety even trumps them.
The issue of EV owners' vehicle charging where there is no accessible private land I think will become a mix of local off-street parking with (fast) charging bays and managing charging at destinations, (shops/public car parks). EVs will need everybody to make some changes, some more than others though.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't have a view but I can see plenty of safety issues with cables that come down to ground level from a beam/post. Trees of course have the benefit of grandfather rights, but safety even trumps them.
The issue of EV owners' vehicle charging where there is no accessible private land I think will become a mix of local off-street parking with (fast) charging bays and managing charging at destinations, (shops/public car parks). EVs will need everybody to make some changes, some more than others though.

One thing worthy of consideration in large areas of relatively cheap terraced housing (so most cities outside of London) is purchasing some of it to knock down and create off-road charging bays. One end-terrace house plus its yard would probably give you 6-8 nose-in bays (such houses tend to be quite narrow facing the street but usually go back a fairly long way).

You would need some form of enforcement to ensure they were properly used, though, and people didn't block them with caravans etc, as such housing estates are often "rough" estates and tend to have, for some reason I've never quite understood, issues with "antisocial" parking of vehicles in poor condition.

 

[AM9]

Inductive charging pads were used successfully for the MK electric bus trial, they are not new. Flooding would be an issue as for any electrical device including street lighting, but most streets do not flood, the places that do are typically the ones that usually do due to being in a dip or similar.

They are however likely to be an expensive solution to the issue when cables connected to an item of street furniture (rather than across the pavement) would work.

There are inherent power losses in inductive charging though and it is likely to result in higher charges per KWh than with direct connections.

 

[Domh245]

but I can see plenty of safety issues with cables that come down to ground level from a beam/post

I'm curious as to what some of these issues are - I can see how operationally such a system may be nightmarish but I can't think of (m)any risks that can't be managed down to an acceptable level?

 

[gg1]

I'm curious as to what some of these issues are - I can see how operationally such a system may be nightmarish but I can't think of (m)any risks that can't be managed down to an acceptable level?

You've basically got a weighted cable dangling down onto the road. There is very obvious risk to cyclists, parking a car without hitting the cable would be virtually impossible, and at times of high wind the cable would swing risking injury to pedestrians and damage to passing vehicles, in short the idea is unworkable.

 

[Ediswan]

You've basically got a weighted cable dangling down onto the road. There is very obvious risk to cyclists, parking a car without hitting the cable would be virtually impossible, and at times of high wind the cable would swing risking injury to pedestrians and damage to passing vehicles, in short the idea is unworkable.

The idea was that the support would only be swung out over the road when there was a vehicle there to be chargerd. That covers cyclists and parking. I doubt it is beyond the wit of man to figure out a way of securing the free end when not in use.

 

[gg1]

The idea was that the support would only be swung out over the road when there was a vehicle there to be chargerd. That covers cyclists and parking. I doubt it is beyond the wit of man to figure out a way of securing the free end when not in use.

That relies on the great British public being responsible enough to move the arm back and then secure it in place. Too many will take the lazy option of just unplugging and moving it enough so they can drive off.

For evidence, look at the recent experiments with e-Scooter hire in some cities where many were just randomly dumped on pavements when the user was done with them.

 

[bspahh]

The idea was that the support would only be swung out over the road when there was a vehicle there to be charged. That covers cyclists and parking. I doubt it is beyond the wit of man to figure out a way of securing the free end when not in use.

The supports would be ugly enough that people will try to hide them by growing a hedge around them. That means that the supports have to be robust enough to withstand a battering from the vegetation in the wind, and not get damaged when someone trims the vegetation with power tools.